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Link: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080316/BUSINESS01/803160556/1014/BUSINESS01

The price of the Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric car will reflect high warranty expenses to cover the lithium-ion batteries that power the cars, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz told Bloomberg News last week.

"We are going to bake in a very substantial warranty cost for the battery in our overall pricing calculation," Lutz said. "We need to be conservative, simply because it's the first time we've done anything like this."

GM is racing to deliver the Volt by the end of 2010, and its key challenge is finding a lithium-ion battery pack that is durable and safe enough for automotive use while delivering 40 miles of all-electric driving on a single charge.
 

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So, it should be a caddy? Maybe...

Anyway, the only thing new about this is the battery. I commend them for trying to jump ahead, but if there is no appeared immediate cost benefit then this is going to flop.

So, nice high warrenty cost. A revolving lease on the batteries. Those two alone make sure of a higher insurance premium.

Yet I still want one. I drive 25 miles to work, can charge up there and never use any gas. I swear it better be faster than a Cobalt sport.
 

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Dear Bobby Putz,

Your criminal conduct with regard to GM resources is manifold:

- You rushed a not so new pickup to market squandering millions of dollars.
- You developed both a new rear drive full-sized SUV and a huge, fuel thirsty front wheel drive SUV market - duplicating much in market coverage while gaining nothing in marketshare with either. This duplication wasted hundreds of millions of dollars in resources.
- You took forever to bring the new Shamaro to market - a point now where hundreds of millions of dollars in resources were wasted when the market will disappear for this product when gas reaches $4 per gallon.
- You bring a rear wheel drive v-8 sedan to market after the market disappears and waste tens of millions of dollars doing so.
- You continue to badge-engineer products even as YOU SAID you wouldn't - rendering some products that should have been unique to brands as meaningless wasting tens of millions of dollars.
- You bring out new Buicks that are bland and invisible in the marketplace and then make Super editions of them wasting still more tens of millions of dollars.
- You waste tens of millions developing fraudulent hybrids when ignoring the need for real hybrids until you are last to get one to the market!

And then you have the nerve to say that the Volt will be outrageously priced?

Are you really that stupid or are you profitting from your malfeasance through criminal conduct? Who is kicking money back to you?

The Volt program should have been the center piece of your company's revival and when you finally see this, you screw it up with stupid comments like this.

I'm dumbfounded that you continue to be employed and not in jail.
 

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Toyota sold the first generation Prius at a loss.

GM should do the same for the Volt. It's an emerging technology that will dominate the market. Experience should be what should try to attain now.

And no, I don't think it should be a Cadillac.
 

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I think a lot of people are going to be expecting a price in the Prius range, and are going to be completely shocked and turned off when they see a much more hefty price tag.

If GM is going to put a huge price tag on the car, which you can't blame them for: new technology always comes at a price, as a concession, they should make them fully loaded.

PS: I love that the forum now says what members are viewing a particular thread. Great touch that I've always wanted to see added here!
 

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No one has thought about the consequences yet of what CJ THUNDER just said....
I drive 25 miles to work, can charge up there and never use any gas.
If people think that they are going to be able to go somewhere and just plug in without paying anything for it, they are going to be sorely mistaken.

You really think your employer is going to soak up the cost of recharging your car for you to come to work and go home??? You really think malls and stores are going to make outlets available for people to recharge their cars on the mall's dime?

Some places do already offer outlets but only for engine block heaters which don't take as much juice as these cars will need.

Don't be surprised if they make a toll based parking area that you have to pay a pretty penny to recharge a battery at the simplest of places.

People seem to forget that they have to pay for electricity sometimes when they make purchases. All these people also went out and bought widescreen HDTVs that actually use more juice than their old tube-styled TV's and now wonder why their bill each month went up by $10-$30 in some cases.

Just wait for the backlash when people's monthly bills go up over $200/month more because they now plug in their cars at night or their raises at their jobs are smaller than previous years because of added cost from outlets out in the parking lot.
 

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Toyota sold the first generation Prius at a loss.

GM should do the same for the Volt. It's an emerging technology that will dominate the market. Experience should be what should try to attain now.

And no, I don't think it should be a Cadillac.
Agreed......I hope Putz & co. stick to their guns on this one.....:yup:
 

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I think a lot of people are going to be expecting a price in the Prius range, and are going to be completely shocked and turned off when they see a much more hefty price tag.

If GM is going to put a huge price tag on the car, which you can't blame them for: new technology always comes at a price, as a concession, they should make them fully loaded.

PS: I love that the forum now says what members are viewing a particular thread. Great touch that I've always wanted to see added here!
?? IIRC, it's done that for years.
 

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GM should sell the volt at a loss the first few years as the get production (and thus economies of scale) up. GM needs to see this initially as a advertising and image builder expense not necessarily a profit building product. Keep it below $30k otherwise the mainstream public will ignore it and then it won't cast a nice glow over all other GM vehicles to them.

They have stated that they plan on building only 10,000 the first model year. So if this costs them $35k to build but they sell it for $27k they will only lose $80 million. That is a drop in the bucket for GM's advertising budget, yet it would be more effective in turning around perceptions then the entire advertisng budget.
 

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No one has thought about the consequences yet of what CJ THUNDER just said....


If people think that they are going to be able to go somewhere and just plug in without paying anything for it, they are going to be sorely mistaken.

You really think your employer is going to soak up the cost of recharging your car for you to come to work and go home??? You really think malls and stores are going to make outlets available for people to recharge their cars on the mall's dime?

Some places do already offer outlets but only for engine block heaters which don't take as much juice as these cars will need.

Don't be surprised if they make a toll based parking area that you have to pay a pretty penny to recharge a battery at the simplest of places.

People seem to forget that they have to pay for electricity sometimes when they make purchases. All these people also went out and bought widescreen HDTVs that actually use more juice than their old tube-styled TV's and now wonder why their bill each month went up by $10-$30 in some cases.

Just wait for the backlash when people's monthly bills go up over $200/month more because they now plug in their cars at night or their raises at their jobs are smaller than previous years because of added cost from outlets out in the parking lot.
I don't think anyone who would have interest in buying a Volt expects that the 'juice' will be free. The truth is that the price of oil will continue to be unstable. As the supply gets tighter, the price wil gyrate and the traders will push the price ever higher. Gasoline is simply going to get more expensive.
Anyone who has taken a college level course in Economics, knows the law of substitution. The more unstable the price of fuel, the more folks will gravitate to alternatives. The Volt is a viable alternative, and for anyone to speculate what it will cost, including the warranty cost for the battery pack is simply foolish. No one knows what gas will cost in 2010, and no one knows if the government will subsidize the cost of Hybrids and Electric Cars as it is in the Nation's security interest to generate the energy for transportation in the US as opposed to buying it from nations bent on our destruction. We spend billions to defend these tin pot governments in Arabia, so why not take some of that money we waste there and put it to use helping ourselves. Those dollars spent helping folks off their gasoline dependence multiplies itself when spent in the US to buy American made products. We flush money down an big fat oil well protecting our oil interests in foreign countries. Those dollars go there and generally don't return to re-invest here.
I will buy one even if it costs $50K, because I prefer my energy coming from the power plant in New Jersey, not some terrorist supporting, repressive regime in the Middle East or anywhere else for that matter. The quicker we make the conversion, the better off we will all be.
 

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Just wait for the backlash when people's monthly bills go up over $200/month more because they now plug in their cars at night or their raises at their jobs are smaller than previous years because of added cost from outlets out in the parking lot.
Thank you.

We won't be able to charge our cars at work, and the charging cost will be like running a washing machine non stop all night. It will add significantly to our electric bills...but if your commute is, say, 10 miles or less this car will be perfect for you.

However, with new nuclear power plants and clean coal, I think this is a viable alternative that will save money on fuel cost.

I also anticipate this Volt to be in the $28K-$30K to start if GM sells it at a loss, so it will be a niche car.
The Li-Ion battery will probably cost $4,000, and the two mode hybrid system will probably cost another $4500 over a regular car....so...what would otherwise be a $22,000 car will now be $30,000. I'd hope that it at least seats 4 people.

This car making since to my wallet depends on how expensive fuel gets. We need to promote nuclear powerplants and supplemental solar panels on homes so we can at least replace fossil fuels with clean energy....and if the electricity goes out or we have to take a long trip...the car still has a gas engine. We all know that making monetary since isn't going to stop someone from dumping money in this to be "clean" or "environmentally friendly".
 

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No one has thought about the consequences yet of what CJ THUNDER just said....


If people think that they are going to be able to go somewhere and just plug in without paying anything for it, they are going to be sorely mistaken.

You really think your employer is going to soak up the cost of recharging your car for you to come to work and go home??? You really think malls and stores are going to make outlets available for people to recharge their cars on the mall's dime?

Some places do already offer outlets but only for engine block heaters which don't take as much juice as these cars will need.

Don't be surprised if they make a toll based parking area that you have to pay a pretty penny to recharge a battery at the simplest of places.

People seem to forget that they have to pay for electricity sometimes when they make purchases. All these people also went out and bought widescreen HDTVs that actually use more juice than their old tube-styled TV's and now wonder why their bill each month went up by $10-$30 in some cases.

Just wait for the backlash when people's monthly bills go up over $200/month more because they now plug in their cars at night or their raises at their jobs are smaller than previous years because of added cost from outlets out in the parking lot.
A lot of the big employers are starting to encourage the use of green technologies. IBM here in RTP, NC have preferred parking for electric vehicles. They even offer free electricity to charge up the vehicles. I wouldn't be suprised to see more business that have campuses or own their own buildings.

I think your doom and gloom about huge electricity is a little premature. Also, if my electric bill only went up $120/month, I would still save money as I spend $160 or more in gas. As more and more plug-in vehicles come on the market, I'm sure the electric companies will come up with a way to let them charge up cheaply, because most vehicles would charge at night during a period where energy producers have to "vent off" the extra electricity that is produced.
 

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As for the price of electricity to charge these cars.. well duh. Nobody expected to buy the car and have no expenses after that.

And the thing that nobody really seems to get is that is is NOT about what it costs to charge the car, it's about where that money is going.

Everyone I talk cars with agrees that they would rather pay more for a fuel that keeps the money in Canada/US that pay a little less for it from a country that hates us.

Most people would be fine with 120/bl oil if it all came from North America and kept the money here.

Bring on higher power bills, until they make a power line from here to the Middle East, it's gonna be damn hard to outsource our electricity.
 

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Thank you.


I also anticipate this Volt to be in the $28K-$30K to start if GM sells it at a loss, so it will be a niche car.
The Li-Ion battery will probably cost $4,000, and the two mode hybrid system will probably cost another $4500 over a regular car....so...what would otherwise be a $22,000 car will now be $30,000. I'd hope that it at least seats 4 people.
My understanding is that the gas engine never drives the car, no connection to the wheels. It's sole purpose is to charge the battery, that means no 2 mode system, which saves that 4 grand you're talking about.

GM will sell this at a loss. THey may be talking about charging more to cover warrenty, but that doesn't mean they wont take a loss, it means they wont take as big a loss.

This car will soley be a marketing tool, at least for a while.

I just hope the battery wont have a memory, like old RC car batteries. It will be nice to jsut be able to plug it in for maybe an hour, and have enough juice to go to the store and back. Not every trip will be the max-40~ miles.
 

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If it is going to start at a price considered to be too expensive to be a Chevy, just give the car to Cadillac. GM's image will still get a fantastic boost, it would do great things in the battle against Lexus and the Lexus green image, and they could demand the price necessary to break even on it.
 

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Toyota sold the first generation Prius at a loss.

GM should do the same for the Volt. It's an emerging technology that will dominate the market. Experience should be what should try to attain now.

And no, I don't think it should be a Cadillac.
Toyota had the capital to selectively sell certain products at a loss. They make enough on their other products to cover it.

GM does not.

If you make an average of, say, $2,000/car you sell, then you bring out another product and sell it for a loss of $1,000/car, you're still making money overall.

Not to mention the fact Toyota is securely in the black in the bank. GM, again, not so much.
 
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