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33 MSRP, 27 OTD, I'd pay an extra 8 grand for a short range midsize EV...That's pretty close to cost neutral IMO. 80mi / day $2.50 a gallon @ 29mpg avg, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, carry the 1 and it'll pay for itself in somewhere around 5 years maybe less if gas goes up.
You need a new job so you can get some vacation and holidays off with the family.
 

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You need a new job so you can get some vacation and holidays off with the family.
Ha...To hell with taking time off...I'd rather work, love what I do as a mid level systems/data analyst. Where am I gonna go anyway? I've been WFH for the last year and some change.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
33 MSRP, 27 OTD, I'd pay an extra 8 grand for a short range midsize EV...That's pretty close to cost neutral IMO. 80mi / day $2.50 a gallon @ 29mpg avg, 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year, carry the 1 and it'll pay for itself in somewhere around 5 years maybe less if gas goes up.
For that extra $8,000 at 29 MPG and $2.50 gallon, you can drive 92,800 "for free".

Assuming electricity usage, in an EV, at ~$3.00/day that would add another $4,000 or 46,400 miles.

So you would need to drive 139,200 just to BREAK EVEN.

Obviously unknowns are things like, residual values, maintenance costs, and future fuel or electricity costs, but those are the approximate numbers as we know them to be today.
 
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Ha...To hell with taking time off...I'd rather work, love what I do as a mid level systems/data analyst. Where am I gonna go anyway? I've been WFH for the last year and some change.
So I just saw this, (after) my back of the bar napkin math in the WFH model, how long is it going to take you to drive 139,200 miles? At my current WFH run-rate, it would be about 25 years for me.

Taking this a step further, with the obvious 'stickiness' of the WFH model, many of the "white collar" that are more apt to buy more expensive vehicles, that makes the break-even hurdle for almost everyone unrealistic.

In the last year, between the wife and I combined we spent about $550 in fuel costs, for me as the world is today, EV's are a "cheaper alternative" to something that has almost no financial burden to me.

- About as beneficial as a cheaper design of dress pants...................

For that extra $8,000 at 29 MPG and $2.50 gallon, you can drive 92,800 "for free".

Assuming electricity usage, in an EV, at ~$3.00/day that would add another $4,000 or 46,400 miles.

So you would need to drive 139,200 just to BREAK EVEN.

Obviously unknows are things like, residual values, maintenance costs, and future fuel or electricity costs, but those are the approximate numbers as we know them to be today.
 

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So I just saw this, (after) my back of the bar napkin math in the WFH model, how long is it going to take you to drive 139,200 miles? At my current WFH run-rate, it would be about 25 years for me.

Taking this a step further, with the obvious 'stickiness' of the WFH model, many of the "white collar" that are more apt to buy more expensive vehicles, that makes the break-even hurdle for almost everyone unrealistic.

In the last year, between the wife and I combined we spent about $550 in fuel costs, for me as the world is today, EV's are a "cheaper alternative" to something that has almost no financial burden to me.

- About as beneficial as a cheaper design of dress pants...................
Hmm...funny you mention dress pants, I think that is going to be the post pandemic boon. Dress Pants/Casual Slacks/Bigger Jeans/etc are going to go like toilet paper once folks have to wear them again.

Anyway, post pandemic, I fully intend on resuming my daily commute...I need the clear break between work/home, **** has been blending together.

Look at it this way, either you're paying big oil/OPEC or you're paying the energy conglomerates in the US and a US Automaker - Tesla (and kinda China)...where would you rather see your money go?
 

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Just when the US gets energy independent from fossil fuels by use of fracking and no longer needs to care about the middle east nearly as much as in the past, we get a president that wants to shut down fracking and move us to a "green" economy filled with bird chopping windmills and unreliable solar panels, all of which are made in China.

Next, the US will force an entire industry to electric cars, running up the price of materials. All this will do is make gas cars less expensive and cheaper to operate in comparison. The inevitable "solution" from the EV proponents will be tax the living hell out of gas so they can subsidize the EV market. The automakers will be fine. The consumer will be one screwed here as they will be forced to pay move for their vehicles and buy energy from their local utility monopoly to power their car.

All this is done to stop global warming, which is not happening or at a minimum is easily mitigated. Amazing.


Meanwhile, the elites will fly their private jets over your part of the county and laugh at your stupidity for voting for this.
 

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European Union has already imposed harsh C02 rule & regulations that impose heavy 34 billion euro fines from from January 1st 2021 on European carmakers that sell cars ICE powered cars, EU car sales have plummeted as a result the high C02 based fines, and the covid lockdowns is another big blow, and now 18% rise in battery costs it will be a nobody is buying a new car buying Euro zone. Can see cars becoming the preserve of the rich few in the future, they don't even have back-up factories that produce the computer chips in cars.

I can see Europeans holding on to there old clunkers putting a million miles on the clock of thier diesel cars rather than very expensive EV's in big numbers as diesel/gasoline new car sales plummet. Glad GM got out of Europe poor ole Ford will struggle the lucrative Transit van vehicle sales are all that probably keeps them in Europe, van have got a big boost in sales from covid lockdown home delivery services, they pulled the plug on the Ford Mondeo (US Ford Fusion) this week because of a big fall off in sales last year, without the heavily EU fined diesel engine, a big Mondeo with a gutless 1.0L 3-pot ecoboost is a Micky Mouse joke.
 

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Look at it this way, either you're paying big oil/OPEC or you're paying the energy conglomerates in the US and a US Automaker - Tesla (and kinda China)...where would you rather see your money go?
Maybe spend some money on setting up a more independent hydrogen infrastructure in the US that is less dependant or Saudi oil or Chinese rare earth. Wonder what happened to hydrogen polymer micro beads fuel cells tech that was being developed, that could be filled up like gas in seconds and was less volatile than gasoline the could be even used in older cars like an old T-Bird v8 and all that comes out the tailpipe is water, a 50's T-Bird would be cleaner than a hybrid Prius, only mod is collector tank for polymer.
 

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All this is done to stop global warming, which is not happening or at a minimum is easily mitigated. Amazing.
+1
As Jim Inhofe once said, the idea that global warming (aka globaloney warming) can and should be stopped is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. Almost all government regulation promoting electric vehicles is predicated on this hoax.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
The whole "you gotta drive XXXX to cover the extra cost" argument is dumb. Always will be. If that people cared that much we'd all be driving the lowest trim of every single car but....we arent.
Yet you didn't buy a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid?............................

Yup, "dumb" then why did the inferior Cruze outsell the Volt by 10 to 20 to 1 over the course of its existence?

And your "If that people cared that much we'd all be driving the lowest trim of every single car" is illogical, and actually proves just the opposite, people are willing to spend money.... wait for it, are you ready; for things they "value".

Hmm...funny you mention dress pants, I think that is going to be the post pandemic boon. Dress Pants/Casual Slacks/Bigger Jeans/etc are going to go like toilet paper once folks have to wear them again.

Anyway, post pandemic, I fully intend on resuming my daily commute...I need the clear break between work/home, **** has been blending together.

Look at it this way, either you're paying big oil/OPEC or you're paying the energy conglomerates in the US and a US Automaker - Tesla (and kinda China)...where would you rather see your money go?
I don't see things as a "spike" it will be a gradual return to normal and some jobs/department have been changed forever. Historically, our company, has been very "anti-work from home" as in, no you can't, (unless it's nights or weekends) any way we are in the process of selling one of our offices that is near one of our plants, for the people that need space in the office, they are being moved into the offices at the plant.

I do need to shop for some more pajama pants though.................

Thank god we bought a big house with a nice office, finished basement, and a desk area in the kitchen, all three of us work at home with ease; I see people in meeting and conferences, sitting in their bedroom, laundry room, hallway or closet, comical!
 

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The whole "you gotta drive XXXX to cover the extra cost" argument is dumb. Always will be. If that people cared that much we'd all be driving the lowest trim of every single car but....we arent.
That simply is not true.

Just when the US gets energy independent from fossil fuels by use of fracking and no longer needs to care about the middle east nearly as much as in the past, we get a president that wants to shut down fracking and move us to a "green" economy filled with bird chopping windmills and unreliable solar panels, all of which are made in China.

Next, the US will force an entire industry to electric cars, running up the price of materials. All this will do is make gas cars less expensive and cheaper to operate in comparison. The inevitable "solution" from the EV proponents will be tax the living hell out of gas so they can subsidize the EV market. The automakers will be fine. The consumer will be one screwed here as they will be forced to pay move for their vehicles and buy energy from their local utility monopoly to power their car.

All this is done to stop global warming, which is not happening or at a minimum is easily mitigated. Amazing.



Meanwhile, the elites will fly their private jets over your part of the county and laugh at your stupidity for voting for this.
No less an authority on just about nothing, the haughty John Fitzgeral Kerry, says our efforts are, as Captain Picard on Star Trek said about resisting the BORG, futile.

WASHINGTON — President Biden’s climate czar, John Kerry, admitted Wednesday that the US reducing its emissions to zero wouldn’t make much of a difference in the global climate change fight — before pushing domestic manufacturing of electric cars and solar panels in favor of energy production.

Kerry’s remarks were made ahead of Biden’s signing of a host of executive actions on Wednesday pushing his $2 trillion Green New Deal-inspired climate agenda.

“He knows Paris alone is not enough,” Kerry told reporters at a White House press briefing, referring to Biden re-entering the US in the Paris Climate Agreement in one of his first acts as president.

“Not when almost 90 percent of all of the planet’s global emissions come from outside of US borders. We could go to zero tomorrow and the problem isn’t solved,” Kerry conceded.

The former secretary of state, now Biden’s climate envoy, acknowledged that it would be difficult to bring the world’s top polluters to the table, including China, which produces 30 percent of the world’s carbon emissions
.


European Union has already imposed harsh C02 rule & regulations that impose heavy 34 billion euro fines from from January 1st 2021 on European carmakers that sell cars ICE powered cars, EU car sales have plummeted as a result the high C02 based fines, and the covid lockdowns is another big blow, and now 18% rise in battery costs it will be a nobody is buying a new car buying Euro zone. Can see cars becoming the preserve of the rich few in the future, they don't even have back-up factories that produce the computer chips in cars.

I can see Europeans holding on to there old clunkers putting a million miles on the clock of thier diesel cars rather than very expensive EV's in big numbers as diesel/gasoline new car sales plummet. Glad GM got out of Europe poor ole Ford will struggle the lucrative Transit van vehicle sales are all that probably keeps them in Europe, van have got a big boost in sales from covid lockdown home delivery services, they pulled the plug on the Ford Mondeo (US Ford Fusion) this week because of a big fall off in sales last year, without the heavily EU fined diesel engine, a big Mondeo with a gutless 1.0L 3-pot ecoboost is a Micky Mouse joke.
EU is a perfect example of suicide by a bunch of pointy-headed self-righteous ignorant stupid imbeciles. A lot of people buy this globaloney warming BS hook line and sinker. And anchor and boat.
It certainly made algore wealthy beyond his dreams. Worth in 2001: one million dollars. Net today, around one hundred million. Another carnival barker.

Yet you didn't buy a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid?............................

Yup, "dumb" then why did the inferior Cruze outsell the Volt by 10 to 20 to 1 over the course of its existence?

And your "If that people cared that much we'd all be driving the lowest trim of every single car" is illogical, and actually proves just the opposite, people are willing to spend money.... wait for it, are you ready; for things they "value".



I don't see things as a "spike" it will be a gradual return to normal and some jobs/department have been changed forever. Historically, our company, has been very "anti-work from home" as in, no you can't, (unless it's nights or weekends) any way we are in the process of selling one of our offices that is near one of our plants, for the people that need space in the office, they are being moved into the offices at the plant.

I do need to shop for some more pajama pants though.................

Thank god we bought a big house with a nice office, finished basement, and a desk area in the kitchen, all three of us work at home with ease; I see people in meeting and conferences, sitting in their bedroom, laundry room, hallway or closet, comical!
Indeed, Ed. Oversimplifying to absurdity the incredibly complex gets you nowhere fast. Gas or electric.
 

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Yet you didn't buy a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid?............................

Yup, "dumb" then why did the inferior Cruze outsell the Volt by 10 to 20 to 1 over the course of its existence?
I didn't buy a hybrid because the stock was incredibly low and I couldn't find one that I wanted within a 1000 mile radius. It was not a price issue at all.

It is dumb. Absolutely no one, except the very few who want to nitpick and badger hybrid/ev owners, do an actual cost benefit analysis to see how much money they're saving. For everyone else, they see themselves stopping less at stations, paying less each month for gas and feeling better about it. You don't break down the price per trim per mile driven right? Nope. You make a price point you want to buy the car at. If a hybrid fits in that price point, you buy it.

And another shocker, the Cruze outsold the Volt because it was cheaper. Far cheaper. People didn't value it more. They just needed a car.
 

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I didn't buy a hybrid because the stock was incredibly low and I couldn't find one that I wanted within a 1000 mile radius. It was not a price issue at all.

It is dumb. Absolutely no one, except the very few who want to nitpick and badger hybrid/ev owners, do an actual cost benefit analysis to see how much money they're saving. For everyone else, they see themselves stopping less at stations, paying less each month for gas and feeling better about it. You don't break down the price per trim per mile driven right? Nope. You make a price point you want to buy the car at. If a hybrid fits in that price point, you buy it.

And another shocker, the Cruze outsold the Volt because it was cheaper. Far cheaper. People didn't value it more. They just needed a car.
Exactly. Buy what meets your needs and makes you happy. Yet some "experts" on this site will count the number of "options" on the window sticker and divide by the $$$ and tell you which truck is better...
 
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Discussion Starter #37
It is dumb. Absolutely no one, except the very few who want to nitpick and badger hybrid/ev owners, do an actual cost benefit analysis to see how much money they're saving. For everyone else, they see themselves stopping less at stations, paying less each month for gas and feeling better about it. You don't break down the price per trim per mile driven right? Nope. You make a price point you want to buy the car at. If a hybrid fits in that price point, you buy it.

And another shocker, the Cruze outsold the Volt because it was cheaper. Far cheaper. People didn't value it more. They just needed a car.
So the people that want to "nitpick and badger" run the numbers and illustrate it doesn't make sense, the rest of the people just buy the one that is cheaper.............. (your words, not mine and I agree, 100%) 😝

And the reason people don't break down the price per trim per mile is because there isn't a delta there, the "cost per mile" doesn't change! What changes, is the "cost per month" and they most certainly do weigh; LS = $250/month, LT = $325/month and LTZ = $400/month. The cost/benefit is the options vs. monthly cost, all 3 are going to use ~$100/month in gas. (I did this myself last month; 2LT vs. 3LT vs. RS.
 
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Discussion Starter #38
Exactly. Buy what meets your needs and makes you happy. Yet some "experts" on this site will count the number of "options" on the window sticker and divide by the $$$ and tell you which truck is better...
My Sierra has a heated steering wheel, my F-150 didn't.................
;)
 

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My Sierra has a heated steering wheel, my F-150 didn't.................
;)
Nice! Did you factor in the fuel economy hit from using the steering wheel heater function into your price per mile calculations? ;)

Just kiddin' of course...
 

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.... our efforts are, as Captain Picard on Star Trek said about resisting the BORG, futile......
Other way around. The Borg told Picard that, "We will assimilate you, resistance is futile."

But then the Borg were NOT able to assimilate the human race, because resistance was NOT futile.

Anyways....

Worrying about battery prices going up, and crashing the EV industry, is kind of like when old Henry Ford was cranking out Model Ts, and everybody was sure that commodity prices were going to go up. That steel and gasoline would just become too expensive. That's why the auto industry disappeared, and we still rely on horses for transportation.

We don't? Nevermind.
 
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