Driving the Toyota Mirai, the most futuristic car you can buy

3574 Views 35 Replies 21 Participants Last post by jpd80, Jan 17, 2015

BlackGTP

Discussion Starter · Jan 16, 2015

Driving the Toyota Mirai, the most futuristic car you can buy
By Steve Siler
January 15, 2015
Motoramic

Go ahead. Call it ugly. Toyota doesn’t care.

People called the Prius ugly, too, when it was first launched (still do, actually), and it went on to become one of America’s best-selling cars. With the Prius, Toyota knew it had a game-changing technology on its hands, and to make it noticeable to its customers — who didn’t tend to pay much attention to cars, even when 50 mpg fuel economy was on the spec chart — Toyota had to make it noticeable-looking. People noticed. Next thing we knew, the Prius’ doorstop-chic styling became a point of pride. Toyota took a risk on ugly, and it paid off.

Toyota is attempting to perform the same trick with the 2016 Mirai. Only now, it’s working with hydrogen, not hybrids. We explicated the reasons for the Mirai’s various styling elements when the Mirai was introduced last year at the Los Angeles Auto Show, so we won’t bother repeating ourselves, but even after spending time with it, we’re not sure we’ll ever find it anything but jarring. Time will tell if Toyota can do the same trick with the Mirai that it pulled off with the Prius, but Toyota is banking on it, and banking even bigger on the technology and infrastructure becoming the next revolution in driving.

More at link: https://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motor...ost-futuristic-car-you-can-buy-152757849.html

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

BlackGTP

Discussion Starter · #2 · Jan 16, 2015

Should be retitled "Driving the Toyota Mirai, the most UGLY car you can buy".

Can't Toyota see the obvious? Yes the Prius is ugly but has a kind of appealing nerdiness that I can see people being attracted to (I don't like it), the Mirai is just ugly. This blows away just about any other ugly car I can think of. Makes the Aztek seem pretty.

Either way - I haven't heard much about GM's hydrogen vehicles. I drove the hydrogen Equinox several years ago and it felt pretty polished and production ready.

Reactions: 1

paul8488

· #3 · Jan 16, 2015

BlackGTP said:
Either way - I haven't heard much about GM's hydrogen vehicles. I drove the hydrogen Equinox several years ago and it felt pretty polished and production ready.

I'll say it again, GM is a 5/8 company. They can manage probably 5/8 of their models, their marketing, their technology, their dealerships... they will hit a homerun and then swing and miss right after. It would seem that they are trending up, but still just don't seem to be able to juggle all of their balls. I thought that having too many brands was part of the problem and a big distraction, but even with a few loped off I don't feel that they're on top of everything.

To me GM's management is the equivalent of trying to herd a troupe of 50 cats with 3 people.

Reactions: 3

sfbreh

· #4 · Jan 16, 2015

Mirai isn't ugly, it just looks like a tC. It's boring, if anything.

LetsRace

· #5 · Jan 16, 2015

God that piece of crap is ugly.

Reactions: 1

mchicha

· #6 · Jan 16, 2015

paul8488 said:
I'll say it again, GM is a 5/8 company. They can manage probably 5/8 of their models, their marketing, their technology, their dealerships... they will hit a homerun and then swing and miss right after. It would seem that they are trending up, but still just don't seem to be able to juggle all of their balls. I thought that having too many brands was part of the problem and a big distraction, but even with a few loped off I don't feel that they're on top of everything.

To me GM's management is the equivalent of trying to herd a troupe of 50 cats with 3 people.

T
GM is still by far the leader in Hydrogen Technology. Honda is their manufacturing and commercialization partner. GM is smart. They forced Toyota's hand since the Volt has virtually spelled the death knell for the Prius as a hybrid technology.

paul8488

· #7 · Jan 16, 2015

mchicha said:
GM is still by far the leader in Hydrogen Technology. Honda is their manufacturing and commercialization partner. GM is smart.

What do you mean by leader? Better technology? Where are they keeping it? Did they forget it under a table somewhere? Better is fine and dandy, but be sure that Toyota will hammer people with the 'Hydrogen' message like they hammered people with the 'Hybrid' message. Toyota is not too shabby with marketing, and will always be remembered as the first to market with a hydrogen-powered vehicle. And you know they will milk it for all it's worth.

mchicha said:
They forced Toyota's hand since the Volt has virtually spelled the death knell for the Prius as a hybrid technology.

Seriously? Check out Volt 2014 / 2013 / % change numbers:

18,805 23,094 -18.6

I really like the Volt, but it is in no way a threat to Toyota hybrids yet. And even if it becomes one in 2 or 3 years? Toyota may very well phase out their hybrids and ramp up hydrogen over the decade for all we know. GM is focusing on building a hybrid killer when they technology is already maturing and could be headed for a decline? Brilliant!

See less See more

FJAPCRZ

· #8 · Jan 16, 2015

I saw the mirai in person at the LA Auto Show and believe me when I tell you it's way uglier in person. It may not polute the air but it polites the roads with its ugliness.

Reactions: 1

mchicha

· #9 · Jan 16, 2015

paul8488 said:
What do you mean by leader? Better technology? Where are they keeping it? Did they forget it under a table somewhere? Better is fine and dandy, but be sure that Toyota will hammer people with the 'Hydrogen' message like they hammered people with the 'Hybrid' message. Toyota is not too shabby with marketing, and will always be remembered as the first to market with a hydrogen-powered vehicle. And you know they will milk it for all it's worth.

Seriously? Check out Volt 2014 / 2013 / % change numbers:

I really like the Volt, but it is in no way a threat to Toyota hybrids yet. And even if it becomes one in 2 or 3 years? Toyota may very well phase out their hybrids and ramp up hydrogen over the decade for all we know. GM is focusing on building a hybrid killer when they technology is already maturing and could be headed for a decline? Brilliant!

A 50 electric mile volt, plus 41 mpg on generator with over 400 miles total range that can sit 5 is and costs around the current volt is not going to affect prius sales?

GM has over 3 decades of Hydrogen fuel pack technology and patents.

the small one is GM's 5th generation stack.

GM also owns all the lithium ion chemistry and all the thermo management technology and the electric drive technology in their electric vehicles. There is very very good reason GM files more patents than other manufacturers

Commercializing the technology is being done by GM through Honda. Which is clever in a way since the partnership allows GM to learn without tying up resources.

Unlike when GM had no money, this time GM has money.

Yes, Toyota has a better spin department than GM thats for sure.

See less See more

GM-Joe

· #10 · Jan 16, 2015

For Toyoda that is pretty good in the styling department, probably their best looking vehicle. But what does look nice in their showroom?

paul8488

· #11 · Jan 16, 2015 (Edited)

mchicha said:
A 50 electric mile volt, plus 41 mpg on generator with over 400 miles total range that can sit 5 is and costs around the current volt is not going to affect prius sales?

If they market, push and support it as well as the first Volt, it will be a decade before it gains any traction. I really love Voltec, and a Volt would suit me just fine, but it made nowhere near the splash it could have. I was expecting it to be a rival for HSD right out of the gate, but somehow GM sold fewer this year than last.

GM has over 3 decades of Hydrogen fuel pack technology and patents.

the small one is GM's 5th generation stack.

GM also owns all the lithium ion chemistry and all the thermo management technology and the electric drive technology in their electric vehicles. There is very very good reason GM files more patents than other manufacturers

I don't doubt that. A guy here (Buick58) had a fuel-cell Equinox as a tester years ago, and it was clear that GM knew what they were doing from a technology standpoint. But in a business that is, well, in the business of making money, having the most patents means nothing if you aren't leveraging them to get money out of people's pockets.

Commercializing the technology is being done by GM through Honda. Which is clever in a way since the partnership allows GM to learn without tying up resources.

Come on, what are people going to take away from this? You suspect they will buy a HONDA and applaud GM for their technology under the hood? Some people can't tell you what wheels drive their car, others can't tell you how many cylinders they have, and still others have no clue where there car was manufactured. From a marketing and name-recognition standpoint, GM gets nothing out of this tie-up with Honda.

Yes, Toyota has a better spin department than GM thats for sure.

I detect a hint of sarcasm, but that's the game, and GM isn't good at playing it. I quite liked the idea they had a few years back of branding their fuel-cell vehicles as GM. It was a great way to showcase what GM as a company was doing, with a familiar brand name but one that has no current cars models of its own.

All this stuff you are saying (how far ahead GM is with hydrogen) makes it all the more sad that they are totally flying under the radar as everyone's favourite ecology poster boy Toyota prepares to make big headlines with their newest revolution. I rarely applaud Toyota, and they don't have a single product that interests me (okay, their small RWD coupe maybe), but they realise the importance of being first and will benefit greatly from it.

See less See more

mchicha

· #12 · Jan 16, 2015

paul8488 said:
If they market, push and support it as well as the first Volt, it will be a decade before it gains any traction. I really love Voltec, and a Volt would suit me just fine, but it made nowhere near the splash it could have. I was expecting it to be a rival for HSD right out of the gate, but somehow GM sold fewer this year than last.

I don't doubt that. A guy here (Buick58) had a fuel-cell Equinox as a tester years ago, and it was clear that GM knew what they were doing from a technology standpoint. But in a business that is, well, in the business of making money, having the most patents means nothing if you aren't leveraging them to get money out of people's pockets.

Come on, what are people going to take away from this? You suspect they will buy a HONDA and applaud GM for their technology under the hood? Some people can't tell you what wheels drive their car, others can't tell you how many cylinders they have, and still others have no clue where there car was manufactured. From a marketing and name-recognition standpoint, GM gets nothing out of this tie-up with Honda.

I detect a hint of sarcasm, but that's the game, and GM isn't good at playing it. I quite liked the idea they had a few years back of branding their fuel-cell vehicles as GM. It was a great way to showcase what GM as a company was doing, with a familiar brand name but one that has no current cars models of its own.

All this stuff you are saying (how far ahead GM is with hydrogen) makes it all the more sad that they are totally flying under the radar as everyone's favourite ecology poster boy Toyota prepares to make big headlines with their newest revolution. I rarely applaud Toyota, and they don't have a single product that interests me (okay, their small RWD coupe maybe), but they realise the importance of being first and will benefit greatly from it.

There is an interview on Autoline that GM's Reuss spoke on their Hydrogen technology. I got the impression that GM is content to let Honda play the Hydrogen front. He also hinted that the last Honda Hydrogen leases were GM technology.

I do not know what the game plan is, but GM is playing a game here. He said something to the effect that they Hydrogen technology stacks is not necesarily being commercialized as automotive application only. So, I guess we will see.

As far as spin is concerned, GM sucks. No doubt. They could hire some political campaign people like Karl Rove, David Axelrod and James Carville. I think people from the Rove Carville arena could really help GM is media and message manipulation since its a fantastic engineering firm that just cannot sell lemonade on a lemonade stand.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Neanderthal

· #13 · Jan 16, 2015

I don't think it's particularly ugly. Why someone thought it needed two fighter-jet-class scoops is beyond me, but I guess that's what passes for modern in styling these days. It's better than that ghastly giant maw that's currently the style at Toyota/Lexus. WTF, over?

They're missing a major coup in the gadget department. If the motive-power byproduct is pure H2O, why not make that available to the passengers?

Put a gallon of cooled storage somewhere, supply the car with "Toyota Hydrogen Water" :clap: labeled plastic bottles with a capper/sealer, and the damn gadget would put potential buyers over the edge.

Laugh if you like.

I remember an old Arkansas tourist joke, BEFORE Desert Storm made bottled water the thing to have.
Briefly, it went "If they's so smart from Neww Yawrk City, why do they stop by the side of the road and buy rocks (minerals) and water (spring water) from us?"

Folks showing off their quiet H-car that makes its own water (peeing jokes now, please!

) and automatically bottles it, would tickle some folks silly.

See less See more

Reactions: 3

mchicha

· #14 · Jan 16, 2015

Neanderthal said:
I don't think it's particularly ugly. Why someone thought it needed two fighter-jet-class scoops is beyond me, but I guess that's what passes for modern in styling these days. It's better than that ghastly giant maw that's currently the style at Toyota/Lexus. WTF, over?

They're missing a major coup in the gadget department. If the motive-power byproduct is pure H2O, why not make that available to the passengers?

Put a gallon of cooled storage somewhere, supply the car with "Toyota Hydrogen Water" :clap: labeled plastic bottles with a capper/sealer, and the damn gadget would put potential buyers over the edge.

Laugh if you like.

I remember an old Arkansas tourist joke, BEFORE Desert Storm made bottled water the thing to have.
Briefly, it went "If they's so smart from Neww Yawrk City, why do they stop by the side of the road and buy rocks (minerals) and water (spring water) from us?"

Folks showing off their quiet H-car that makes its own water (peeing jokes now, please!) and automatically bottles it, would tickle some folks silly.

Thats quite an idea

Reactions: 1

paul8488

· #15 · Jan 16, 2015

Neanderthal said:
They're missing a major coup in the gadget department. If the motive-power byproduct is pure H2O, why not make that available to the passengers?

Great idea! If there are potable-water concerns (How do you ensure the system stays clean, when we know that in this day and age people are just begging for a reason to sue?), at least provide a tank to capture the water to use for watering flowers or plants, for example. Can you imagine the green spin a company could put on that?!? Your Toyota Mirai F'n waters plants!

I'm picturing an ad with a sexy 'Mother Nature' flying through the countryside with her Toyota watering can...

Reactions: 2

mchicha

· #16 · Jan 16, 2015

Neanderthal said:
.

paul8488 said:

Great idea! If there are potable-water concerns (How do you ensure the system stays clean, when we know that in this day and age people are just begging for a reason to sue?), at least provide a tank to capture the water to use for watering flowers or plants, for example. Can you imagine the green spin a company could put on that?!? Your Toyota Mirai F'n waters plants!

I'm picturing an ad with a sexy 'Mother Nature' flying through the countryside with her Toyota watering can...

Click to expand...

Toyota has already played that tune.

MonaroSS

· #17 · Jan 16, 2015

It's not ugly. It just thought it would grow up to be a Lexus, but it still hasn't lost it's baby teeth...

bmwboy2007

· #18 · Jan 16, 2015

I don't find it as ugly as some here, but I think the technology behind it is quite gorgeous.

Reactions: 3

minnfang

· #19 · Jan 16, 2015 (Edited)

I disagree that the Mirai is the most futuristic car you can buy. I think purely battery powered electric vehicles are the most futuristic. I think battery power is the long term future. Simpler is better, and better is the future.

Neanderthal

· #20 · Jan 16, 2015

mchicha said:
Toyota has already played that tune.

Funny, the unspoken irony of that ad. CO2 is GOOD FOR PLANTS. Battery acid, not so much. :fall:

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.