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Discussion Starter #1
:D Just thought you GM guys would love to hear this. It was a comparo of seven and has them in order like so...from last place to first was 7TH volvo S80-T6, 6TH BMW 530i , 5TH Audi A6 3.0 quattro, 4TH Chrysler 300, 3TH Jaguar S-Type, 2ND Mercedes E320, and the CTS 3.6 at first place. So you guys better get out and get your june copy and read-on! Also you know how fickle these writers are. Next month they may have it in last place :lol: so enjoy first while it lasts.


Oh!..forgot to add. There was a quote saying the CTS handled like the BMW should HAVE!..(got to love it)
 

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Actually I think the R&D editors generally are the least bias of the three major car magazines. Motor Trend is kinda close but i think they lean towards the Japanese.
 

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That's good news for Cadillac. The addition of the 3.6 should really give a bust to the CTS. I still don't like the styling, but it is good to see the race tested CTS take first. The GM engineers knew what they were doing when they developed that car.

Of interest is the placement of the Chrysler 300, Mercedes E-class, and Jaguar S-Type.

First, I thought people didn't like the Jaguar S-Type, or am I thinking of the X-Type? In any case, this is a pretty good showing by Jaguar.

The 300 didn't place as high as I thought it would. It is suppose to blow the field away. I guess not. Was it the Hemi version?

And I find it interesting that the platform the 300 is based off of, the previous E-class, is apparently no match for the newer, more improved Mercedes E-Class. Yep, in this family, Chrysler will aways stay second fiddle with the hand-me downs. I guess Chrysler will eventually get to the E-class level when the current E-class is replaced with an even better model some years down the road.

Again, congratulations to Cadillac for finishing first.
 

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The 300 was probably the 3.5 that makes 250hp. Having a big V8 in that comparison would throw everything off, and we would see the big dogs come out to play, i.e. RS6, M5, CTS-V, E55 AMG, And that supercharged Jag.
In the article, look at the price of the 300. Thats 34+k without the hemi... Hemi power plus options would probably drive that up to the middle 40's no? At that point, Id go CTS-V!
 

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Great news for Cadillac.

What surprises me more than Caddy's 1st place finish is BMW's 6th place loss.
2nd or 3rd I can understand, 6th makes them look REALLY bad.
 

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Originally posted by bigals87z28@May 6 2004, 08:40 AM
In the article, look at the price of the 300. Thats 34+k without the hemi... Hemi power plus options would probably drive that up to the middle 40's no? At that point, Id go CTS-V!
That's odd. Chrylsers web site says the Hemi version starts at $33k. Adding every option I can find (upgraded Nav and Sound, walnut wood trim, side head air bags, power pedals, etc., etc.), got the price up to $37k. And you are saying they didn't test the hemi?

It makes no sense what-so-ever. $3k more, why in the heck didn't they test the 330C? That is inexcusable IMHO

Also, CTS-Vs is around $50k-$52k. A very long way from the $37k loaded 300C.

Any way you look at it though, that is a great showing by the American cars! Any time both Caddilac and Chrysler beat out both BMW and Audi--that is good news.
 

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Who even buys a Jaguar!?! Why is it in this comparo!?! I thought the CTS competes with the entry-level luxury sedans like the G35, 330i, etc...I guess all mags have their own style!
 

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Considering the 300's price was close to $10K less than the next most expensive model in the test, 4 place is very impressive. If this was Consumer Reports, it would get the CU Best Buy tag.

Although it was much closer in price, the CTS was the second cheapest car out there, and at $43K for a 3.6, it must have been loaded to the gills. Also very impressive.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Originally posted by Rex Raider@May 6 2004, 12:57 PM


What surprises me more than Caddy's 1st place finish is BMW's 6th place loss.
2nd or 3rd I can understand, 6th makes them look REALLY bad.
I know, it suprised me too 6th place for a bimmer. Really bad news for BMW. Also even more of a kick in the rear, the CTS does it all with regular unleaded fuel.
The others (except for the 300 that uses mid-grade) require premium fuel.....
 

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The BMW sixth place does NOT surprise me! R&T did a test of the 5 series a couple months ago and the base 5 sucks, it is a BIG, heavy car and has less that 200 hp iirc. The Acura TL in that same issue blew its doors off in nearly every performance category and the TL was FWD and $20,000 less expensive!

I have always thought that if GM built good high quality cars that they could beat cars from europe head to head. Caddy deserves this win imo, they are currently the trend-setters of style and performance in the luxury car segment, congrats Caddy!
 

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I'd buy one right away, if it had a better interior. I dunno what my next car is going to be, but I have seen the 05 G35 interior pics and it looks pretty good - much improved IMO. Hopefully, Caddy puts the STS theme into the CTS and SRX soon!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Originally posted by Rampant+May 6 2004, 02:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rampant @ May 6 2004, 02:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigals87z28@May 6 2004, 08:40 AM
In the article, look at the price of the 300. Thats 34+k without the hemi... Hemi power plus options would probably drive that up to the middle 40's no? At that point, Id go CTS-V!
That's odd. Chrylsers web site says the Hemi version starts at $33k. Adding every option I can find (upgraded Nav and Sound, walnut wood trim, side head air bags, power pedals, etc., etc.), got the price up to $37k. And you are saying they didn't test the hemi?

It makes no sense what-so-ever. $3k more, why in the heck didn't they test the 330C? That is inexcusable IMHO

Also, CTS-Vs is around $50k-$52k. A very long way from the $37k loaded 300C.

Any way you look at it though, that is a great showing by the American cars! Any time both Caddilac and Chrysler beat out both BMW and Audi--that is good news. [/b][/quote]
:ninja: Wait a minute now. If you're saying you went to Chrysler's website for this price quote, and still managed to keep it under $40 grand w/every option. I guess I can see that, but stroll down to any local Chrysler dealer and try to get one at that price with out that rip-off dealer mark up. Now, not saying you wouldn't get a dealer mark up at the Caddy dealership, but thats why you shop around. I guess my point is the CTS-V is worth the (bang for the buck)and chrysler still has to prove itself as a rear drive player in the market...
 

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Hmm....R&T gave CTS 1st place.
In MT CTS came in second........
I think this whole magazine-thing is just bias. We just like to read on....
 

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The 300 is good, but I think the 300 and CTS are 2 different cars aimed at 2 different parts in the market. The 300's price is aimed at the Accord/Camry segment so there V6's can line up in price with there V6 prices. The hemi model is a little something for the enthusiast. I think people going after this car want the hemi as that seems to be the biggest draw from all of dodges commercials. They are pulling crazy times out of that 300C in car rags and its pretty close to the time they get for the CTS-V, but most mags couldnt drive to save there life. How a 300C that weighs over 2 tons post near the same time as a much lighter, much more powerful CTS-V? Answer, wheel hop. The best is reading this months car and driver and all the preppy BMW fan-boys writing in about the "old technology push rod engine" and "how it was leaking oil and low tire pressure, etc etc" which I think C&D added to put extra flare on how bad American cars are today. Caddy loves there new CTS-V, and I dont think they are gunna give of all people, C&D, a run down model so they can rip it apart. If I was caddy, Id give them a ringer with a bit more tuning, and show them how this "old tech pushrod" can smoke out all the VVT you can throw at it. :D
 

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Base Price: $32,370.00
T Package $0.00
Options: $5,630.00
Color: $0.00
Destination: $625.00
MSRP: $38,625.00
Accessories: $0.00
Total:  $38,625.00
thats a loaded hemi model. I thought it would be more, but amazed as I am, its not. Id still drop the money and get a much better sports sedan in the CTS-V :D .
 

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Originally posted by hockey81289@May 5 2004, 04:20 PM
Actually I think the R&D editors generally are the least bias of the three major car magazines. Motor Trend is kinda close but i think they lean towards the Japanese.
Well, maybe so.

Anecdotally speaking, I've always found Road and Track to be the worst offender, together with Car and Driver. Motor Trend used to be pretty mean to the domestics, but they seem to have moderated over the last few years.

IMO, the trade rag that represents the most balanced point of view by far is Automobile Mag.

Anywho, this R&T review is good news any way you slice it. B)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Originally posted by bigals87z28@May 8 2004, 04:18 PM
The 300 is good, but I think the 300 and CTS are 2 different cars aimed at 2 different parts in the market.
:) Excactly!!...BINGO. Well put. As a matter of fact, I remember a magazine (can't remember what one) even quote's Chrysler saying something to that effect- the Accord/Camary will be it's direct competitors.

I always find it funny to read in magazines and hear people compare the CTS and 300 as though they would be direct competitors. My guess is there seduced by the prestige that is attatched to the rear drive E-class Mercedes underpinnings, wich is not a bad thing (definitly not for Chrysler) But it doesn't excactly get Chrysler a free ticket to luxury car stardome because they rob the Mercedes Parts bin every now and then.
 
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