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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ethanol-Powered Commodore On The Way

James Stanford
15 July 2008
www.goauto.com.au

GM Holden will introduce a Commodore that can run on E85 ethanol well before the eco-oriented bio-fuel is widely available in Australia.

Using a “build it and they will come” approach, GM Holden managing director Mark Reuss said Holden had a responsibility take a lead on bio-fuels.

Its premium Saab division has already introduced E85-capable models, which run on a blend of 85 per cent ethanol and 15 per cent petrol, despite just one E85 fuel pump being available in Australia. This is offered through United Petroleum in Sydney.

Speaking at the release of a CSIRO report into future fuels last week, Mr Reuss confirmed Holden would introduce an E85 Commodore before an the ethanol infrastructure was in place.

“The answer is yes. We will lead with equipment on vehicles before the supply is readily available,” Mr Reuss said.

“We only have E10 supply available right now, but we design our ethanol-capable cars up to E85 and you can expect to see that here from Holden and GM in Australia.”

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Councils Stall E85 - United

David Hassall
16 July 2008
www.goauto.com.au

United Petroleum blames local government red tape for E85 delays.

Independent fuel retailer United Petroleum is blaming local councils for delaying the roll-out of ethanol-based E85 pumps in Australia to service the small number of Saab ‘BioPower’ being sold here.

Eight months after Saab launched its BioPower models in Australia, there is still only one commercial outlet here – United’s Rozelle service station in Sydney opened two months ago – and still no timeframe for the projected Melbourne site that was due to be operational by last February.

However, with GM Holden last week flagging its intention of introducing E85-compatible Commodores within the next few years, United is pressing ahead with its plans to open more pumps in Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Hobart.

United Petroleum general manager David Szymczak told GoAuto yesterday that the company’s plans were being held up by getting the necessary council permits to install new E85 tanks.

“We’ve been delayed in Victoria with some of our permits and so forth, and we’re working through that currently,” Mr Szymczak said. “We’re still going down the track of rolling out E85 – it’s just taking longer than we thought.

“We’ve got plans to go into Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane. And we currently do E10 in Tasmania, so that’s not out of the question as well.

“With every site, you have local councils and you issues that you need to work through and Rozelle was the first one that we were able to get up and running easily, so we’ve done that and we’re working on the others.”

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Why is it good. I thought you needed water to produce the raw material for bio-fuel and Australia is seriously lacking that commodity at the moment. We will end up importing it instead of oil. Maybe all the rice and cotton fields can be used for it.
I just cant see why there is a rush for bio-fuel in a world that
a) cant feed its people.
b) Can ill afford to have jungles cleared to produce bio-fuel raw material.
c) older diesels will run on used cooking oil.
Find something else.
 

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It's good in the fact that it is significantly cheaper fuel but I'd expect it to be imported from the US or other nations. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out
 

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Why is it good. I thought you needed water to produce the raw material for bio-fuel and Australia is seriously lacking that commodity at the moment. We will end up importing it instead of oil. Maybe all the rice and cotton fields can be used for it.
I just cant see why there is a rush for bio-fuel in a world that
a) cant feed its people.
b) Can ill afford to have jungles cleared to produce bio-fuel raw material.
c) older diesels will run on used cooking oil.
Find something else.
there cellulosic ethanol coming who extracted from wood chips, forest waste, etc and plants like switchgrass who use way less water as well as aglae
 

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there cellulosic ethanol coming who extracted from wood chips, forest waste, etc and plants like switchgrass who use way less water as well as aglae
Not to mention municipal waste. It's no Mr. Fusion, but you can turn garbage/waste into fuel. Ethanol does not need to come from corn. That's just what's readily available at the moment.
 

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Why is it good. I thought you needed water to produce the raw material for bio-fuel and Australia is seriously lacking that commodity at the moment. We will end up importing it instead of oil. Maybe all the rice and cotton fields can be used for it.
I just cant see why there is a rush for bio-fuel in a world that
a) cant feed its people.
b) Can ill afford to have jungles cleared to produce bio-fuel raw material.
c) older diesels will run on used cooking oil.
Find something else.
What alternative is there?
 

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Sydney siders are desperate enough to put E85 in their E10 only capable cars, so im guessing that this is a good thing.
 

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...In other news, GM NA management has deemed this feature unfit for US bound pontiac G8's.
 

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Why is it good. I thought you needed water to produce the raw material for bio-fuel and Australia is seriously lacking that commodity at the moment. We will end up importing it instead of oil. Maybe all the rice and cotton fields can be used for it.
I just cant see why there is a rush for bio-fuel in a world that
a) cant feed its people.
b) Can ill afford to have jungles cleared to produce bio-fuel raw material.
c) older diesels will run on used cooking oil.
Find something else.
Oh, my mistake. It was supposed to look like this:
oh erm....that's good I suppose.:rolleyes:

I just sort of rushed through.
 

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When the automobile was in its infancy there were three alternative power sources available: steam, electricity, and gasoline. Using gasoline in internal combustion engines won. It wasn't chosen because electricity was shocking, nor because steam was just for making tea. Gasoline was chosen because it is an energy dense, transportable fuel.
An infrastructure was built to support fueling cars with gasoline. That infrastructure is easily adapted to supplying other energy sources, particularly E85 and other biologically derived fuels. That is an advantage for those fuel alternatives.
Will that advantage and others be sufficient to make bio-fuels the fuel of choice in future? I don't know.
I do know that alternatives to 100% gasoline are both needed and coming. I believe it is the better policy to allow the alternatives to compete for the choice.
Not to do so is the functional equivalent of making small cars when the market is demanding large ones or making large cars when the market is demanding small ones.
Holden is giving the market an opportunity show whether there is sufficient demand for E85 to justify its place in the universe of options. It is laudable.
Cheers,
Ed Arcuri
"Let them eat cake. M.Antoinette (apocryphal).
 

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Unfortunately, many folk will choose the hamburger over a salad sandwich regardless of the long term effects. Many also know very little about alternative fuel types. What I'm getting at is market decisions aren't always the best ones. VHS<Beta :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Councils Stall E85 - United

David Hassall
16 July 2008
www.goauto.com.au

United Petroleum blames local government red tape for E85 delays.

Independent fuel retailer United Petroleum is blaming local councils for delaying the roll-out of ethanol-based E85 pumps in Australia to service the small number of Saab ‘BioPower’ being sold here.

Eight months after Saab launched its BioPower models in Australia, there is still only one commercial outlet here – United’s Rozelle service station in Sydney opened two months ago – and still no timeframe for the projected Melbourne site that was due to be operational by last February.

However, with GM Holden last week flagging its intention of introducing E85-compatible Commodores within the next few years, United is pressing ahead with its plans to open more pumps in Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Hobart.

United Petroleum general manager David Szymczak told GoAuto yesterday that the company’s plans were being held up by getting the necessary council permits to install new E85 tanks.

“We’ve been delayed in Victoria with some of our permits and so forth, and we’re working through that currently,” Mr Szymczak said. “We’re still going down the track of rolling out E85 – it’s just taking longer than we thought.

“We’ve got plans to go into Melbourne, Adelaide and Brisbane. And we currently do E10 in Tasmania, so that’s not out of the question as well.

“With every site, you have local councils and you issues that you need to work through and Rozelle was the first one that we were able to get up and running easily, so we’ve done that and we’re working on the others.”

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I don't know why we're focusing on E85 which is not really compatible with most of our existing gasoline pipelines. There must be some grade between E10 and E85 that is still compatible with the pipelines thereby not requiring massive infrastructure changes. Anything in the E20-E50 range would still help reduce foreign oil imports and if cars are properly tuned for it wouldn't lose as much power/economy as with E85.
 

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Why is it good. I thought you needed water to produce the raw material for bio-fuel and Australia is seriously lacking that commodity at the moment. We will end up importing it instead of oil. Maybe all the rice and cotton fields can be used for it.
I just cant see why there is a rush for bio-fuel in a world that
a) cant feed its people.
b) Can ill afford to have jungles cleared to produce bio-fuel raw material.
c) older diesels will run on used cooking oil.
Find something else.

If you read the article you would have learnt that in Australia Ethanol is produced from waste matter from Sugar production and waste Molasses, neither of which is causing extra land to be cleared or stopping us feeding the worlds poor people.
 
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