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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Edmunds


DETROIT — General Motors is developing a high-performance electric all-wheel-drive system for the next generation of Cadillac V-Series sedans and crossovers that could trickle down to GM's other rear-drive models.

Dave Sullivan, an analyst at AutoPacific, told Edmunds that other GM candidates would include Alpha-platform-based vehicles such as the Cadillac ATS and Chevrolet Camaro, and possibly a Corvette derivative.

In many parts of the United States (snow country), all-wheel drive has become a must-have for high-performance luxury car buyers, and Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Porsche are ahead of the game with their AWD-equipped RS, AMG, M and Turbo models. Cadillac, however, lags behind this trend, having just introduced the 455-horsepower ATS-V and 640-hp CTS-V, both rear-wheel-drive sedans.

Cadillac is also lagging in its offering of electrified fuel-efficient models. Its ELR plug-in hybrid (basically a Cadillac coupe version of the Chevrolet Volt) has been a sales embarrassment, while its German competitors offer multiple electrified models, including many sedans and the supersexy BMW i8 and Porsche 918 Spyder supercars. Acura is also ahead. The 2016 Acura NSX, which was just introduced at the 2015 Detroit Auto Show, is a midengine high-performance two-seater with electric all-wheel drive.

An electric all-wheel-drive system, known in the industry by the acronym e-AWD, can solve these two problems for GM and potentially boost fuel economy in many future vehicles.

However, the system GM desires is many years in the future.

Joe Slenvak, director of powertrain electrification for North America at Robert Bosch Group LLC, told Edmunds that adding electric all-wheel drive to the front wheels of a rear-drive car has challenges.

"When you put the electric axle drive in the front, you have a lot of crossmembers and things that are in the cradle that you have to work around. It would be a little bit hard to do (but) I think you could do it," Slenvak said.

Slenvak said a vehicle could be retrofitted to add that system. He would not say if Bosch is developing an electric all-wheel-drive system for GM's rear-drive cars.

And when asked on the floor of the Detroit auto show, the new president of Cadillac Johan de Nysschen confirmed that retrofitting such a system to existing cars is not practical. Platforms must be designed for it from the beginning, he told us.

In other words, this isn't something we will see until the next generation of Cadillacs are engineered. And that's not any time soon, considering the ATS debuted just two years ago, and the CTS is in its first year of production.

Edmunds says: Electric all-wheel drive has proven its worth to a variety of manufacturers. GM's applications will be welcome, however late.

Looks like Cadillac won't be far behind for Electric AWD for high performance vehicles
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I feel like it could be even simpler to add. Just add an electric motor to the front drive shift and mechanically disconnect it from the rear drive shift. Quick retrofit.

The interesting thing is if they can integrate an electric motor into the E-Diff.
 

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Wanna bet that's where it debuts on.
Clearly. Zora is the perfect application for it.

Application in FR will definitely hurt chassis balance... but I wonder if they could maybe engineer the engine compartment out of lighter materials and lay off the lightweighting out back? Won't be a huge offset, but it could still help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Clearly. Zora is the perfect application for it.

Application in FR will definitely hurt chassis balance... but I wonder if they could maybe engineer the engine compartment out of lighter materials and lay off the lightweighting out back? Won't be a huge offset, but it could still help.
Depends on the weights. There's going to be a battery pack in the trunk. Maybe they'll offset each other.
 

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Depends on the weights. There's going to be a battery pack in the trunk. Maybe they'll offset each other.
Did I miss that in the article?

I suspect this has been planned/in the works for a while. Cadillac/Ed Welburn have been pitching the central tunnel as a likely new aesthetic in new cars.

Would not be surprised if they used this and somehow integrated it into a Voltec 3.0 system.
 

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This will be front wheel drive cuv chassis and the AWD component will become battery motor for the rear wheels.

This will not be rear drive chassis and front wheel drive battery motors for quite some time......until it fits easily on the front end.

Presently there are battery powered hubs available as per autoline after hours shows in the past...but they do add unsprung weight which is not good for a sporting vehicles handling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Did I miss that in the article?

I suspect this has been planned/in the works for a while. Cadillac/Ed Welburn have been pitching the central tunnel as a likely new aesthetic in new cars.

Would not be surprised if they used this and somehow integrated it into a Voltec 3.0 system.
There's nowhere else to put it.
 

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Would they need large batteries? For High Performance applications couldn't they generate the electricity on demand from the engine(455hp-650hp) and direct it to front wheel motors. That would reduce horsepower while AWD is used(cornering,etc) but there would not be a large weight penalty. I'd take 50 less hp(guess, I'm not an engineer) in a corner if my front wheels can help pull me out of it, not to mention that I could drive the vehicle easier in snow and rain.
 

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**** yeah!!!

10/10 would buy an AWD V Series or AWD Corvette.
Exactly. Most of the luxury cars on lots here in Chicago you can't even find in RWD. Benz, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc... I thought it was dealers that just ordered the cars with AWD but I remember I went on the Lexus website and built a car and as soon as I put in my zip it wouldn't even let me have the RWD option. This was a while ago.

#sidenote How come they can't use the AWD system on the ATS4 and CTS4 on the V-models??? Pardon the ignorance but I really don't understand that one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Exactly. Most of the luxury cars on lots here in Chicago you can't even find in RWD. Benz, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc... I thought it was dealers that just ordered the cars with AWD but I remember I went on the Lexus website and built a car and as soon as I put in my zip it wouldn't even let me have the RWD option. This was a while ago.

#sidenote How come they can't use the AWD system on the ATS4 and CTS4 on the V-models??? Pardon the ignorance but I really don't understand that one.
Better fuel economy. Better handling, the ATS4 has a higher ride height and no MRC b/c of AWD. Also, I don't think their current system can handle the massive power of either the ATS-V or CTS-V
 

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There's nowhere else to put it.
Down the center of the car, like Volt. Could layer some in the trunk, but I don't think all or even most would be back there.

An AWD Camaro? :)
Meeeeeow.

Would they need large batteries? For High Performance applications couldn't they generate the electricity on demand from the engine(455hp-650hp) and direct it to front wheel motors. That would reduce horsepower while AWD is used(cornering,etc) but there would not be a large weight penalty. I'd take 50 less hp(guess, I'm not an engineer) in a corner if my front wheels can help pull me out of it, not to mention that I could drive the vehicle easier in snow and rain.
If they could design a very lightweight, intelligent system that only put down power for launches, hard acceleration, temporary power boost functions, and to reduce oversteer, that'd be all I'd be looking for in most performance applications. I'd imagine their performance would increase pretty sharply over RWD-exclusive platforms.

Exactly. Most of the luxury cars on lots here in Chicago you can't even find in RWD. Benz, BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc... I thought it was dealers that just ordered the cars with AWD but I remember I went on the Lexus website and built a car and as soon as I put in my zip it wouldn't even let me have the RWD option. This was a while ago.

#sidenote How come they can't use the AWD system on the ATS4 and CTS4 on the V-models??? Pardon the ignorance but I really don't understand that one.
ATS-V can probably get AWD already if they're giving the CTS Vsport AWD. It's pretty much the same motor for our intents and purposes and has only a marginal power increase over the Vsport's LF3.

CTS-V... the torque would probably obliterate any transaxle they have/have planned that could possibly fit or work in CTS.

630lb-ft of torque is a pretty huge and exclusive number that I can't imagine them designing for reliable use in many other cars.

Better fuel economy. Better handling, the ATS4 has a higher ride height and no MRC b/c of AWD. Also, I don't think their current system can handle the massive power of either the ATS-V or CTS-V
This. Also, no MRC/AWD is bull****.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Down the center of the car, like Volt. Could layer some in the trunk, but I don't think all or even most would be back there.
Where are you going to put the drive shaft & exhaust pipes? The Volt's pack is too high to fit a FWD vehicle, it compromises space too much. Best bet is a 48V system.
 

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Where are you going to put the drive shaft & exhaust pipes? The Volt's pack is too high to fit a FWD vehicle, it compromises space too much. Best bet is a 48V system.
or maybe something like a KERS system with super capacitors and a "overboost" option BUT not a constant E 4WD IE track YES snow NO
because with 600 BHP to even NOTICE the FWD part 48V and 25 BHP will NOT cut it
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
or maybe something like a KERS system with super capacitors and a "overboost" option BUT not a constant E 4WD IE track YES snow NO
because with 600 BHP to even NOTICE the FWD part 48V and 25 BHP will NOT cut it
KERS is nice but I think they would like something with longer availability the a couple seconds. That's why KERS is used on motors in addition to the normal engine.

48V is the electrical system not the power of the electric motor. Volts and Watts are not the same. The electric motors would be somewhere between 100-200hp
 
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