GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,948 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2016 Cadillac CTS-V Won’t Get Manual, Hydra-Matic 8L90 8-Speed Auto Possible
by Mircea Panait
24th November 2014

After the BMW M4-rivaling 2016 Cadillac ATS-V got everyone excited at the LA Auto Show, the American luxury manufacturer is going to continue its high performance offensive with the 2016 CTS-V. Slated to debut next year at the Detroit Auto Show, the uber Caddy is going to adopt a supercharged LT4 bruiser.

But then again, the ATS-V got its Z06-grade GM Hydra-Matic 8L90 eight-speed automatic and it wouldn’t be a surprise if the 2016 CTS-V would adopt it as well. The only bad news that needs to be pointed out is that the CTS-V won’t get a good ol’ stick shift box and a clutch pedal. Apparently...

That’s if MotorTrend’s Johnny Lieberman got the right info. He’s the same guy that previously claimed the Porsche 991 facelift will adopt the 992 codename. That was just a smokescreen considering Porsche themselves confirmed the 991 facelift will receive the 991.2 moniker when it will be launched next year.
CONTINUE AT AUTOEVOLUTION.COM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
525 Posts
Actually this makes sense most executive luxury car buyers do not want to row their own gears. This will definitely attract some attention but it is for the better. If you want a fast luxury sedan/coupe buy the ATS-V or ATS-V+ when it comes. I suspect the ATS-V + (plus) will debut a year after the CTS-V so quite the whiners who want a v8 stick shift beast of a luxury car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,947 Posts
I think it is a smart move for GM. Manual transmissions and clutches tend to get abused in performance cars, especially by those that don't know how to properly drive one. The odds are that the few folks who would buy one would not know how to drive one properly since most did not grow up driving a manual (like some of us old folks).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,245 Posts
Judging by the other comments here, I'm apparently in the minority.

I think manual sales would've been significant (maybe as much as 15-20%), but I do understand that a supercharged LT4 (DI, VVT, etc) will no doubt be a handful for 98% of the drivers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vanshmack

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,370 Posts
Disappointing for the "purists" but not surprising.

BMW, I believe, has already stated the current M5 will be the last with a stick-shift and I think Porsche is on the fence about making the next 911 PDK only. Which shouldn't be surprising considering most of the people who are buying these cars don't care about "becoming one with the car".

Caddy fans should enjoy the row-your-own ATS-V while you have it because if the CTS-V does go slushbox only and doesn't suffer in sales, the ATS-V will follow suit.
 

·
Super Moderator
2011 Chevrolet Camaro SS - 6M w/LS3
Joined
·
4,299 Posts
CUE (pun intended) bitching in 3... 2... 1...

No big deal here. Sorry to the 6 people worldwide who were going to buy it with a manual transmission.
There are more of us than you know. The so-called "fact" that people don't want manual transmissions has as a lot to do with a lack of choices. Furthermore, dealers are averse to manual transmissions because they believe that they're harder to sell. Unfortunately, these same dealers are of the old school mentality, believing that only stripped cars should have manuals, and thus, only order them this way, if they're even available at all. In 2014 few people buy a stripped car, so this is a feedback loop which reinforces the overstatement about manuals being dead.

I'm not saying that manuals, if widely available, would be as popular as they were 30-40 years ago, but what I am saying is that they're not as sales proof as the industry would have us believe, either.

I think it is a smart move for GM. Manual transmissions and clutches tend to get abused in performance cars, especially by those that don't know how to properly drive one. The odds are that the few folks who would buy one would not know how to drive one properly since most did not grow up driving a manual (like some of us old folks).
I don't think the level of abuse of a manual is any more widespread than the neglect automatics typically see in terms of fluid/filter changes.

Judging by the other comments here, I'm apparently in the minority.

I think manual sales would've been significant (maybe as much as 15-20%), but I do understand that a supercharged LT4 (DI, VVT, etc) will no doubt be a handful for 98% of the drivers.
I agree. And high performance vehicles typically have a much higher manual take rate than do "normal" cars. And as I recall, the first-gen CTS-V sold pretty darn well, despite the fact that it was manual-only.

Prediction:

Poorly.
If the take rate on the 3-pedal car is less than 30% after the first couple of model years, I'll gladly give up my soap-box rants about lack of manual transmission choices in new automobiles.

My bet is, production will be 60% auto, 40% manual. You know, like the current Corvette.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,421 Posts
There are more of us than you know. The so-called "fact" that people don't want manual transmissions has as a lot to do with a lack of choices. Furthermore, dealers are averse to manual transmissions because they believe that they're harder to sell. Unfortunately, these same dealers are of the old school mentality, believing that only stripped cars should have manuals, and thus, only order them this way, if they're even available at all. In 2014 few people buy a stripped car, so this is a feedback loop which reinforces the overstatement about manuals being dead.

I'm not saying that manuals, if widely available, would be as popular as they were 30-40 years ago, but what I am saying is that they're not as sales proof as the industry would have us believe, either.
The issue with offering a manual in a car like the CTS-V is price. There just aren't enough pure auto enthusiasts with enough money to buy one. Remember, G3 CTS-V is most likely going to start around $90,000. Sure, it would be nice to see a 640 HP CTS-V with three pedals, but it wouldn't sell at all. Most people prefer automatics. Watch Z06 sales in the near future. The availability of an automatic will do wonders for sales.

If the take rate on the 3-pedal car is less than 30% after the first couple of model years, I'll gladly give up my soap-box rants about lack of manual transmission choices in new automobiles.

My bet is, production will be 60% auto, 40% manual. You know, like the current Corvette.
ATS-V has a better chance with a manual transmission, yet the take rate on the regular ATS with a manual transmission is laughable right now. Not quite fair, because the problem with that is that (1) no AWD option with the MT and (2) only available on the 2.0T.

If BMW, the ultimate driving machine brand which is known for selling sporty cars couldn't sell an M5 with a manual, then how could Cadillac, the brand that most people associate with geriatric folks and floaty barges? As much as I'd love to see a three pedal CTS-V, it just won't sell.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,750 Posts
How expensive is a manual compared to the auto in the US? You pay €1,300 less over here for a Astra sedan 1.6T with a stick. That's a lot of money, maybe not for Cadillac buyer but for the rest of us it is.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,276 Posts
I think it is a smart move for GM. Manual transmissions and clutches tend to get abused in performance cars, especially by those that don't know how to properly drive one. The odds are that the few folks who would buy one would not know how to drive one properly since most did not grow up driving a manual (like some of us old folks).
Part of the problem there is due to lack of opportunities to learn/practice. As was mentioned already, the decidedly limited number of choices available make it difficult to find something that is practical, desirable, and affordable. You're either stuck with uber-cheap, no-frills economy cars or often impractical sports cars that can be unaffordable.

If more people had the opportunity to get behind the wheel of a car with a manual transmission you might just see an increased adoption rate.

That said, I would never want a manual transmission in a daily driven vehicle... they can be very frustrating to deal with in stop-and-go or slow moving traffic.
 

·
Super Moderator
2011 Chevrolet Camaro SS - 6M w/LS3
Joined
·
4,299 Posts
The issue with offering a manual in a car like the CTS-V is price. There just aren't enough pure auto enthusiasts with enough money to buy one. Remember, G3 CTS-V is most likely going to start around $90,000. Sure, it would be nice to see a 640 HP CTS-V with three pedals, but it wouldn't sell at all. Most people prefer automatics. Watch Z06 sales in the near future. The availability of an automatic will do wonders for sales.
A fair point, regarding the CTS-V, which I will concede.

But I don't think you're going to see a quantum leap on Z06 sales due to the auto. Will it sell better than the manual-only C5 and C6, sure, but you're not going to see Z06 sales double because of the availability of an automatic.


ATS-V has a better chance with a manual transmission, yet the take rate on the regular ATS with a manual transmission is laughable right now. Not quite fair, because the problem with that is that (1) no AWD option with the MT and (2) only available on the 2.0T.
You just said it yourself...The availability of the manual is laughable. It's like GM is saying "You can only get the manual on a red 2.0 liter turbo ATS built on a Tuesday."

I know this would be a small sample size, but I wonder how many 2.0T RWD ATSs are purchased with a manual?
 

·
Super Moderator
2011 Chevrolet Camaro SS - 6M w/LS3
Joined
·
4,299 Posts
How expensive is a manual compared to the auto in the US? You pay €1,300 less over here for a Astra sedan 1.6T with a stick. That's a lot of money, maybe not for Cadillac buyer but for the rest of us it is.
Automatics are usually $800-$1200 over a manual in the US. Interestingly, though, automatics are more and more becoming the standard transmission, and when a manual is offered, it's becoming a no-cost option.
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
Top