Chevroelt Cobalt SS - Official Photos

Originally posted by briandors+Jan 20 2004, 11:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (briandors @ Jan 20 2004, 11:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-spdwayGm@Jan 18 2004, 05:11 PM
While I like the GTO (1) it aint a Chevy, (2)there are imited number of them for sale and (3) the dreaded Dealer's price adjustment make it not a candidate for purchase.

Click to expand...

Wanting to own a Chevy is cool... but the other two reasons don't really make sense. First, any car that is limited in production number stands to hold its resale value much better. Which ties into my second point, you can definitely buy the GTO for sticker price, not all dealers are adding markup and those that are will soon stop because they're losing money. There are 18,000 of them coming over here! That's not small potatoes. I believe by summer the GTO will be selling below sticker.

That said, I hope the Camaro is styled more aggressively than the 04 GTO.

Brian [/b][/quote]
18,000 is not small potatoes. It's less than that. The Mustang's annual sales of around 130,000 units is considered to be small potatoes. If the 'Stang wasn't such an icon and didn't help attract customers to the showroom, the business case for it would be very, very tough to make. Now, 18,000 units is nothing. Even the Korean companies have a tough time getting excited about selling 18,000 units of one vehicle.

You say that limited production means it will hold its resale value better, yet you say later that you'll be able to get the GTO at below sticker. That just doesn't add up. Anybody who gets a GTO below sticker is getting it through an employee discount plan of some sort. Those 18,000 units will be gone pretty quickly, and yes, some will be sold at well over MSRP, because there are people who simply must have them, no matter the price. Same happened with the 03 Cobra, and same will happen with the new Mustang GT, the new Corvette, and the new Camaro (presuming that ever materializes). 18,000 units is not nearly enough for the laws of supply and demand to force the price down to below sticker.

Originally posted by awalbert88@Jan 21 2004, 12:49 AM
18,000 is not small potatoes. It's less than that.
<snip>
You say that limited production means it will hold its resale value better, yet you say later that you'll be able to get the GTO at below sticker. That just doesn't add up.
<snip>
Anybody who gets a GTO below sticker is getting it through an employee discount plan of some sort. Those 18,000 units will be gone pretty quickly, and yes, some will be sold at well over MSRP, because there are people who simply must have them, no matter the price.
<snip>
Same happened with the 03 Cobra
<snip>

Click to expand...

In its final years, I believe the Camaro plus the Firebird sold about 70k units together. The majority were V6s selling for $20,000. Those people aren't likely shopping for a GTO. So now you're down to about 30k units of V8s. The GTO may be light years ahead of the F bodys in quality but it's also significantly more money than the AVERAGE V8 f-body. So 18k units when there's demand for 30k units at a 6 or 7 thousand dollar increase means the current GTO will NOT sell out ridiculously fast.
Especially since the '05 will have more power, nicer wheels, and more aggressive styling. Many people will choose to wait when this becomes more publicly known.

So the GTO will sell for sticker for several months, then it will be slightly discounted to move as the '05's come in. Compare that to the 04 Grand Prix which was discounted pretty much from day one. That's why I said the GTO will hold its value a little better than most cars, but will end up being discounted later. When I said discounted, I hope it didn't come across as 3 or 4 thousand. I'd say $500 off at the end of the 04 model run.

03 Cobras were only holding their value early on. Couple months back I could have gotten into one for 3k under sticker.

I stand behind what I said: anyone who pays over sticker wants one today and is not willing to comparison shop. There are dealers all over the country selling right at sticker. A certain GTO fan site might help anyone interested in getting a fair deal. ;-)

Brian

Originally posted by briandors+Jan 21 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (briandors @ Jan 21 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-awalbert88@Jan 21 2004, 12:49 AM
18,000 is not small potatoes.  It's less than that.
<snip>
You say that limited production means it will hold its resale value better, yet you say later that you'll be able to get the GTO at below sticker.  That just doesn't add up.
<snip>
Anybody who gets a GTO below sticker is getting it through an employee discount plan of some sort.  Those 18,000 units will be gone pretty quickly, and yes, some will be sold at well over MSRP, because there are people who simply must have them, no matter the price.
<snip>
Same happened with the 03 Cobra
<snip>

Click to expand...

In its final years, I believe the Camaro plus the Firebird sold about 70k units together. The majority were V6s selling for $20,000. Those people aren't likely shopping for a GTO. So now you're down to about 30k units of V8s. The GTO may be light years ahead of the F bodys in quality but it's also significantly more money than the AVERAGE V8 f-body. So 18k units when there's demand for 30k units at a 6 or 7 thousand dollar increase means the current GTO will NOT sell out ridiculously fast.
Especially since the '05 will have more power, nicer wheels, and more aggressive styling. Many people will choose to wait when this becomes more publicly known.

So the GTO will sell for sticker for several months, then it will be slightly discounted to move as the '05's come in. Compare that to the 04 Grand Prix which was discounted pretty much from day one. That's why I said the GTO will hold its value a little better than most cars, but will end up being discounted later. When I said discounted, I hope it didn't come across as 3 or 4 thousand. I'd say $500 off at the end of the 04 model run.

03 Cobras were only holding their value early on. Couple months back I could have gotten into one for 3k under sticker.

I stand behind what I said: anyone who pays over sticker wants one today and is not willing to comparison shop. There are dealers all over the country selling right at sticker. A certain GTO fan site might help anyone interested in getting a fair deal. ;-)

Brian [/b][/quote]
I belive they sold more then 70k between the 2. I think the figure is more closer to 90k. Actualy, V8 sales made up half or more. The Fbody has become a performance-only type car. Where as the mustang is more of an every day car. From what I understand, this is how people think of the 2 cars. Most people that own an fbody dont like the GTO because its not an fbody. Some do, and the crowd is growing, but 7 times out of 10, you will find someone who doesnt like the GTO, just based on how it looks. I see some rebates, but with GM and everyone pulling up off the rebates, and Pontiac really trying to get back its image, I dont think you will see anything major. And like someone said, 500 bucks would probably be what you see. It could be more in one place or another based on demand, but thats what GM is gunna give.

as for the cobalt on a kappa... I wouldnt like to see that at all really. Keep it FWD and keep the sport compact freaks happy. Leave RWD to the big boys. 17 year old kids that get these cars wont like the way teh car handles in the snow. FWD will sell a lot more because parents like to hear FWD and think saftey.

Originally posted by briandors+Jan 21 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (briandors @ Jan 21 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-awalbert88@Jan 21 2004, 12:49 AM
18,000 is not small potatoes.  It's less than that.
<snip>
You say that limited production means it will hold its resale value better, yet you say later that you'll be able to get the GTO at below sticker.  That just doesn't add up.
<snip>
Anybody who gets a GTO below sticker is getting it through an employee discount plan of some sort.  Those 18,000 units will be gone pretty quickly, and yes, some will be sold at well over MSRP, because there are people who simply must have them, no matter the price.
<snip>
Same happened with the 03 Cobra
<snip>

Click to expand...

In its final years, I believe the Camaro plus the Firebird sold about 70k units together. The majority were V6s selling for $20,000. Those people aren't likely shopping for a GTO. So now you're down to about 30k units of V8s. The GTO may be light years ahead of the F bodys in quality but it's also significantly more money than the AVERAGE V8 f-body. So 18k units when there's demand for 30k units at a 6 or 7 thousand dollar increase means the current GTO will NOT sell out ridiculously fast.
Especially since the '05 will have more power, nicer wheels, and more aggressive styling. Many people will choose to wait when this becomes more publicly known.

So the GTO will sell for sticker for several months, then it will be slightly discounted to move as the '05's come in. Compare that to the 04 Grand Prix which was discounted pretty much from day one. That's why I said the GTO will hold its value a little better than most cars, but will end up being discounted later. When I said discounted, I hope it didn't come across as 3 or 4 thousand. I'd say $500 off at the end of the 04 model run.

03 Cobras were only holding their value early on. Couple months back I could have gotten into one for 3k under sticker.

I stand behind what I said: anyone who pays over sticker wants one today and is not willing to comparison shop. There are dealers all over the country selling right at sticker. A certain GTO fan site might help anyone interested in getting a fair deal. ;-)

Brian [/b][/quote]
Your logic is somewhat flawed I think.

You seem to be suggesting that the GTO's customer would have been the same people as F-Body customer.

Just to let you know I am seriously considering a GTO, but I have never seriously considered buying an F-body, and I know for a fact I would never ever buy one.

My current car is a BMW Z3. My aspirational car is an ///M5 but unfortunately I probably couldn't comfortably afford more than 40-45k for my next car.

To sort of quote Jeremy Clarkson, I am viewing this GTO as a cut-rate ///M5.

Its almost identically proportioned to the ///M5, has very similar driving dynamics from what everyone with experience has said, and its interior is more BMW than Pontiac.

I will be completely honest in that I am not a Pontiac enthusiast (or a GM enthusiast) but their recent offerring have this BMW fanboy checking them out very closely (XLR, Solstice, CTS-V, C6, GTO, and even the G6 to some extent).

Sorry if I am being long-winded but I think you guys are selling the GTO short if you think its customer base is going to be former F-body guys (although I am sure there will be plenty of those).

But for me the GTO is basically competing with the 330ci, G35c, and to some extent the RX-8 and the IS300.

Oh...I better be more on topic...

I think the Cobalt will be an excellent compact car! B)

I dont think the GTO is aimed at former Fbody owners. Most 4th gen fbody owners hate this car for reasons unknown. Is it that there car is dead, and this is the car they replaced it with? I guess its like Step-parent syndrome. When the one parent finds a new spouse, the kids dont like the spouse because its not there mom or dad. Maybe because the car is that much better then there forgone fbody that they just get upset that they wish for there car to be that well made. And then there is the looks that dont scream muscle car. As an Fbody owner, and a up and coming car buyer, I want a car that has good luxury, style, afordability, and of course, so much power that it snaps and breaks parts in the car next to me. I think this car is for people that want fbody like speed, with higher quality and practicality. Not exactly like Delorean had it in 64, but still its a cool car. As a Z3 owner, and BMW owner over all, I dont think you have ever felt the thrust of an american V8 in a long time, if at all. Though the LS1 doesnt have the off the line torque-feel stock, a moddified LS1 can rip the treds right off a tire. I would definatly get a GTO as a great and powerful daily driver, while my fbody would be my sports car/weekend cruzer that scares away old people, women, and small defenseless children. :woot2:

and yes, I think the cobalt will be biting at the heals of civic and corrola buyers looking for something a little closer to home.