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You are behaving exceptionally bearish about GM's EV reveals today, Ed.
I guess $100,000+ pick-ups don't excite me? I was actually afraid this was going to be priced over $80,000 just to understand where I was mentally.

I guess the 26 EV's in Q4 and only 1 Hummer didn't help, nor the 43% sales decline, put that, on top of the cobbled plan for heated/cooled seats and steering wheels?................yeah.

I actually kind of like where GM is going, and really pleased they finally did the interior of the Silverado and Sierra right, (although I don't know why they felt the need to make them different, I like the Chevy version better) and I can sort of see "what they want to do" but I also see "what they are actually doing" which only adds to my angst.
 

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I guess $100,000+ pick-ups don't excite me? I was actually afraid this was going to be priced over $80,000 just to understand where I was mentally.

I guess the 26 EV's in Q4 and only 1 Hummer didn't help, nor the 43% sales decline, put that, on top of the cobbled plan for heated/cooled seats and steering wheels?................yeah.

I actually kind of like where GM is going, and really pleased they finally did the interior of the Silverado and Sierra right, (although I don't know why they felt the need to make them different, I like the Chevy version better) and I can sort of see "what they want to do" but I also see "what they are actually doing" which only adds to my angst.
That's just the "first edition", essentially a fully loaded collector's item. The truck will be available in larger quantities, and in prices as low as $40,000.
 

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That's just the "first edition", essentially a fully loaded collector's item. The truck will be available in larger quantities, and in prices as low as $40,000.
The "Steel Wheel Special" yeah, no-thanks...........

This is speculation from a Car & Driver Story, let's see how close this is to reality, but 1st Edition is still 2+ years away, so these other are even farther away.

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I guess $100,000+ pick-ups don't excite me? I was actually afraid this was going to be priced over $80,000 just to understand where I was mentally.

I guess the 26 EV's in Q4 and only 1 Hummer didn't help, nor the 43% sales decline, put that, on top of the cobbled plan for heated/cooled seats and steering wheels?................yeah.

I actually kind of like where GM is going, and really pleased they finally did the interior of the Silverado and Sierra right, (although I don't know why they felt the need to make them different, I like the Chevy version better) and I can sort of see "what they want to do" but I also see "what they are actually doing" which only adds to my angst.
How could you be afraid the Silverado EV would be priced over $80,000 when Ford's Lightning EV is priced well over $80,000 and it is just a patchwork of old and new tech so they could claim "FIRST!"?

The Silverado EV pricing chart you posted above fairly-well matches up (until RST) with the Lightning pricing structure even though the Ford uses an old body, on an old platform that's been converted for EV duty. That most expensive spot the Silverado reaches ($108,000 est.) is a first-edition, performance trim and they will sell every one. I said it at Lightning's introduction, they left a LOT on the table by not making the "Lightning" a specific, top-end, high-performance EV super-truck in the vein of the GT500... it would have been legendary and they could have charged more than the RST's $108,000, and I think they would not have been able to make enough. Instead, Chevy did RST.

I'd say it's pretty amazing that the all-new-from-the-ground-up Silverado EV, with superior range, costs roughly the same as the cobbled-together, first-gen Lightning EVs. No offense intended but your position is bearish.
 

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How could you be afraid the Silverado EV would be priced over $80,000 when Ford's Lightning EV is priced well over $80,000 and it is just a patchwork of old and new tech so they could claim "FIRST!"?

The Silverado EV pricing chart you posted above fairly-well matches up (until RST) with the Lightning pricing structure even though the Ford uses an old body, on an old platform that's been converted for EV duty. That most expensive spot the Silverado reaches ($108,000 est.) is a first-edition, performance trim and they will sell every one. I said it at Lightning's introduction, they left a LOT on the table by not making the "Lightning" a specific, top-end, high-performance EV super-truck in the vein of the GT500... it would have been legendary and they could have charged more than the RST's $108,000, and I think they would not have been able to make enough. Instead, Chevy did RST.

I'd say it's pretty amazing that the all-new-from-the-ground-up Silverado EV, with superior range, costs roughly the same as the cobbled-together, first-gen Lightning EVs. No offense intended but your position is bearish.
Do you think there were advantages to using a "cobbled-together" platform? It is arguably one of the best 1/2 ton trucks on the road, reduced development time and economies of scale come to mind. The Silverado EV is a "good EV Truck Platform" but is it a "Good Truck"? The Platinum Lighting only seems cheap because GM went full "ELR Pricing Model" with the Hummer and Silverado.

Despite Ford being behind GM, they've got 200,000 reservations and have already announced 2 production expansions; Chevy has 1,200? Why is it the first ones we are going to see from GM are going to be some cheap-azz (and ugly) $40K Fleet Truck?

We don't know costs, but are we talking "unit costs" or "total costs" GM shut down a plant, killed product (several years ago) to put gobs of money in a plant to make 1,000 trucks in its 3rd year, amortize that?.... GM is spending a million per truck.

Here is a question, that I've thought about since we saw the new Silverado (and pricing).........
The current Silverado and F150 (in ICE form) are good trucks, right? Would an EV version of the current Silverado truck be that bad? ($15-20,000 less than the Silverado EV pricing of course)

FWIW: I don't have much interest in the F150 EV either.
 

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Do you think there were advantages to using a "cobbled-together" platform? It is arguably one of the best 1/2 ton trucks on the road, reduced development time and economies of scale come to mind. The Silverado EV is a "good EV Truck Platform" but is it a "Good Truck"? The Platinum Lighting only seems cheap because GM went full "ELR Pricing Model" with the Hummer and Silverado.

Despite Ford being behind GM, they've got 200,000 reservations and have already announced 2 production expansions; Chevy has 1,200? Why is it the first ones we are going to see from GM are going to be some cheap-azz (and ugly) $40K Fleet Truck?

We don't know costs, but are we talking "unit costs" or "total costs" GM shut down a plant, killed product (several years ago) to put gobs of money in a plant to make 1,000 trucks in its 3rd year, amortize that?.... GM is spending a million per truck.

Here is a question, that I've thought about since we saw the new Silverado (and pricing).........
The current Silverado and F150 (in ICE form) are good trucks, right? Would an EV version of the current Silverado truck be that bad? ($15-20,000 less than the Silverado EV pricing of course)

FWIW: I don't have much interest in the F150 EV either.
Of course there are advantages to cobbling, such as short-term corporate cost savings and development speed (ergo marketing/bragging rights and publicly appearing to be ahead). These superficial outcomes were predicted and hashed-out here long ago but it's no secret Ford is behind GM in the EV tech race. Both companies took different routes to an EV future and time will tell if one was 'better' but Ford is still cobbling and partnering in the EV game; yes, cobbling better than GM but nonetheless still cobbling. GM's early, eggs-in-one-basket approach was mercilessly mocked... but they are no longer cobbling (Bolt/EUV), they are already in the next phase: selling dedicated EVs (Hummer, Brightdrop) on interchangeable proprietary platforms.

Don't get me wrong I like the Lightning but Ford cobbled it so F-150 would be first. If repurposing ICE vehicles into BEVs was as advantageous as you imply Ford wouldn't be wasting effort on dedicated BEV platforms. Neither would any other manufacturer. They would all be developing interchangeable drive platforms but they are not. GM's Ultiums are not just ahead of the game but are already showing up on the streets.

Is the Silverado EV a good truck, you ask? Anyone who answers that yes or no at this point reveals their bias. Same with the Lightning.
 

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Of course there are advantages to cobbling, such as short-term corporate cost savings and development speed (ergo marketing/bragging rights and publicly appearing to be ahead). These superficial outcomes were predicted and hashed-out here long ago but it's no secret Ford is behind GM in the EV tech race. Both companies took different routes to an EV future and time will tell if one was 'better' but Ford is still cobbling and partnering in the EV game; yes, cobbling better than GM but nonetheless still cobbling. GM's early, eggs-in-one-basket approach was mercilessly mocked... but they are no longer cobbling (Bolt/EUV), they are already in the next phase: selling dedicated EVs (Hummer, Brightdrop) on interchangeable proprietary platforms.

Don't get me wrong I like the Lightning but Ford cobbled it so F-150 would be first. If repurposing ICE vehicles into BEVs was as advantageous as you imply Ford wouldn't be wasting effort on dedicated BEV platforms. Neither would any other manufacturer. They would all be developing interchangeable drive platforms but they are not. GM's Ultiums are not just ahead of the game but are already showing up on the streets.

Is the Silverado EV a good truck, you ask? Anyone who answers that yes or no at this point reveals their bias. Same with the Lightning.
"Bragging Rights" How about "selling trucks", or "building a customer base"?

I never said a modified ICE truck is going to make a better EV, than a dedicated, purpose built design EV, I merely asked if you would acknowledge the benefits, based on your "cobbled" tag and other comments, you can't do that, whatever.........

Let's keep score:
Ford F150 Lightning - 0
GMC Hummer EV - 1
GMC Sierra EV -0
Chevy Silverado EV - 0

That's 2021 unit sales, just in case you were wondering, what do your think the score will be 12 months from now?

We could do Brightdrop Vans too, GM sold 6........
 
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"Bragging Rights" How about "selling trucks", or "building a customer base"?

I never said a modified ICE truck is going to make a better EV, than a dedicated, purpose built design EV, I merely asked if you would acknowledge the benefits, based on your "cobbled" tag and other comments, you can't do that, whatever.........

Let's keep score:
Ford F150 Lightning - 0
GMC Hummer EV - 1
GMC Sierra EV -0
Chevy Silverado EV - 0

That's 2021 unit sales, just in case you were wondering, what do your think the score will be 12 months from now?

We could do Brightdrop Vans too, GM sold 6........
Unless my math is flawed, and I ran it twice, your own chart shows GM has a decisive lead. Seriously even 12 months from now seems a little premature to use sales figures to evaluate or compare strategic effectiveness during possibly the biggest shift in American automotive history, particularly with the dichotomy of their approaches. Besides, for better or worse, GM's current power structure doesn't seem interested in legacy trophies like 'most sales'.

At any rate I did acknowledge the benefits you listed for the route Ford took making the Lightning and my comment was that each was a corporate benefit. There is no reason to defend the Lightning, it's got good bones and they are going to sell all they can build, especially with new municipal EV mandates coming online. I've read (correct me if I'm wrong) that by 2026-ish a dedicated EV platform will be ready for use under the next Lightning which should better characterize their longer-term EV vision.
 

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Unless my math is flawed, and I ran it twice, your own chart shows GM has a decisive lead. Seriously even 12 months from now seems a little premature to use sales figures to evaluate or compare strategic effectiveness during possibly the biggest shift in American automotive history, particularly with the dichotomy of their approaches. Besides, for better or worse, GM's current power structure doesn't seem interested in legacy trophies like 'most sales'.
I don't even know what you are trying to argue about.
"Your own chart shows GM has a decisive lead" - What chart!?

You say GM has a decisive lead, then state 12 months is premature to look at sales figures, then dismiss it because GM isn't interested about legacy trophies, like 'most sales'? Being on all sides of the argument much; I guess you win, but is this one of those legacy trophies, like 'most sales' GM isn't interested in?


At any rate I did acknowledge the benefits you listed for the route Ford took making the Lightning and my comment was that each was a corporate benefit. There is no reason to defend the Lightning, it's got good bones and they are going to sell all they can build, especially with new municipal EV mandates coming online. I've read (correct me if I'm wrong) that by 2026-ish a dedicated EV platform will be ready for use under the next Lightning which should better characterize their longer-term EV vision.
We still don't know where this "EV Movement" is going, but if anyone; GM better hope it doesn't progress too fast, with all those 'retail' ICE; Pick-up and SUV sales.......... 😉
 

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I don't even know what you are trying to argue about.
"Your own chart shows GM has a decisive lead" - What chart!?

You say GM has a decisive lead, then state 12 months is premature to look at sales figures, then dismiss it because GM isn't interested about legacy trophies, like 'most sales'? Being on all sides of the argument much; I guess you win, but is this one of those legacy trophies, like 'most sales' GM isn't interested in?




We still don't know where this "EV Movement" is going, but if anyone; GM better hope it doesn't progress too fast, with all those 'retail' ICE; Pick-up and SUV sales.......... 😉
Yeah, you probably want to have your sarcasm detector cleaned. It could have saved you a whole lot of typing.
 

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Regardless of what company it is, it's funny that company x would tout "reservations of vehicle X sold out in 19 minutes" and then not give a figure.

For all we know that could've been 5 of them. You know if it were a huge number, they'd have shouted it from the rooftops.
 

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1200 first edition RST’s will be built….:D
Regardless of what company it is, it's funny that company x would tout "reservations of vehicle X sold out in 19 minutes" and then not give a figure.

For all we know that could've been 5 of them. You know if it were a huge number, they'd have shouted it from the rooftops.
The post quoted above yours is your answer. 🧐 😜
 

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Do you think there were advantages to using a "cobbled-together" platform? It is arguably one of the best 1/2 ton trucks on the road, reduced development time and economies of scale come to mind. The Silverado EV is a "good EV Truck Platform" but is it a "Good Truck"? The Platinum Lighting only seems cheap because GM went full "ELR Pricing Model" with the Hummer and Silverado.

Despite Ford being behind GM, they've got 200,000 reservations and have already announced 2 production expansions; Chevy has 1,200? Why is it the first ones we are going to see from GM are going to be some cheap-azz (and ugly) $40K Fleet Truck?

We don't know costs, but are we talking "unit costs" or "total costs" GM shut down a plant, killed product (several years ago) to put gobs of money in a plant to make 1,000 trucks in its 3rd year, amortize that?.... GM is spending a million per truck.

Here is a question, that I've thought about since we saw the new Silverado (and pricing).........
The current Silverado and F150 (in ICE form) are good trucks, right? Would an EV version of the current Silverado truck be that bad? ($15-20,000 less than the Silverado EV pricing of course)

FWIW: I don't have much interest in the F150 EV either.
Yes, I was figuring 80K too so 107K caught me off guard. If Car and Driver is right a 75K LTZ is like almost 20 grand more than an LTZ today. Not sure how that is affordable… They need to be priced within 5K of a comparable ICE and have 500 miles of range to get any traction in my view. Even when they do those two things I will resist and run ICE until I can’t make it work.
 
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Yeah, you probably want to have your sarcasm detector cleaned. It could have saved you a whole lot of typing.
Great, look at the bright side; your math isn't wrong!

Regardless of what company it is, it's funny that company x would tout "reservations of vehicle X sold out in 19 minutes" and then not give a figure.

For all we know that could've been 5 of them. You know if it were a huge number, they'd have shouted it from the rooftops.
The good news, if (when) they have have some buyers back-out, the number is so small they can fill it without many even knowing.
 
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