[joey]

When C&D does a min-SUV comparison test, the NOX will be listed near the bottom as the Malibu did. There's no excuse for old lame technology in a new car anymore. I won't mind importing an engine if it was a DOHC 24 valve VVT all alum high tech engine. Don't they make the same old cast iron OHV 3.4L just over the border in upstate NY?

A loaded CRV is 23K MSRP, and you can get a V6 3.3L DOHC 242 lbs of torque Highlander with 3rd row seating for 26K, the middle level trim price of a Nox, so why bother?

 

[joey]

I'm talk'n real world prices in the local newspaper. At least you can get a discount on a Highlander. I saw a V6 for 26K! The AWD LT I saw with 1SD package: leather stearing wheel, shift knob, 6 way seats. 17" tires on it, tow package and radio upgrade was 26,195. Right now maybe you can get $500 off MSRP.

What reliability? The 3.4 has had manifold gasket leaks for years. There's still a class action out there about all the Buick Rendezvous and Asteks still leaking out there on '03 models. How can carring the cast iron weight be good for fuel economy. FWD models only get 19/25 , with a 5sp auto. Read any C&D review on a value GM V6: not as refined as the OHC engines.

If GM want's to put the old tech in there, then don't charge me new tech prices.
LT Trailblazers are advertised for 24K

 

[joey]

True! I'll wait for 2 grand cash back this summer. Go on gmbuypower.com and checkout loaded LT AWD Nox's with 1SE package: 29,300K MSRP. You can't even get all the options yet like side curtain airbags, which would push the car to almost 30K. Some nerve, not even with the Honda Engine

 

[joey]

True, both technologies have been around forever, it's just that when we look at most of the industry, we see OHC as the most common engine technology. I can see where in a large block V8 in a Vette, there's a need for low engine hight and OHV generally are great low torque generators. The 8's power and big intake valves, still has enough HP to keep the power comming in the upper end of the RPM curve but it still falls off.

Even Ford and Chrysler have moved to OHC V6 in most of their products. OHC uses less parts and makes 4 valves per cylinder operation possible. This is a proven technology that also has been around forever but advancements such as VVT now allows the OHC engine to produce a flat torque curve over a wider range then an OHV. Cast iron blocks are cheaper but heavier. Not a big show stopper but there have been issues in the past with iron block/aluminum head warp and head gasket issues due to the use of different metals.

The 3.9L GM is working on only talks about 3 valves per cyl. Why not 4? Too complicaed and too many parts. Many of you say if it aint broke why change it. Well then why is GM trying to build technolgy into OHV when multi-valve OHC works and is what the industry has standardized on. The claim of being cheaper to build must come from using the same block castings for the last 20 years.

In the past , GM has imported technology that it did not have in the US. Globalization makes sense when GM already has a product in Europe/Asia/Australia that would meet US needs. But the 3.5L from Mexico and the 3.4L from China are clear examples of GM looking to expand profit margins by
moving production off shore. The 3.4L was being built in upstate NY, only a few miles from the Nox Canadian plant. Logically the 3.4L could have been used from here and a 3.5L upgrade made in NY also. But I'm sure GM would never think of expanding a manufacturing plant in the NE. The 3.9L sounds like an upgrade for the Mexico and China plants to produce.

 

[joey]

Looking at the specs on the 3.5L 3500 inline five on the Colorado, that would have been a kick *** engine for the Nox. They have it mated up to an Aisin tranny also. With DOHC, 20 valves, all aluminum, chein drivien balance shafts engine and 225 lbs or torque it would have been perfect. It must fit, since the NOX is slightly wider then the Colorado. Trailblazer I6, Nox I5, perfect. And the 3500 is only being made for one pickup truck! I'm suprised an engine like this wasn't used on the Nox/Vue rather then buying the Honda V6. The only issues might be emissions and fuel economy since the Nox/Vue's are clasified as cars? It can't be that much more costly then a V6 since the Nox and Colorado are in the same price range. Well maybe there's hope for a Nox SS in five years.

 

[joey]

Some dealers have a few Nox's already. (Not sure about West coast yet). I'm seeing cheaper TB's then Nox's right now with the discounts.

Posting those 4.6L 90 degree V8 makes the engine look worse. One GM alum block is still using iron sleeves. It's also hard to find engine weights when comparing. On the big 8's OHV and CI blocks might still make sense, but I'm talk'n 6's. I don't think an OHV 4cyl exsists anymore and finding a cast iron 4 cyl block is rare. GM followed the pack on the I6 , I5 , I4 truck engines. All Alum, DOHC 4 vales per cyl. VVT is much easier to implement in OHC. Adding a complicated VVT implementation in your simpler OHV doesn't make sense to me. I'll stay away from any 3.9L car for a few years until this experiment is proven.

 

[joey]

VVT on OHC is usually done by moving the cam to a different lobe position. I would think tring to do that down inside the block would be more complicated. If it were easy it would have been done by now. Dropping the pan each time to fix or adjust something sounds like trouble to me.

 

[joey]

The highest cost to a company is payroll and benefits, so at least most of the money Honda, Toyota makes stays here. I know Honda Accords have a very high local content percentage. So many parts are comming from the US along with the assembly work.

When GM went global years ago in Latin America, Europe, Australia, etc. The only way they were alowed in these markets were to build local plants because of high import duty or laws requiring local content.

Canada has a very large trade surplus with the US relative to it's population size.
What do you mean you can't buy domestic? Chrysler, Honda, GM all have assembly plants in Canada, probably due to import duty. All of these plants went in before NAFTA. If you think about it, why bother building a plant in Canada if you could have just ship cars right over the border to the smaller market. I can't believe socialized medicine saves that much for the company.

I'm sure CAMI had a special deal with the CAW to allow a higher import content to get the jobs. GM/Toyota probably did the same deal on NUMI out in Calif.

Bottom line: outsourcing will help short term profits, but when the local market has no jobs left, how are they gonna buy your product?

The world defines free trade as the US running a trillion dollar trade defficit while they all have surpluses and jobs.

 

[joey]

Yea, and the 3.4L comes from the same lineage. Well they make the I-5 in Tonawanda, and that's a nice engine. Canyon/Colorado's been out a few months right? No recalls yet! A Canyon Crew Cab with a Cap would make a nice Truck-SUV, Beter then an Explorer Sport Trac.