[paddyk]

Clearly the hottest talk in the auto industry right now revolves around Chrysler LLC. Privately owned by Cerberus Capital Management LP, and suffering major losses so far this year with an overall car and light truck market that doesn't shed a particularly positive light on its fortunes changing anytime in the immediate future, it appears the latter portion of the “make or break it” scenario is all that's left.

And “break it” is what Cerberus may do, splitting up Chrysler in into chunks and selling these off to the highest bidders. GM has been in talks with Cerberus for more than a month, the exact details of which are still not known, while previous and concurrent discussions have been taking place with France's Renault-Nissan.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/news/chrysler-could-be-split-up-between-gm-and-renault-nissan/5981/

 

[eurohazard]

Interesting.

I had posted something in another GM-Chrysler thread wondering about this very thing. I know Nissan wants Dodge's share of the full size truck market for sure.

 

[Sinner]

A Nissan Challenger/Charger? That's a terrible idea.

 

[paul8488]

Le Jeep TJ! I love it!

 

[jeep2c]

GM gets Jeep, $11B in cash, a larger share of the Government Bailout, more control over the 2mode system (and more profits from it), and a couple models from Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge.

Renault-Nissan gets the truck programs, and as many of the manufacturing facilities as they want (remember, this is why RN wanted to merge w/ GM, for stateside manufacturing).

Cerberus gets the other half of GMAC, and a minority holding in RN & GM.

Many of Chrysler's plants get shut down, many employees get laid off, and all 3 companies come out healthier.

 

[ksr]

I'd rather see GM acquire chunks of Chrysler rather then the whole thing.

If they're stuck with all of Chrysler, it could be a total mess. If they could add models like Challenger and the minivans, it could be a great thing.

Geez I'd hate to see the Challenger go to Renault/Nissan. That's just wrong. It would also be wrong to see Jeep go to a foreign company.

The Charger, 300, and Challenger could flesh out the Pontiac and Buick lineups nicely. although the 300 might be an odd fit stylistically no matter what division it could end up in.

 

[SirRaven]

This could make a lot more sence and hopefully work a little better for GM. I still feel sorry for all the Chrysler employees right now that have no clue what will happen with them and their Job right now. I just hope all of this is resolved here soon so that the whole thing can move forward, and hopefully for the better.

I also still remeber when Cerberus was going to take control of Chysler people where saying that they were just going to end up selling it off in parts and thats what could be happening. I think the economy kinda made that happen, or accelerated the plans somewhat.

 

[steinravnik]

GM gets Jeep, $11B in cash, a larger share of the Government Bailout, more control over the 2mode system (and more profits from it), and a couple models from Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge.

Renault-Nissan gets the truck programs, and as many of the manufacturing facilities as they want (remember, this is why RN wanted to merge w/ GM, for stateside manufacturing).

Cerberus gets the other half of GMAC, and a minority holding in RN & GM.

Many of Chrysler's plants get shut down, many employees get laid off, and all 3 companies come out healthier.

This actually makes a lot of sense. Now GM just has to get rid of Hummer.

 

[wescoent]

GM gets Jeep, $11B in cash, a larger share of the Government Bailout, more control over the 2mode system (and more profits from it), and a couple models from Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge.

Renault-Nissan gets the truck programs, and as many of the manufacturing facilities as they want (remember, this is why RN wanted to merge w/ GM, for stateside manufacturing).

Cerberus gets the other half of GMAC, and a minority holding in RN & GM.

Many of Chrysler's plants get shut down, many employees get laid off, and all 3 companies come out healthier.

Thus, RN would get all of the government bailout money, because it was earmarked for PLANTS, not the companies that own them. If RN buys a US assembly plant, they get the bailout money.

What about the ten figure lawsuit from dealers if they shut down the brands?

 

[nadepalma]

Interesting read - thought I have to say I don't like the idea of splitting up the company. The thought of Jeep ending up in Renault-Nissan's hands - and the possible elimination of Chrysler and Dodge as brands - are a little upsetting.

I hope that something good comes of this but I've got a bad feeling.

 

[Canyonaro]

This whole thing is a mess, and could be worse then it is worth.

 

[fp115]

Thus, RN would get all of the government bailout money, because it was earmarked for PLANTS, not the companies that own them. If RN buys a US assembly plant, they get the bailout money.

What about the ten figure lawsuit from dealers if they shut down the brands?

I'd say the ten figure lawsuits would be per dealership!

 

[NoStopN]

Fist the Oldsmobile division, then the Eagle division, then the Plymouth division, & now Chrysler Corporation altogether. There is no pride in what our ancestors worked so hard for. Now, we watch as the money-grubbing SOB CEOs take the money & run. Forget the little guys, forget market share, forget American Pride. I would at least rather see GM & Chrysler each fail independantly than to be knocked out in one swift blow.

 

[stevecmh]

i would more rather see it GM.. dont go import

 

[paul8488]

If GM actually touches 11 billion in cash in a deal with Chrysler I'll give each of you 11 billion in cash. It's a made-up number that everyone is now taking as fact.

 

[Stéphane Dumas]

Interesting read - thought I have to say I don't like the idea of splitting up the company. The thought of Jeep ending up in Renault-Nissan's hands - and the possible elimination of Chrysler and Dodge as brands - are a little upsetting.

I hope that something good comes of this but I've got a bad feeling.

I would like the other way around instead, Jeep to GM while Dodge and Chrysler are under Renault-Nissan umbrella.

For your bad feeling, is it the same one as Pete DeLorenzo's scenario he mentionned in Autoextremist rant #467? Here what he mentionned on his last line

Instead, GM has already moved on to renewed, serious discussions with Carlos Ghosn about the possibility of merging GM’s global operations with Renault-Nissan.

and with "Captain Kirk" Kerkorian selling his Ford shares http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/...97/ that's too much for a simple coincidence I begin to wonder if the materialization of this scenario might happen way more sooner then we taught?

 

[nadepalma]

I would like the other way around instead, Jeep to GM while Dodge and Chrysler are under Renault-Nissan umbrella.

Yes, I agree that would be a better scenario, but still doesn't make me happy. I would much rather see GM, R-N, FoMoCo, or anyone else create an industrial alliance rather than a takeover/merger/etc. It would keep Chrysler independent while giving them a partner in which to develop future products. It would also have a much softer blow to the "human costs" in any kind of a merger/buyout/etc. I'm all for cutting un-necessary costs, cutting un-needed jobs, etc. but putting tens of thousands out of work nearly overnight would be hard to swallow.

Anyway you look at it, absorbing or splitting up Chrysler is a sad state of affairs. I don't want to see anymore companies go out of business - let alone a scrappy-underdog and American icon like Chrysler.

For your bad feeling, is it the same one as Pete DeLorenzo's scenario he mentionned in Autoextremist rant #467? Here what he mentionned on his last line

Instead, GM has already moved on to renewed, serious discussions with Carlos Ghosn about the possibility of merging GM’s global operations with Renault-Nissan.

and with "Captain Kirk" Kerkorian selling his Ford shares http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/...97/ that's too much for a simple coincidence I begin to wonder if the materialization of this scenario might happen way more sooner then we taught?

It very well may come down that way. But I would suspect that if GM hasn't moved on from negotiations and the merger does go through, that it would put much more pressure on FoMoCo - rather than GM - to have some kind of cooperation with R-N. At that point, GM would be much too large and would have to focus on integrating a combined company to be an effective partner to R-N.

Instead, a pared down FoMoCo would probably be a much better fit since they have more cash on hand and have been successfuly streamlining their operations.

I think that Mulally has much better approach to this whole thing that GM has. I applaud him and think that he has placed FoMoCo in a more advantageous position than Wagoner, et al. have done with GM. The idea of "accepting your place" in the market and seeking transformational change has been a good thing for Ford. I would rather have a smaller FoMoCo with sustainable profits than an overbloated company with a larger market share. To me, it doesn't make a bit of difference how much of the market you control if you can't turn a decent profit.

But that's just me.

 

[fp115]

If GM actually touches 11 billion in cash in a deal with Chrysler I'll give each of you 11 billion in cash. It's a made-up number that everyone is now taking as fact.

Exactly, that number is very fictitious and a fair bit off the actual cash amount. Chrysler is only said to have close to 12b in liquidity... somehow that means cash, go figure.

 

[paul8488]

Exactly, that number is very fictitious and a fair bit off the actual cash amount. Chrysler is only said to have close to 12b in liquidity... somehow that means cash, go figure.

Why not 20 billion? Or 100 billion? The 11 billion number is based on rumours of what they had about 6 months ago. There will apparently be costs in closing down Chrysler (estimated at around 3 billion). Cerberus hasn't even secured the reamining 19% of Chrysler from Daimler... what if that costs them some cash?

GM will not walk away from any deal with Chrysler with 11 billion in cash. If they do, I'll need your address to send you YOUR cheque for 11 billion.

 

[tripowergto]

While I do believe Nissan would want the Ram's marketshare, didn't they just build a brand new plant for the Titan? I don't think GM would want to allow Nissan to get that strong of a hold in the fullsize truck marketplace, especially since the new, very much improved Ram just hit dealerships. The Nissan version of the Ram is already under development and should continue either way this falls.