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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Jonny Lieberman via Jalopnik

I would take this with a grain of salt.

EDIT: CONFIRMED

Motortrend

Starting off Cadillac's product transformation will be the CT6, the new flagship sedan that is expected to go into production late next year. Cadillac had previously claimed the CT6 will be the "most agile car among in the class of top-level large luxury sedans," but de Nysschen is now clarifying that the flagship is not meant to be positioned against the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, BMW 7 Series, or Audi A8. Instead, he says it will offer similar refinement but more technology and a smaller body. In light of this, we think that the CT6 could rival a BMW Gran Coupe, and that a possible CT8 could end up as an S-Class fighter down the line.
 

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Jonny Lieberman via Jalopnik

I would take this with a grain of salt.
I don't think there's a need to take it with a grain. That's a quote from de Ny.

Some have suggested here that it will effectively replace the XTS, which makes sense in terms of its spot in the hierarchy being relatively low and the fact that the XTS just doesn't belong.

It sounds like something incredible is coming after it. This is getting very interesting.
 

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I don't think there's a need to take it with a grain. That's a quote from de Ny.

Some have suggested here that it will effectively replace the XTS, which makes sense in terms of its spot in the hierarchy being relatively low and the fact that the XTS just doesn't belong.

It sounds like something incredible is coming after it. This is getting very interesting.
If it's only taking the place of the XTS from a price range of maybe ~$60k to 90-100k, that's veeery interesting, especially if there's something coming above it...

Are they basically bifurcating the top-end market, similar to how Mercedes did to the entry-level market? It would keep one relatively attainable to the "masses" and the other would satisfy the egomaniacs of the world.

Interesting strategy, to say the least, but I can't help but remain confused and believe a single-car strategy directly aimed at the Germans would be better.
 

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I'm confused.
If it is a slightly smaller,tighter and more dynamic driver focused car than G3, (The German trio)but still offers all of the required luxury accoutrements this could be a good move. The 7/A8L/S-Class are all a tad porky imo, so a more lithe CT6 could find it's own niche in the market. Perhaps this is the SWB (119-120" WB) version, and a longer (125") CT7 will follow a year or so after?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
If it's only taking the place of the XTS from a price range of maybe ~$60k to 90-100k, that's veeery interesting, especially if there's something coming above it...

Are they basically bifurcating the top-end market, similar to how Mercedes did to the entry-level market? It would keep one relatively attainable to the "masses" and the other would satisfy the egomaniacs of the world.

Interesting strategy, to say the least, but I can't help but remain confused and believe a single-car strategy directly aimed at the Germans would be better.

Idea #2: CT6 is SWB-only and another, longer-than-125"-wheelbase car is coming above it?
I believe the answer is Both

60-130k would make it a brand stealer. Perhaps the 4 door coupe CT8 would sit above it. I think there's enough of the high end to split up.

I think unlike Audi, BMW, Lexus, and MB, they're actually going to sell their SWB model as a separate model as the "Driver's" car instead of treating it like the awkward step child. That's a strong strategy that can really really steal sales.
 

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But people don't shop wheelbase they shop class.......The CT6 will be compared to the BMW 7 series etc...
This might be Malibu all over again, less rear legroom then competitors.....I hope not.
 

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It it is a slightly smaller,tighter and more dynamic driver focused car than G3, (The German trio)but still offers all of the required luxury accoutrements this could be a good move. The 7/A8L/S-Class are all a tad porky imo, so a more lithe CT6 could find it's own niche in the market. Perhaps this is the SWB (119-120" WB) version, and a longer (125") CT7 will follow a year or so after?
Posted this at the same time.

I would hope something like this is true, particularly if CT6 isn't directly aimed at the big Germans. That would help with the numerical limitations of the lineup if CT6 is not their FULL flagship. If it's a smaller, more nimble CT6 on the bottom end and a larger, more traditional sedan at the top that is LARGER THAN or just as large as the Germans, and they make a flagship "family," that would be very interesting.

CT6 being LESS than the Germans would satisfy what I'm sure is a very pervasive thought amongst older, more traditional Cadillac customers that the new flagship will "probably be too expensive," and the $100,000 super-sedan that was supposedly cancelled would return ABOVE CT6 positioned ABOVE the S-Class, accommodating Cadillac's need for volume off Omega and Cadillac's image problems while selling high-end cars, while still offering them a larger car as a TRUE flagship that outdoes the Germans.

CT6 being positioned maybe half a tier lower than the Germans with another larger, more impressive sedan STARTING at $100,000 is what this and the news we've had so far sounds like to me.

Buuut... I don't know. Time to wait and see, but I'm interested.

If Cadillac attempts something like this, I'll actually be impressed because it sounds pretty ballsy.
 

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But... How much smaller can it be?? It looks huge from the spy pics! :confused:
That's what's confusing me, too. It looks just as big as the Germans.

It would be ABSOLUTELY incredible if it's only marginally smaller overall and they pull a 1-2 by undercutting the German flagships with a "flagship-lite" thats 90% of the flagships while offering incredible value and THEN coming out with a larger, even MORE impressive flagship that exceeds the Germans in every metric.
 

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Idea #2: CT6 is SWB-only and another, longer-than-125"-wheelbase car is coming above it?
Got me? Just me speculating. Here's an interesting wrinkle. If the CT6 is going to be the lightest most agile car in it's class, and yet it isn't actually going head to head with the G3 isn't it in a class of one? By virtue of that little fact wouldn't that also make it the heaviest car in it's class lol?
 

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If it's only taking the place of the XTS from a price range of maybe ~$60k to 90-100k, that's veeery interesting, especially if there's something coming above it...

Are they basically bifurcating the top-end market, similar to how Mercedes did to the entry-level market? It would keep one relatively attainable to the "masses" and the other would satisfy the egomaniacs of the world.

Interesting strategy, to say the least, but I can't help but remain confused and believe a single-car strategy directly aimed at the Germans would be better.
It's surprising to hear this news now because no one was expecting it but it makes sense. A car in the price range you mentioned wouldn't be any different than the A7/CLS/GC bracket.

de Ny stated it would have "more advanced technology, better dynamics, similar refinement." I see a vehicle like this being positioned as something emotional and performance oriented. One of the members at the showing said it will come with a 6.2 V8 standard. I'll take that with a grain but that sounds like it's all about performance. It sounds like a big win for Cadillac if they're able to bring that kind of package together at the price point you mentioned.

He said it would be smaller but that's hard to believe when you look at the spy photos. I'll state my theory now...the CT6 could be SWB only. Maybe that's why it's smaller. The CT7 or CT8 could be LWB only. I have no problem with this approach if the flagship is going to be that much more special.
 

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Is lightweight/great handling important for this segment? Meaning you aren't buying these large cars to go canyon carving, so would that have been a major target of Cadillac? I know lightweight for better mpg's....

Either way, very intriguing comment. Great way to build up interest by making us all speculate and keep it on our minds.
 

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120-122" sounds right based upon the spy pictures
I'm going to assume 120", same as Elmiraj (I think).

It's surprising to hear this news now because no one was expecting it but it makes sense. A car in the price range you mentioned wouldn't be any different than the A7/CLS/GC bracket.

de Ny stated it would have "more advanced technology, better dynamics, similar refinement." I see a vehicle like this being positioned as something emotional and performance oriented. One of the members at the showing said it will come with a 6.2 V8 standard. I'll take that with a grain but that sounds like it's all about performance. It sounds like a big win for Cadillac if they're able to bring that kind of package together at the price point you mentioned.

He said it would be smaller but that's hard to believe when you look at the spy photos. I'll state my theory now...the CT6 could be SWB only. Maybe that's why it's smaller. The CT7 or CT8 could be LWB only. I have no problem with this approach if the flagship is going to be that much more special.
A car in that price range would be much larger than any of those three cars.

Cadillac also said that there would be no CTS-L, and that the reason would be apparent shortly.

Agreed on size, pricing, and concern.
 

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Seriously, Johan has a lot of talent to keep attention! Valuable information, detail by detail.

Now it makes more sense this comment from Uwe Ellinghaus in the press release:
“CT6 will constitute an entirely new approach to the prestige sedan, emphasizing a dynamic driving experience and advanced technology.”
This gets even more interesting! :rolleyes:
 
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