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Discussion Starter #1
Just got the new issue of Car & Driver and I can see hints of how the Uplander, Terazza, Relay, and SV6 will get pummeled next year.

Dead last in the comparo, C&D had this to say about Ford's Freestar:

"Mushy brakes"
"Good off of the line, but soon runs out of breath"
"Interior shapes are simple and straightforward"
"Too expensive, rebate ready from the get go"

4th place's Dodge Caravan:

"Recycled, carry-over body"
"Superior stow & go system"
"Gutless engine, the 3.8L pushrod can't cut it in this crowd"
"Flaccid suspension - a floaty boat"
"Narrow inside, can't match the Japanese"

GM could have avoided one of the complaints by offering the 3.9L engine on up-trim models, and in my opinion it really should.

GM should not be offering a 200 horsepower engine in the "bigger and badder" CSVs unless it can be tuned to supply the grunt and sustained go that is required to place even mid pack. With bigger wheels, tires, a longer shnoz, and a beefed up structure with a long wheel base....sounds like the 3.5L will be dealing with a lot more than 20 hp and 20 torque can make up for...

Last of all, let's hope GM doesn't expect people to pay 35 thousand dollars for a rehash of a platform from 1996. Let's hope the pricing scheme is realistic and appealing, even without the rebates.

A dead last showing is not something GM should settle for...here's hoping GM takes the C&D comparo into consideration when designing the last minute details and the features of the 2006 CSVs...
 

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Originally posted by Ming@May 7 2004, 03:15 AM
"Good off of the line, but soon runs out of breath"
"Recycled, carry-over body"
"Gutless engine, the 3.8L pushrod can't cut it in this crowd"
"Flaccid suspension - a floaty boat"
"Narrow inside, can't match the Japanese"
these are all likely complaints about the CSV's. though the suspension might turn out to be decently sprung. power will likely be a sore point though. as will the fold-n-stow-n-go? no! seating.

what's praiseworthy? some of the interior bits are okay (the overhead console deal, the much-improved dash and interior design), some might like the slight SUV resemblance, GM might be able to keep the price competitive. what would help is if they really pushed safety (will there be stabilitrack? side head airbags? a 5-star crunch rating?). otherwise i'm really not sure how these vans can be trumpeted as best at anything in particular.

BTW, will versatrak AWD be offered on any of the CSV's?
 

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I wonder if Honda's current transmission woes will be noted. If not, then their comapros can be placed in the garbage can.
Have a 98 Grand Caravan with a 3.8L. It has not seen the dealership once and like my 89 Caravan, it starts every time. I have loaded the GC many times to truck the kids off to college. Mileage was in the 20's and the car is comfortable to drive.
I take the so-called car critics with a grain of salt since their engineering knowledge is primitive at best. Anybody can drive a car for 10 miles and write a report on acceleration and number of cup holders.
 

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I hate Car and Driver. They are so biased. The only reason I get them any more is because of the good GM ads... same can be said with Autoweek. If they actually liked GM and said things I'd like to hear I wouldn't spend so much time here.
 

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I wonder though, should we compare the 30K plus minivans from Toyota, et al with the GM minivans? I don't know what they sticker for but it is my uninformed belief that the GM minivans are more for people who want a cheaper minivan so they can still afford to have a sports car, as opposed to blowing the whole wad on a stupid minivan. Anybody have any idea what the new minivan's (I refuse to use CSV) will sticker for?
 

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Originally posted by AmericanREV@May 7 2004, 12:03 PM
I hate Car and Driver. They are so biased. The only reason I get them any more is because of the good GM ads... same can be said with Autoweek. If they actually liked GM and said things I'd like to hear I wouldn't spend so much time here.
So basically what you're saying is that C&D is so biased that they will put the CSVs near last place??? I think they deserve a low ranking actually, they're just stopgags anyways. And plus, they're not biased because they love the CTS, SRX, Corvette, Camaro, XLR, Escalade, Equinox, etc.
 

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LOL Nice pic Ming!
 

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Originally posted by RCtennis3811+May 8 2004, 01:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RCtennis3811 @ May 8 2004, 01:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-AmericanREV@May 7 2004, 12:03 PM
I hate Car and Driver.  They are so biased.  The only reason I get them any more is because of the good GM ads... same can be said with Autoweek.  If they actually liked GM and said things I'd like to hear I wouldn't spend so much time here.
So basically what you're saying is that C&D is so biased that they will put the CSVs near last place??? I think they deserve a low ranking actually, they're just stopgags anyways. And plus, they're not biased because they love the CTS, SRX, Corvette, Camaro, XLR, Escalade, Equinox, etc.[/b][/quote]
What I meant by that is whenever they do like GM the first thing they say is... "to our surprise this is ok (or actually good)." The almost always have a negative attitude towards them. GM makes about 58 (2005MY) give or take products in the US. You said they approve 7, one's not in prodcution.

I just think it's alittle rare to see them like something from the biggest car complany.
 

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I look for C&D to like the CSV's, because besides the fact that they are TERRIBLE rebadges, they do have a "fresh" design and nice interiors... But they will for sure find tons of things wrong with them, it IS C&D.... :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
C&D gave a favorable review to the GMC Canyon, and didn't have much problem with it being a badge job of a Colorado.
 

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I think that C&D is less biased than they were 5 years ago. They've been giving great reviews for the GM models that deserve it. These include the CTS, CTS-V, SRX, XLR. Canyon, Equinox, etc.
 

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Originally posted by RCtennis3811@May 9 2004, 05:31 AM
I think that C&D is less biased than they were 5 years ago. They've been giving great reviews for the GM models that deserve it. These include the CTS, CTS-V, SRX, XLR. Canyon, Equinox, etc.
6 years ago, Car and Driver picked the Pontiac Transport as the top minivan, beating Dodge, Toyota, and Ford. The new Odyssey wasn't out yet.
 

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What makes the Pontiac sportier than the Chevrolet and Saturn versions? I understand that Buick is meant to be upscale, and the Pontiac more sporty, but how does it attempt to differentiate itself? Also, these vans have another selling point; they come with AWD. DC dropped the option to make room for sto-n-go, and Toyota Sienna is now the only non-GM van with the option. <_<
 

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Chrysler only dropped the AWD on the stow&go models.
You can still get AWD, but you can't fold the seats. Chrysler says 4wd is not a very popular option regardless.
 
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