Gas prices at $3.50 (per gallon) and the media is screaming that it will increase to $4.00. Has GM missed the boat? Yes, I know the older gear heads (my age) will buy them just as they buy vettes and mustangs but will the main stream public have their sights on high mileage (i mean mpg's in the 30's) instead of muscle. Yes, I know that it is meant ot be a product that draws the buyer into the showroom but a vehicle that answers the public's need does so too. Me? I like the Camaro but I wouldn't buy one. On another note, I wonder how much it costs to run one of those big Hummers?
Camaro's Ill-Timed Debut?
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It will be interesting to see ... but being old enough to have lived through the last period of expensive gas, I think it is possible this time will be different.
In the first fuel shock of the 1970s, it wasn't just that gas doubled in price. There was also a period (during the OPEC embargo) that availability was an issue. Having lived through gas lines and not being able to get gas ... many folks wanted a car that could go as far as possible on as little gas as possible ... in case it happened again.
The other component was what that mentality did to the resale of large, gas-guzzling cars. They got cheap really, really quick. That kind of depreciation hurts financially a lot more than an extra 10 or 20 bucks a week to fill up. Fact is that a lot of muscle cars that command six and seven figures today could be bought for next to nothing 30 years ago as they were just used (and sometimes abused), gas guzzling tanks.
But, even in that environment, some of the best years for F-body sales were in the late 1970s ... and Trans Ams sold really well (particularly after Smokey and the Bandit came out). T/As with the 6.6 were still 10 - 12 mpg cars then, but sold because people wanted them and by 1977 the availability of fuel had stabalized.
Right now, the cost of fuel is rising, but availability hasn't been an issue. And, it seems that the current price of oil is more speculative than anything else ... there is as much a chance that oil prices will drop well below $100 per barrel as they will continue to rise.
The Camaro isn't basic trasportation -- its a treat people give themselves. I think that will insulate it somewhat from rising gas prices, though CAFE may force GM to play with pricing/model mix to emphasize the V6 (or get V8 buyers to pay the penalty).
That said, the toughest thing (particularly given the fickle nature of that market) will be keeping the Camaro fresh and interesting so it's worth paying a bit extra to keep one fuelled up!
In the first fuel shock of the 1970s, it wasn't just that gas doubled in price. There was also a period (during the OPEC embargo) that availability was an issue. Having lived through gas lines and not being able to get gas ... many folks wanted a car that could go as far as possible on as little gas as possible ... in case it happened again.
The other component was what that mentality did to the resale of large, gas-guzzling cars. They got cheap really, really quick. That kind of depreciation hurts financially a lot more than an extra 10 or 20 bucks a week to fill up. Fact is that a lot of muscle cars that command six and seven figures today could be bought for next to nothing 30 years ago as they were just used (and sometimes abused), gas guzzling tanks.
But, even in that environment, some of the best years for F-body sales were in the late 1970s ... and Trans Ams sold really well (particularly after Smokey and the Bandit came out). T/As with the 6.6 were still 10 - 12 mpg cars then, but sold because people wanted them and by 1977 the availability of fuel had stabalized.
Right now, the cost of fuel is rising, but availability hasn't been an issue. And, it seems that the current price of oil is more speculative than anything else ... there is as much a chance that oil prices will drop well below $100 per barrel as they will continue to rise.
The Camaro isn't basic trasportation -- its a treat people give themselves. I think that will insulate it somewhat from rising gas prices, though CAFE may force GM to play with pricing/model mix to emphasize the V6 (or get V8 buyers to pay the penalty).
That said, the toughest thing (particularly given the fickle nature of that market) will be keeping the Camaro fresh and interesting so it's worth paying a bit extra to keep one fuelled up!
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The days of hauli'n @$$ and sucking gas, are coming to an abrupt end 
It all I've dreamed of as a child! I don't want it to be taken away.
You gotta fight.....for your right.... to drive something that has a V8!
It all I've dreamed of as a child! I don't want it to be taken away.
You gotta fight.....for your right.... to drive something that has a V8!
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6,830 Posts
that and Mustang will be redesigned within one year of Camaro launch, Challenger released one year ahead of Camaro. Dealer markups up the ying yang to the point where you could probably purchase a Vette than a very loaded Camaro could spell problems.
Who knows though, GM buyers haven't had a rwd v8 car *With* a manual and 2 doors since the 06 GTO so maybe buyers will flock to this for a year or two?
It'll be interesting to see sales for years 3-5 and if GM refreshes/updates the vehicle beyond different fog lamps and a steering wheel change-up.
CobaltSS
Who knows though, GM buyers haven't had a rwd v8 car *With* a manual and 2 doors since the 06 GTO so maybe buyers will flock to this for a year or two?
It'll be interesting to see sales for years 3-5 and if GM refreshes/updates the vehicle beyond different fog lamps and a steering wheel change-up.
CobaltSS
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5,424 Posts
If Chevy is that worried about the Camaro popping out at the wrong time, they should just slap a TT V6 or the 3.6DI from the CTS in a midrange 'RS' or 'Z-28' model......Ford will be doing it with the 'Stang.
As far as the Challenger's concerned......Dodge can do the same thing.....they used to fit Stage III Turbos in their top rung Daytonas back in the day.....(then again, the Challenger is a ****** pig....so I dunno)
As far as the Challenger's concerned......Dodge can do the same thing.....they used to fit Stage III Turbos in their top rung Daytonas back in the day.....(then again, the Challenger is a ****** pig....so I dunno)
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11,071 Posts
My guess is the Camaro will go like gangbusters.... for a year or two. Once everybody who wants one has bought one, sales will fall like a boulder off a cliff. Even if gas prices stabilize, or by some freak of chance actually drop, it'll still likely be just a niche-y product destined to a somewhat short shelf life. It'll be around a few years after its introduction, but I suspect it'll be a low-volume specialty product after the initial sales rush.
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9,159 Posts
Or how about a Camaro Duramax 4.5L V8 against a Mustang GTD Twin-turbo diesel, the folks of Diesel Power Magazine imagined even more from what I spotted at http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0803dp_diesel_transformation/page_2.html
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Damn....those guys have too much time on their hands.....
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I still plan on buying one regardless of gas prices, but like it's been said, those that really want one will get one no matter what gas costs. I think they should offer a higher economy version also, it would be a wise business decision in my mind, whether it be only a few mpg or high mpg.
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6,105 Posts
who says you cant haul @$$ without sucking gas?The days of hauli'n @$$ and sucking gas, are coming to an abrupt end
It all I've dreamed of as a child! I don't want it to be taken away.
You gotta fight.....for your right.... to drive something that has a V8!
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6,105 Posts
and theres nothing wrong with that as long as its planned that way. turn a profit. thats all. theres no reason why they cant keep the camaro in show rooms for years to come. i hope gm has learned by now that volume doesnt always mean money.
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5,934 Posts
Wow, first time using Multi-Quote, nice feature.
I'm old enough to remember what GM did to the Nova name in the early 80's. (Do a Google search). And Ford almost released the last Mercury Cougar as the "next Mustang" in the late 90's. That was a close call, and clearer heads prevailed at Ford. The last Cougar was a nice car for what it was, but it was no Mustang.
The opportunity could be for current owners of Infiniti G's, Nissan Z's, "riced out" Civic's, BMW 3-Series', and RX-8's who want more hp to seriously look at the Challenger, G8 and Camaro. I took this one kid for a spin in my C5 Z06 shortly after I got it, and he was screaming about the "touque from an American V-8"!
The G8 and Camaro will also offer the consumer mpg numbers that will pleasantly surprise them at the pump.
The Camaro I think will be a first car for younger folks, but a second/third car for those older and married. They may have a Corolla for everyday driving, then a Camaro for "having fun".
The biggest boost GM will get from the Camaro is the perception boost as people see it in traffic.
Hell, no. I mean HELL, NO!!! If people want a fuel efficient car, they buy a fuel efficient car. Don't, for God's Sake, don't water down the Camaro. It's a performance car. People know what they are getting. I can see offering a Turbo 6 for it as the "chick" model. But there is no good reason to offer a hybrid version of the Camaro. C'mon dude, think about what you are saying. I understand your augument, but there are other stylish options if folks want a fuel efficient car.
I'm old enough to remember what GM did to the Nova name in the early 80's. (Do a Google search). And Ford almost released the last Mercury Cougar as the "next Mustang" in the late 90's. That was a close call, and clearer heads prevailed at Ford. The last Cougar was a nice car for what it was, but it was no Mustang.
Yes, sadly, I agree. I think there will be an initial sales bump by people my age (42) and a few years younger. But the big question is how Gen X, Gen Y and Gen Z will respond. I've spoken with many younger guys about the Camaro. They say they like it, but it "dosen't speak to them". It speaks to my generation, but I'm not sure about the younger guys.
The opportunity could be for current owners of Infiniti G's, Nissan Z's, "riced out" Civic's, BMW 3-Series', and RX-8's who want more hp to seriously look at the Challenger, G8 and Camaro. I took this one kid for a spin in my C5 Z06 shortly after I got it, and he was screaming about the "touque from an American V-8"!
The G8 and Camaro will also offer the consumer mpg numbers that will pleasantly surprise them at the pump.
The Camaro I think will be a first car for younger folks, but a second/third car for those older and married. They may have a Corolla for everyday driving, then a Camaro for "having fun".
The biggest boost GM will get from the Camaro is the perception boost as people see it in traffic.
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9,159 Posts
I guess I have too much time as well :lmao: all it miss is a Cummins Challenger to go head-to-head against a Duramax Camaro and a Mustang Lion. Sure a turbo-diesel under these engines is a heresy currently but that could be a way to have a good mileage with lots of power and torque, a way of having our cake and eating it tooDamn....those guys have too much time on their hands.....
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5,569 Posts
If high gas prices hurt the Camaro, all performance cars will be hurting.
EVO, STI, S2000, 350z, Mustang, G8, G35, etc - they all get "bad" gas mileage.
EVO, STI, S2000, 350z, Mustang, G8, G35, etc - they all get "bad" gas mileage.
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14,963 Posts
I dont see why Camaro cant have a 2.9 diesel option. Especially if they are going to sell it over seas.
Make it an option, watch how many people buy it in Europe, dont forget to leave some space for America.
Make it an option, watch how many people buy it in Europe, dont forget to leave some space for America.
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8,004 Posts
It will 'depend' I suppose.
I can see people buying a car like this as a 'Fun Car' and not a daily driver.
As a second car or a third car for use when having a little fun is warranted.
No different then owning snowmobiles for 'fun'.
Will younger families buy this as their main car? Only stupid ones will.
For one it is a coupe and not family friendly in anyway with children.
It will depend. I think $4.00/gallon will be the high water mark.
Anything higher then that then we will see drastic change in people's driving habits and vehicle purchases.
I know I have really dropped off on my speed on the highway with the latest spike in fuel.
I have noticed a lot of people have 'slowed down' on the freeway lately.
I just might drop back to 55mph on my commute to work now to maximize my fuel economy.
It will suck big time but it is do-able. I have been driving 65mph for the last year as it is.
It only adds another 10 minutes to my 70 mile one way trip to work.
I can see people buying a car like this as a 'Fun Car' and not a daily driver.
As a second car or a third car for use when having a little fun is warranted.
No different then owning snowmobiles for 'fun'.
Will younger families buy this as their main car? Only stupid ones will.
For one it is a coupe and not family friendly in anyway with children.
It will depend. I think $4.00/gallon will be the high water mark.
Anything higher then that then we will see drastic change in people's driving habits and vehicle purchases.
I know I have really dropped off on my speed on the highway with the latest spike in fuel.
I have noticed a lot of people have 'slowed down' on the freeway lately.
I just might drop back to 55mph on my commute to work now to maximize my fuel economy.
It will suck big time but it is do-able. I have been driving 65mph for the last year as it is.
It only adds another 10 minutes to my 70 mile one way trip to work.
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*nods*
I remember that, too.....
Oh my, the Cougar, was also considered as the "next Mustang"? I knew about the Ford Probe being almost the "next Mustang", but not about the Cougar (which, iirc, ended up being the replacement more or less for the Probe...?)
As for the Camaro ... at least GM hasn't said much about CAFE in regards to it.....
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