GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,071 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Automobile production in Brazil, Russia, India and China will surpass that of North America - traditionally the world's largest car market - for the first time in 2008.

A study by a Canadian bank shows a drop in American auto production that reflects plant closures by traditional US automakers while assembly capacity in emerging nations has increased 15 percent a year for the past five years as automakers built new plants in "key" markets that offered greater growth potential and lower-cost manufacturing.

Rest of story here...

http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=4324933&fSectionId=753&fSetId=381
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,892 Posts
pathetic
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,621 Posts
Refuse to accept cashback and incentives on your next American designed and built and badged car. Pay MSRP... that is a start towards keeping production in America. If cars have to be discounted to the point where a company isn't making anything on them then you're going to see production move out of th US and into cheaper locations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
Refuse to accept cashback and incentives on your next American designed and built and badged car. Pay MSRP... that is a start towards keeping production in America. If cars have to be discounted to the point where a company isn't making anything on them then you're going to see production move out of th US and into cheaper locations.
The US consumer would never go down this route, there's not near enough financial discipline to do such. Nor is there any overwhelming pride in our own country to support this action.

So what are we left with..... Well the major one is however a failure of our government to set up trade policies that are fair to both sides. Not doing so has left us with an enormous trade deficit year after year and it only continues to get worse. Goods imported into this country should not be so cheap it makes for mass exit of our manufacturing and production of tangible goods as the jobs leave right with it. As the jobs leave so does the wealth or buying power. Thus in the end the economy tanks. And no service oriented jobs aren't the savior. Hard fast industrialized manufacturing is the core of which needs to remain in tact, but it's fading fast.

I get a reminder of this every day down one of the hallways here at work. All of Ross Perot's charts from his two presidential campaigns. NAFTA, trade deficit, job loss, reflected in just about every way it can be extrapolated. As I walk past it's amazing how true these scenarios that were laid out 15/20 years ago have come true.

We are consumer whores, but there's no checks to put a balance on it like a good trade agreement should have. The "free" in free trade agreement isn't "free", as we going to pay for it one way or other int he long term, and it's likely to hurt big.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
104 Posts
Refuse to accept cashback and incentives on your next American designed and built and badged car. Pay MSRP... that is a start towards keeping production in America. If cars have to be discounted to the point where a company isn't making anything on them then you're going to see production move out of th US and into cheaper locations.[/quote

It is a shame that we are in this type of outsourcing mode... But is completely our own fault. The Consumer is to blame, the dealers are to blame for not standing behind the value and not selling the value, and the manufacturer created this environment making up for sub par product. Saturns idea of pure pricing would work if they would have had competative product. It shows by the increase in quality has drive people to Saturn stores and they have some buzz in the industry. It is a small step but it is more than the rest have done to turn this basket case around.

Big cash off is a crutch for quality. Build right and Price right and Sell right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,686 Posts
In the past we had a tariff policy which kept jobs in America by removing the advantage of products made in nation's with a weak currency or lack of labor laws and low living standards.

I like how they replaced out sourcing with "key" markets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
102 Posts
The post only says "Automobile production in Brazil, Russia, India and China will surpass that of North America - traditionally the world's largest car market - for the first time in 2008." Why not? These nations economy are rapidly expanding.

I believe we are all the masters of our own destiny. If a nation or its people are determined, intelligent and most importantly work hard, they will grow and succeed.

On the other hand if a nation or it's people are self serving, devided, confrontational in the workplace, spend too much time reading between the lines, race each other to the next red light light, or any other childish act you can think of we do here in North America then our economy and manufacturing base will decline likewise.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,586 Posts
The vast majority of production in these countries are for local sales (for now anyways). China, India, Russia and Brazil are also like the worlds 1, 2, 5 & 7 largest countries so there is a huge market for these individuals coming out of the stone age and into the consumer world.

Also they aren't hampered and regulated by gas, emissions, safety, lawyers gone wild, runaway juries, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,512 Posts
More people in these countries and buying cars, so more cars are being built in these countries. Duh. None of these cars are currently sold in the United States.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,886 Posts
The vast majority of production in these countries are for local sales (for now anyways). China, India, Russia and Brazil are also like the worlds 1, 2, 5 & 7 largest countries so there is a huge market for these individuals coming out of the stone age and into the consumer world.
Very true. If they are talking of a "percentage" or "ratio" of vehicles, then of course this would hold true: as folks in other markets start to drive more and more cars, the ratio would tip in their favor because they were less of a factor before in the equation.

Also they aren't hampered and regulated by gas, emissions, safety, lawyers gone wild, runaway juries, etc.
There is certainly something to the last part of your statement.

Everyone wants great safety standards, etc - and should be obeserved.

However, some of the other factrors - excess business regulations, legal liabilities, etc - DO act as constraints on businesses.

I was reading an article that says our corporate taxes are among the WORST in the world and that America is slipping from the places to invest. That's really shameful; but part of the blame is on excess taxes, regulations, burdensome bureaucratic nonsense, etc.

Just to give you an idea of how bad it CAN get, come to Jersey and see. Up until 5 years ago, we were still ranked among the better places to start/move a business, find qualified employees, etc because of the "brain base". That has been erroded due to political corruption, relentless spending, harsh government regulations, excess bureaucratic red-tape, etc.

Folks have been fleeing NJ for the better part of 8 years -- but now so are businesses. Last years was the first year that more folks left NJ than came in (first time since the 1940s that has happend). And a majority of those leaving are not poor folks with no money - they are middle income to wealth individuals who can't take getting pick-pocketed forever and have the means to get up and go. Those moving in are folks making far less than the state average and are seeking some kind of handout.

That could be a glimpse for the rest of the country if you sell out to every small interest group out their and sacrifice the good of everyone else.

Our system (from Alexander Hamilton's framework) was to be based on private industry. Without private industry and private businesses nothing else works. It is the hub that creates jobs, increases the standard of living, creates more capital, provides the basis for taxes, allow philanthropy to exist, creates the means from which charities derive their income, enables personal wealth, etc.

Point is that when businesses start to fail, many of the faults can be laid at the feet of government and their endless meddling.

Just my two cents
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,455 Posts
Refuse to accept cashback and incentives on your next American designed and built and badged car. Pay MSRP... that is a start towards keeping production in America. If cars have to be discounted to the point where a company isn't making anything on them then you're going to see production move out of th US and into cheaper locations.[/quote

It is a shame that we are in this type of outsourcing mode... But is completely our own fault. The Consumer is to blame, the dealers are to blame for not standing behind the value and not selling the value, and the manufacturer created this environment making up for sub par product. Saturns idea of pure pricing would work if they would have had competative product. It shows by the increase in quality has drive people to Saturn stores and they have some buzz in the industry. It is a small step but it is more than the rest have done to turn this basket case around.

Big cash off is a crutch for quality. Build right and Price right and Sell right.
AHEM....

The complainers won't like this very much but here's the 'other side of the coin' so to speak. For the better part of the 80's and 90's I was a supplier to the Big 3 here. I sold steel to all three and to a wide variety of their subcontractors ( stamper, parts makers ). All of our steel came from Europe.

The Big 3 essentially gave the US integrated steel mills the following orders back in the early 80's..'Either you modernize and produce world class steel like the Japanese, Germans and French or we will drop you in the trash like last week's fish..'

Well the likes of Bethlehem, LTV, USS and Armco couldn't move fast enough and the Big 3 automakers made good on their threats and bought all the top quality steel from the better producers in Europe and Japan. Funny how what goes around comes around. I sold $Millions of steel to all three for 15-20 yrs. Your GM truck, Ford Mustang, Chrysler everything and all Jeeps was wrapped in my steel and rode on tires made from my steel from europe.

This is hardly a new trend. It actually began with the Big 3 themselves. Funny how what goes around.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44,160 Posts
The US consumer would never go down this route, there's not near enough financial discipline to do such. Nor is there any overwhelming pride in our own country to support this action.

We are consumer whores, but there's no checks to put a balance on it like a good trade agreement should have. The "free" in free trade agreement isn't "free", as we going to pay for it one way or other int he long term, and it's likely to hurt big.
We are "consumer whores" because that's how this economy is run. The government expects the country to continue spending; therefore, the economy continues to plow forward.
But there is a limit to that, and this recessionary economy is going to prove that to a whole lotta people and businesses.
The United States and Americans cannot continue to spend, just to spend. Financial stability and restraint needs to be exercised.

And if that means, we dont buy cars and other goods, so be it.

But that also means that, as the United States hasn't been investing solidly to its manufacturing base, there really isn't much else the US can do. Cost of workers in the US far surpasses the cost in other countries. So, companies go where they can get the most "bang for buck."

So, Unless America can compete with those jobs effectively, we're not going anywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,770 Posts
Automobile production in Brazil, Russia, India and China will surpass that of North America - traditionally the world's largest car market - for the first time in 2008.

A study by a Canadian bank shows a drop in American auto production that reflects plant closures by traditional US automakers while assembly capacity in emerging nations has increased 15 percent a year for the past five years as automakers built new plants in "key" markets that offered greater growth potential and lower-cost manufacturing.

Rest of story here...

http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=4324933&fSectionId=753&fSetId=381
What troubles me most about this post is the lack of response. There should be two hundred people talking about this situation. Instead, less than a dozen. Howevever, we'll see 200+ posts about the new Camaro spoiler pics.

The American auto industry is vanishing right before our eyes, and yet people are worried about their next car having two cup holders.

The American Banking industry is being purchased at a bargain rate by the Saudis and Chinese at an historical rate, yet people are concerned more about installing wood flooring in their homes this summer.

American manufacturing jobs have all but disappeared, yet people are complaining that the nearest WalMart is too far away - a 20 minute drive.

Gas prices are going to up, and there' no looking back, yet people are complaining about V8s not being offerend in their favorite family sedan.

We're screwed people. And we deserve it. We're like the spoiled child at christmas time, who revieved 100 presents, yet threw a tantrum because he got the red Power Ranger instead of the blue Power Ranger.

I am a die-hard American, but it is difficult being one, when the news spends 20 minutes on Britney Spears new hair cut, and 10 seconds total on the dead in Iraq, forclosures by the minute, spiraling health car costs, the unexmployment situation and rising energy costs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Refuse to accept cashback and incentives on your next American designed and built and badged car. Pay MSRP... that is a start towards keeping production in America. If cars have to be discounted to the point where a company isn't making anything on them then you're going to see production move out of th US and into cheaper locations.[/quote

It is a shame that we are in this type of outsourcing mode... But is completely our own fault. The Consumer is to blame, the dealers are to blame for not standing behind the value and not selling the value, and the manufacturer created this environment making up for sub par product. Saturns idea of pure pricing would work if they would have had competative product. It shows by the increase in quality has drive people to Saturn stores and they have some buzz in the industry. It is a small step but it is more than the rest have done to turn this basket case around.

Big cash off is a crutch for quality. Build right and Price right and Sell right.
Part 1: You forgot the government. If the government hadn't developed and maintained laws that allowed the union to be so strong, the big three may have done a better job with plant efficiency. Where is the incentive to implement JIT when the savings go into the job bank, not the bottom line?

Part 2: The big 3 should not play the "value" card because it makes customers focus on price and bean-counters focus on cost. Value is how you enter a market - it is not sustainable. I believe GM [via Lutz] is changing this so things might get better... just need 10 years to fix the perception in the buying public...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,071 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What's insane is that companies are now looking for even cheaper labour countries to build products in. Places like Malaysia, Thailand, and Argentina are getting too expensive to produce in, according to some manufacturers...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Unfortunately as a general consumer, there is not much we as individuals can do to right the ship except:

1. Political parties aside, vote for candidates that work towards increasing the manufacturing base as a whole in the US in edition to balancing the budget and trade deficiet.

2. Buy American made products whenever possible....even if it means paying a little more. This is getting much more difficult these days....

3. Increase our energy efficiencies in any way we can, whether is caulking your windows at home, walking to places you are able to walk to, bringing cloth bags to the super market, etc...

These are just a few examples of a few relatively simple things that everyone could do, but many don't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,882 Posts
Car Production Moving To Third World
In regards to Brazil, Russia, India and China; they are all Second World countries. Third World Countries, in regards to income per capital are less than $1,000 per year:

Third World Countries in terms of their Gross National Income (GNI)

Countries with the least gross national income based on purchasing-power-parity (PPP) per capita in int'l Dollars.
Simplified the GNI PPP is the average annual income earned by a citizen of a country.
That means for example, a citizen of Malawi can spend $ 1.6 a day to make a living,
a citizen of Eritrea $ 2.5, the average US citizen spends $ 114 daily.

Below countries with an average yearly income per capita and year under $ 1000,
poorest nations first.

Rank

Country
Region

GNI per capita 1 Timor-Leste South-East Asia *400 2 Malawi Eastern Africa 596 3 Somalia Eastern Africa *600 4 Democratic Republic of the Congo Middle Africa 675 5 Tanzania Eastern Africa 720 6 Yemen Middle East 745 7 Burundi Eastern Africa 753 8 Afghanistan Central Asia *800 9 Guinea-Bissau Western Africa 856 10 Ethiopia Eastern Africa 859 11 Niger Western Africa 896 12 Liberia Western Africa *900 13 Sierra Leone Western Africa 901 14 Madagascar Eastern Africa 911 15 Zambia Eastern Africa 911 16 Eritrea Eastern Africa 917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,065 Posts
What's insane is that companies are now looking for even cheaper labour countries to build products in. Places like Malaysia, Thailand, and Argentina are getting too expensive to produce in, according to some manufacturers...
I heard some rumors then there even some inflation increase in China and some begins to check elsewhere like Vietnam, etc....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,882 Posts
I heard some rumors then there even some inflation increase in China and some begins to check elsewhere like Vietnam, etc....
Toyota assembles cars in Vietnam though I believe it is just for that market; Microsoft even has some offices there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,800 Posts
I'm kinda split on the whole trade agreements argument concerning other countries. On one hand, I think if American companies can find a place to produce a prodect without heavy taxation, changing regulations, and without a union workforce with unreasonable demands (I'm not against a union workforce, just against a union workforce that seems to only be interested in its own survival and not that of it workers at times)...well, if that is the case, I'd say we should have the opportunity for 'free trade' and for companies to relocate. ON THE OTHER HAND...there must be a more fair playing field than there is. You can't have a 'free trade' agreement or lack of tarriffs on imported goods...when the other country you are dealing with is doing so without virtually no environmental regulations...with business subsidies from the govt, no child labor laws...no worker protection laws...etc.
Its a political Cliche...but I'm not for 'free trade'...but rather for 'fair trade'.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top