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who would disagree, the camaro is 3yrs late and will have low sales #s
Anyone who wanted a "pony" car have already scratched that itch and bought a mustang, or forbid... a charger.
...The itch now is to get something more economical.

Great car, too late.
 

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Told you so. Look at all the money GM wasted - they missed the resurgence of the market, they took too long to go from concept to production, and then they will have a car in a year that will be lucky to sell as well as the Camaro that was discontinued.

My prediction: GM will be lucky to sell 10,000 Shamaros the first year and won't be able to sell more than 4 digit amounts in the two years after that before they pull the plug.
 

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Csaba Csere is one of my favorite Automotive Magazine editors and I agree with his analysis of the Pony car sales prospects. Remember about a year ago I fought some members of this forum about the impracticality of 2009 era Pony cars. I stated I owned a new 1969 Chevy Camaro SS396, and it was a blast, but gasoline was 24.99 cents per gallon back then. A full tank didn't even cost $10.00, today it will most likely cost $65.00 or more.

The auto manufacturer spent money on niche vehicles that sell in good times, we are entering at least a rough recession, I too believe they are the wrong cars, for this time.
 

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I realize that if someone really wants the car, they'll get it, but with soaring fuel prices and everything else hitting the ****ter, part of me wonders if this vehicle is coming too late, or going to be more of a niche vehicle than it already is.
 

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Anyone who wanted a "pony" car have already scratched that itch and bought a mustang, or forbid... a charger.
When did a Charger become a pony car? Did you mean Challenger? That's a stretch too for a 4140 pound hunk of steel to be called pony.
 

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As much as I hate to admit it, this generation Camaro probably won't stick around long. Same with the Challenger. Gas prices are going to kill these cars, and quick.
GM is planning to sell 100,000 of these cars, maybe more. They might get that the first year, but after that sales will probably tank, and once again the name will be relegated to the history books.

Here's hoping we can have some fun while they last.
 

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Csere is a really....really smart guy. And his conclusion that the new muscle cars might not be in demand because of the high gas prices is kind of a no brainer. But I was really dissapointed after listening to the video. He talks about the 5.0 mustangs of the early 80'd and how hard they were to sell because of the gas prices. While 82-85 were some of the worst years for mustang sales( and 4 of the 6 years the camaro outsold the mustang). The 5.0 was only gone for 80 and 81 if I remember. 80 and 81 were actually pretty good years for mustang sales. It just seems like a bad comparison to today. Also he says that the v8 cars today won't break 20 mpg. I guess he means city mileage but it just seems vague. I don't really think it means much. If he came out and said he thought there would be problems with some technical aspect of the car I would pay attention but I don't put much weight behind his sales predictions.
 

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Yeah, not to mention GM will have a v6 and possilbly an 4cyl turbo. If GM is able to do all of this the car will get the same gas MPG as any other car on the road. It still will sell like any v6 car out there.
 

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Well if Old Bald Driver of Import Cars #1 says stay away, then I want one.

Thanks for being wrong again, Csaba! Oh and..until I saw you, I didn't realize how much younger than you I look! Cheers to you and that full sized solar panel, buddy!
 

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Yeah, not to mention GM will have a v6 and possilbly an 4cyl turbo. If GM is able to do all of this the car will get the same gas MPG as any other car on the road. It still will sell like any v6 car out there.

I'm not sure your conclusion is correct, but it is the right question. How well will a V6 or turbo 4cyl. Camaro sell? Ironcially, the cars success and sustainability is probaby more tied up in the smaller displacment versions.
 

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who would disagree, the camaro is 3yrs late and will have low sales #s
Anyone who wanted a "pony" car have already scratched that itch and bought a mustang, or forbid... a charger.
...The itch now is to get something more economical.

Great car, too late.
you know your right i wanted a pony car and did scratch that itch but not with a mudstain or a 4 door charger familly sedan.... but with these 2 and i still will be adding a new camaro ss to my collection


im not some old fart with to much money to spend on exspensive toys im a 23 years old guy that works hard for what i want, that would be a sporty rear wheel drive v8 coupe not a cobalt, civic, camry or a f'in prius!
 

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Manufacturers have long been accused of short-sightedness. But this belief is short-sighted garbage.

High fuel prices are on everyone's mind because fuel has increased radically in a relatively short period; something like 330% in 5 years. It has not peaked yet but it will level off, likely in the next 12-24 months.

Regardless of political affiliation, the relative stability (4yr minimum) of a new administration will have a stabilizing impact on fuel prices, housing market, stocks, etc. Basically, everything that is affected by hard facts (20% at best) and fear/uncertainty/speculation (80% or more). Markets are the playground of adult children.

Fuel will not increase 300% from today over the next 5 yrs. Even if it levels at $8 (!!!), it will level. People like Csaba Csere seem to think the U.S. is going to become Europe in the next 2-3yrs.

Impossible! Ever heard of the Interstate? Manifest Destiny. We will embrace small cars to a point but we will not replace every vehicle with them. We are not a population trapped in urban centers with mass-transit connecting a dozen countries in less than 3 hours.

People are confident that the SUV/Pickup will survive in a diminished capacity to satisfy a real need for a much smaller group of people. But Csaba and people like him think need will be the sole driver of every purchase from this day forward. No sane person would allow emotion to enter the equation in the days of $4+ gas! And if anyone is foolish enough to do so, their numbers will be too small to allow an emotional product to survive. Are automakers to produce relatively affordable sport/dream/aspirational machines for just 200 people? Of course not. And so Camaro = automatic fail. *end sarcasm*

Maybe in Nazi America, but not here! People will have room in their garages and their hearts for a 40-50 mpg city car/commuter and a 20- 30 mpg fun/weekend car. Some may even have an SUV or P/U! Gasp!
:eek:
 

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Well if Old Bald Driver of Import Cars #1 says stay away, then I want one.

Thanks for being wrong again, Csaba! Oh and..until I saw you, I didn't realize how much younger than you I look! Cheers to you and that full sized solar panel, buddy!
:lmao: well said. well spoken. always fun to read.
 

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Meh, I could care less.

I'm sick of these big heavy cars designed after GM's "golden years" or whatever. Would it kill you to make a modern sporty smallish rwd GM? God forbid you make a car that's of it's time and appeals to young people.
 

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i like how people complain about the cost of gas being at $4 dollars + being to much when in actuality if you adjust for inflation it's right in line with what fuel cost back in the muscle cars hay day if not cheaper.

face it people, we just got use to paying artificially low prices for fuel and now that it is adjusting (thanks to world demand rising) we are screaming foul! i feel the Camaro will do fine, especially considering that Rustangs still sell well as well as vettes and other supposedly gas guzzling performance/ luxury marks.
 

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Manufacturers have long been accused of short-sightedness. But this belief is short-sighted garbage.

High fuel prices are on everyone's mind because fuel has increased radically in a relatively short period; something like 330% in 5 years. It has not peaked yet but it will level off, likely in the next 12-24 months.

Regardless of political affiliation, the relative stability (4yr minimum) of a new administration will have a stabilizing impact on fuel prices, housing market, stocks, etc. Basically, everything that is affected by hard facts (20% at best) and fear/uncertainty/speculation (80% or more). Markets are the playground of adult children.

Fuel will not increase 300% from today over the next 5 yrs. Even if it levels at $8 (!!!), it will level. People like Csaba Csere seem to think the U.S. is going to become Europe in the next 2-3yrs.

Impossible! Ever heard of the Interstate? Manifest Destiny. We will embrace small cars to a point but we will not replace every vehicle with them. We are not a population trapped in urban centers with mass-transit connecting a dozen countries in less than 3 hours.

People are confident that the SUV/Pickup will survive in a diminished capacity to satisfy a real need for a much smaller group of people. But Csaba and people like him think need will be the sole driver of every purchase from this day forward. No sane person would allow emotion to enter the equation in the days of $4+ gas! And if anyone is foolish enough to do so, their numbers will be too small to allow an emotional product to survive. Are automakers to produce relatively affordable sport/dream/aspirational machines for just 200 people? Of course not. And so Camaro = automatic fail. *end sarcasm*

Maybe in Nazi America, but not here! People will have room in their garages and their hearts for a 40-50 mpg city car/commuter and a 20- 30 mpg fun/weekend car. Some may even have an SUV or P/U! Gasp!
:eek:

Hi Blaksabb:

I don't believe you heard him say that his experience was from the 1980's when he was employed at FORD. This justifies his position, it is based on experience. Anyone can believe anything they want, you indicate that you believe it's impossible we in America could possibly face the fuel costs of Europe, what is your justification for that belief? I would wager you that back in 2004, you wouldn't believe diesel would be selling today for $5.00, and gasoline for $4.62.

America has been hit in recent months with a whole bunch of issues, among them is if this economy will survive. Here on the West Coast, I know of once successful Real Estate Agents that haven't sold a house in months, and if the Lending industry problems continue will be out of the business entirely! What Csaba is talking about is the major markets purchasing of automobiles, and I should add this is something he's paid very well to know. He's not living in some sheltered upstate NY community, where major problems haven't even been considered yet, or living off someone else's dime. His information is a basic reality check, also remember he is an auto enthusiast. He like most of us loves cars.

I have close friends in most industries, this comes from years of social interaction, and membership in various civic and private groups clubs, and organizations. One such friend is a Chrysler/Dodge Dealer in Orange County, CA who indicates that most of his early orders for the Challenger have backed out of taking delivery because of the excessive add on costs, and the weight of the production car. Think of it, in 2009 a sports car that weighs over 4000 lbs, this is negatively percieved by buyers accustomed to Hondas and Toyotas. Add the fuel costs and the fact that the cars seat 2 people comfortably what is being sold is a "good times" niche vehicle. And remember we haven't even talked about financing $40K for someone under 30 years old (the target buyer).

I would hope that whatever is on the market sells, but we will have to see what happens in the broader markets. I expect to talk to my friend again soon, and will relay the continuing news.

:drive:
 

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even in the 70's the camaro did good. i belive they sold 282,000 in 79' or some other year around the first 2 oil crisises (? on spelling)
 

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Meh, I could care less.

I'm sick of these big heavy cars designed after GM's "golden years" or whatever. Would it kill you to make a modern sporty smallish rwd GM? God forbid you make a car that's of it's time and appeals to young people.
You mean like a Pontiac Solstice convertible and the new Solstice Coupe?

Totally different market.
 

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Meh, I could care less.

I'm sick of these big heavy cars designed after GM's "golden years" or whatever. Would it kill you to make a modern sporty smallish rwd GM? God forbid you make a car that's of it's time and appeals to young people.
...or the Saturn Sky?
 
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