[mgescuro]

I still don't fully agree. Saturn may have good product, but I repeat: what does that matter if no one wants the product? When the car of the year can't outsell the unloved L-series there's something wrong. The Astra was outsold by the Solstice in April. The Vue is down YTD compared to last year. I like all of Saturn's products and would be happy with any of them, but the average buyer doesn't agree.

GM can't market what is probably the best car lineup in the US... you'd think that would be a fairly easy task. That's why I don't see much hope for poor Saturn, and wonder if it wouldn't be easier to prop up Pontiac (with its much larger dealer base and current fan base and awareness) with all this good product.

See, I don't believe it's that "people don't want the product." That's the simple, face value answer. There's something more to it.

Why would Sky not sell better than Solstice? Is it simply the name? Or is it something else?
Is it price? Is it features?

Or have consumers becomes wiser and more acute and sensitive to what's going on when it comes to cars? A more educated customer becomes harder to fool.

Aura is a great car. Does it stand with Passat? Not on your life. Accord? Nope. Then Aura needs to be rethought along the proper lines.

Marketing needs to show the consumer "What does Saturn offer that can't be found from the imports?" And it's not doing that.

And let's not forget the number of Saturn dealerships is really insignificant compared to the thousands of Chevy and POntiac dealerships.
Market penetration is a factor.

 

[paul8488]

See, I don't believe it's that "people don't want the product." That's the simple, face value answer. There's something more to it.

Why would Sky not sell better than Solstice? Is it simply the name? Or is it something else?
Is it price? Is it features?

Or have consumers becomes wiser and more acute and sensitive to what's going on when it comes to cars? A more educated customer becomes harder to fool.

Aura is a great car. Does it stand with Passat? Not on your life. Accord? Nope. Then Aura needs to be rethought along the proper lines.

Marketing needs to show the consumer "What does Saturn offer that can't be found from the imports?" And it's not doing that.

And let's not forget the number of Saturn dealerships is really insignificant compared to the thousands of Chevy and POntiac dealerships.
Market penetration is a factor.

So then the Aura ISN'T a good car? Either it is or it isn't! If it can't compete with cars a Saturn should be competing with then it's not a good car, and should be a Pontiac.

Saturn has more models than a decade ago and is selling fewer units. I just can't grasp how this makes Saturn GMs gem. You say it will just take marketing, but GM doesn't know how to market. How are they going to figure it out tomorrow? What's going to change anytime soon that's going to help Saturn increase sales? The Vue is all new and selling worse than last year. The Astra hasn't even made a ripple. The Outlook isn't selling either. The Zafira and Corsa... don't yet exist! If they're 'premium' priced like the Astra they'll have the same effect... which is to say none. Wish I was optimistic like you, but I don't see where this faith in Saturn comes from.

People don't want the product. It seems simple because it is simple. There could be a billion reasons, but people aren't buying Saturns in big numbers. That means GM did something (or many things) wrong with Saturn. What good is having a great lineup if people won't come and buy the vehicles?

 

[t-rex]

Perhaps instead of employing larger Opels, GM should have created a “Scionesque” Saturn by selling the smaller Daewoos and the Opel MPV's, creating a distinct line of small cars.

Aveo, Optra, Meriva, Zafira, and Vue would have made an interesting small car lineup.

The larger Opels could possibly serve duty as small Pontiacs.

Maybe Saturn's move upmarket was simply too fast for allow the public's minds to adjust to a “new” Saturn. Moving from plastic freshmanmobile to Passat competitor in less than two years was simply too bold.

 

[2b2]

^^ a Scion-for-grownups sounds right to me, T-rex!
(sorry coming to this thread late but I DID just read the whole thing)
& that part about freshmanmobile-to-Passat is understating it imho (I checked out Saturn when they were starting and the interiors were too low-rent for this cheapskate/po'boy to remain interested)
then considering the center-IP they pulled & (sorry) imho the Sky should never have been a Saturn
(talk about "confuse-a-customer"!)

But even more (re: where I'm coming from)
1 the one-dimensional brand identities (but that's a nother thread)
2 the 'challenge' of a mid-level brand during hard-times that I've heard a Lot about re: "my brand"

So imho SatrOpel needs to join Pontiac & Buick in GM's one'n'only medium-status sales channel,
provide the entriest-of-entry-lux ,
probably let a littlest Buick replace the Aura
& have a Saturn-Cobalt be their largest car (for now).

(disclaimer: I'm no Saturn, nor GM, expert - please don't take offense)

almost forgot:

Deutsch is chairman of Deutsch Inc, one of the largest advertising companies in the country. Well known too.

Saturn has had a great history of using the best in the business -- Hal Riney for the original Saturn ad campaign.... then Goodby Silverstein.... (both powerhouse SF advertising companies).... and now Deutsch....

Saturn could not have had better advertising companies backing it. At this point, even Chiat Day couldn't work its wonders on Saturn.

Something else is amiss....

perhaps it's the same thing (imho) as with complaints against designers?:
that no matter how good/creative ^they^ are, the 'suits' still have to approve things

 

[Canyonaro]

A what? I think you mean a Sky RedLine, because there is no such thing as a Sky Turbo X to the best of my Saturn knowledge. :think:

Yup it is a version of the Sky Redline. Supposed to have 300+ hp, I will look into it to see what it consists of. Quite the fun car though.

EDIT: Ok I found out that it was a Sky Redline that of course the dealer did add a few things to (utah saturn dealers). First of course they chipped the car, added a cold air intake and a big intercooler on with of course new wheels and a racing stripe. How they came up with 300+ hp out of that 2.0l ecotec I will have to ask. They have 2 on the lot that go for $31,000.

 

[Uzzy]

Yup it is a version of the Sky Redline. Supposed to have 300+ hp, I will look into it to see what it consists of. Quite the fun car though.

EDIT: Ok I found out that it was a Sky Redline that of course the dealer did add a few things to (utah saturn dealers). First of course they chipped the car, added a cold air intake and a big intercooler on with of course new wheels and a racing stripe. How they came up with 300+ hp out of that 2.0l ecotec I will have to ask. They have 2 on the lot that go for $31,000.

Oh, so it was a Dealership special. I can see that, but I haven't heard anything abot a factory set-up like that.

I think Saturn should use this ad to stir up the media and get themselves talked about...

 

[sonie_me]

I think Saturn should use this ad to stir up the media and get themselves talked about...

Thanks Uzzy, you owe me for a new monitor. That is too funny!:hyper:

 

[oppositelock]

I just have to come out of retirement to post in this thread. I have at least 100 posts on this site about how Saturn was not going to work - and one of the main reasons that I always posted was that that no on even knew that the brand existed.

But every time I posted that, the Saturn crew would come out and beat me up. My insideline auto stock exchange portfolio is loaded with shorted Astras because I knew that it would bomb spectacularly.

Product isn't everything. Image is equally important. Trying to build an image for Saturn using advertising (when you consider how many other brands GM has) is like trying to make the ocean sweeter with a teaspoon of sugar. Yes, you can try, but the results will be nowhere even close to the effort put in. It's basically pointless. This was one of the stupidest moves by GM and I saw this coming a long time ago. I've had 100s of arguments here just about Saturn. I wish I had the patience to go back and search for my posts on Saturn because they read almost exactly like the article in the first post.

Sorry mgescuro, MBAs can be wrong when it comes to business. GM has squandered MILLIONS if not BILLIONS here that could have been used elsewhere to far better effect. This is terrible management.

Saturn can work.....but NOT the way it is being sold right now. If you can convert Saturn into a GREEN brand like Toyota's future Prius brand, it may have a chance of succeeding with the right product. Otherwise, this is just going to cause me to pull my hair out wondering how GM's management can be this stupid.