Would've made a nice Buick. Oh, wait...

 

They have it all dressed up like a flagship sedan even if it is based on the same platform as the Malibu. It might work but something I read in a response on the Tell Fritz/Tell Us website suggests otherwise. I don't recall what the question was but I do recall them state that the XTS is NOT going to the the Cadillac flagship vehicle, that honor is held by and will be held by the Platinum Escalade, whatever.

Edit:

Found it, here it is.

The XTS beter change to rwd or it will not go will as a flagship car. You guys need to think about what the cts has set ground for stop going backwards. Its not 1980 No one whats a FWD performance caddy to much over steer DTS was the worst. STS Beter idea

View Response

Dear Craig - thanks for your note. Actually, the XTS Concept is not the flagship, but rather it is the Escalade Platinum Hybrid. The XTS Concept is an articulation of actual luxury customer feedback of desired preferences. Please keep an open mind until we deliver a product and the automotive media and others have a chance to review it. I think you will be surprised with what we develop. It will not let anybody down.-Bryan Nesbitt, General Manager of Cadillac

 

He said it is not a flagship, meaning it is not the current flagship, but rather may become one. Of course if a product has not come to fruition, it cannot technically "be", now can it? And BTW you have to be careful with GM marketing spin, as they play very skillfully with their words.

 

Personally, I see where people have problems with this car - it does have a little too much of the LaCrosse in some of its lines. However, if we are to do anything with CAFE and meeting the requirements set down by the current administration, this car may be the bridge to many new and more appealing (for those who don't like it) products down the road.

 

The standards were adopted before Obama came in. Congress had to vote to change that, and it happened under Bush.

 

If the X stands for All Wheel Drive, than that throws the entire naming scheme off. As current cars with All Wheel Drive have the 4 attached to their name. CTS4 or SRX4.

I call bull**** on the X having any meaning at all. Does it share anything with the XLR? No, then it shouldn't start with an X.

I hope this thing fails just so GM will wake up and produce a real flagship. Not a big Buick.

 

along with that new flagship, i hope they go back to REAL names and drop this mean nothing, alpha numeric crap.

 

I'm not sure yet.

Maybe they will surprise us....

 

I doubt GM is that forwarding thinking in making this new platform have the ability for a convertible. By not giving a convertible for the CTS, GM is proving they really don't care about that kind of customer.

 

It is neither brilliance or failure.

First. It is a concept car. Therefore, hard to judge the final product one way or the other.

Brilliance - it could be profitable. That's good. If its AWD and anywhere near Audi like handling its brilliant. If its like an all wheel drive DTS its not brilliant. Profitable not brilliant.

Failure-Impossible to say. I'm curious with what our resident naysayer has to say. Cue: mgescuro. If I rember correctly he liked the interior and dissed the rest.

 

I'm not sure why people keep trying to look at this vehicle as a flagship product. There is unlimited space for higher end products in the lineup. If they can get this vehicle to market with limited investment and it is even a moderate success, then there's even more positive cash flow to fund the top end. And if it helps in the CAFE calc, then all the better...

 

People call it a flagship because, well, there is nothing in the pipeline to slot above it. Just because the possibility is there does not mean anything without some substance.

 

"Dear Craig - thanks for your note. Actually, the XTS Concept is not the Cadillac flagship... a tarted-up Chevy truck is." - Brainless Nesbutt, General Shmeggege of Chevrolac.

 

Hahahahahaa

My thoughts exactly.:lmao:

 

It's a brilliant Buick flagship.

It's a failure of a Cadillac.

Brand differentiation is important. Brand consistency is important. This is Cadillac's flagship passenger car, and it doesn't even measure up to Hyundai's while sharing a platform with a Chevy. That makes it a Toyota fail.

 

It's a brilliant Buick flagship.

It's a failure of a Cadillac.

Brand differentiation is important.

Sadly, it sounds like Buick will get a better flagship than Cadillac...on Zeta.

 

As a Caddy, Epic Fail!

As a Buick Park Avenue, It may have worked.


!!!!

 

This XTS deal sounds like old GM coming up with reasons for the ON HAND platform and technology being the true future of one of their makes.... Buick went from selling nearly a million cars a year to a fraction of that by thinking like this. Cadillac itself nearly committed suicide by thinking and doing this by chasing their old traditional customers to the grave and leaving nothing for those leaving for the imports by droves.

This is cost cutting pure and simple!!!! Why try the public relations con job to try to convise us it is not????

This car would be a killer Buick but it is not a Cadillac!!!!!!

 

Having seen this car in person at the autoshow to me it was a step up from the DTS (which isn't saying much) and on par with the Lincoln MKS. I think the interior was nice but the exterior was rather...meh. I still think the Sigma or Zeta platform should have been expanded to the XTS rather than pimping out the Epsilon platform to nearly every GM brand. I still think there is still a market for a full sized rear wheel drive luxury car just like there's a market for the GMT900s despite the out of control gas prices.

 

As everyone knows by now, the XTS is the response to GM’s financial crisis, the government’s new CAFE legislation and an their alleged shift in the luxury market.

It has/had everything to do with finances. CAFE and alleged shifts in the market are weak attempts at justifying the unjustifiable. The XTS, as currently envisioned, will not get the same MPG as the current full size RWD – the rest Hubris/marketing speak for they don't have a competitive product.

The product is similar to the Lincoln MKS in scope and reality - fail. This topic has been done to death!

 

I think this is the real issue also. This and fear of failure if the risk of a real top tier car were to fail bad or not make money. Really I think you need to be ready to lose LOTS money to do a car like what they need and establish it. My issue is that I think Cadillac still has the name in the USA to make a pretty quick rise again if they did it right so they shouldn't be quite so FEARFUL. If they are funded by my tax dollars though I am OK with this fear I guess.

Really though they will need to start such a brand from scratch kinda like Hyundai is doing in another 10-20 years as Baby Boomers reach an age they aren't really a useful market anymore. But if they could get a car like this out in 10 or less years I figure it might be early enough to still leverage the Cadillac brand. My generation has some knowledge and connection to the REAL Cadillac, but I think for them to utilize that REAL Cadillac idea with a car like what is being discussed here there has to be some Baby boomer and some of my generation still at a somewhat useful age to market too. As the baby boomer run past 60 and 70 and I start to pass my prime I think Cadillac becomes a brand that can no longer leverage it's wonderful past well in heading back up market.

Not sure I consider the XTS idea to retain current DTS and some STS buyers as a good idea though?? Really I think they should just be directing them to Buick and working on a way to do a REAL flagship sedan. Just avoid this thing all together and direct people to the LaCrosse and possible Park Avenue somehow. This would effectively be using Infiniti's current stategy, but having a real prestige brand just missing a modern flagship rather than Infiniti's more premium sports sedan image.

This approach could get people from my generation and my kids to recognize Cadillac and once I am more toward the past my prime age and the kids are more out on their own freeing up some of my income, maybe they would have a flagship for me. You could even show cars like the Sixteen on occasion and promise them as things to aspire too for your existing customers. Basically tell them, when you have the money, we will have this. We might hit the right level of success early and move to a German brand, but if done right we will move STRAIGHT back to Cadillac once they have the right car. I think it could be done something like the Volt or LFA, but in a more teasing fashion, to pretty good success. Basically make the RIGHT Cadillac flagship exist in our hearts and minds while you make the REAL thing happen at whatever pace you want.

 

I don't get the criticism of this car, Mr. Ed at GM has given this car some of the most beautiful lines out there.

 

As a GM fan this isn't the we want to see but we are in the severe minority when it comes to the buying public. If marketed right this can and probably will be a hit with the general public. Yes we want caddy to be straight rwd platforms but thats not the reality right now for GM just comming out of bankrupcy.

 

I think if GM can make a rear biased AWD system with a much better power plant than the 3.6DI (at least needs turbos and a V8 option) then this car has a chance. If they are thinking they can charge $50K+ for an up-fitted Buick Lacrosse then they are fooling themselves. The biggest thing that may be the most difficult to change is the Dash to Axle ratio. Somehow they need to find a way to stretch the front end to give it more of a luxury presence. EVERY other seriously considered luxury car is RWD there is a reason for this. GM you have great engineers, see if you can figure that one out.

 

I was thinking the same thing, and since it'll be AWD only, why not turn the engine 90 degrees to make the front end longer.

 

I dunno. I joke, but my Dad really liked the XTS Concept, and he's pretty much ground-zero of one of Cadillac's demographic targets: well-heeled, first-wave baby-boomer just entering retirement.

After experiencing the power of Mom's Flex Ecoboost, and driving a blown-six Volvo for years, he's even less interested in V8 power than before, knowing full well that a powerful six can do a V8s job just as well.

Though he was puzzled why Cadillac wasn't building the XTS on the same platform as his other dream GM car... the Chinese Park Avenue.

Dad's overall response to the XTS was... "nice DeVille. Now where's the Fleetwood?"

 

I dunno. I joke, but my Dad really liked the XTS Concept, and he's pretty much ground-zero of one of Cadillac's demographic targets: well-heeled, first-wave baby-boomer just entering retirement.

After experiencing the power of Mom's Flex Ecoboost, and driving a blown-six Volvo for years, he's even less interested in V8 power than before, knowing full well that a powerful six can do a V8s job just as well.

Though he was puzzled why Cadillac wasn't building the XTS on the same platform as his other dream GM car... the Chinese Park Avenue.

Well don't worry. He can just buy the Buick Park Avenue as nsap says its potentially coming.

 

It will be purchased by the same people who buy current DTSs. It in no way will pose a threat to the German Big 3 or Lexus. GM management must get serious about a world class flagship, the XTS certainly is a half-hearted attempt at doing so.

 

I see it as an adequate replacement for the DTS with less-than-stellar styling.

 

He's late to the party, so how about I stand in for a minute:
"Cadillac's total crap, they've lost their way, they are a bunch of idiots who couldn't produce a true luxury car if their lives depended upon it and it does, they'll never be God's chosen ones, since the Germans already have that locked up. And mindshare! Don't get me started! They're idiots. They don't produce any car worth having, but if they had used a better grade of luxury on the STS back in 2006, I would have seriously looked at them but not buy cause they're still crap. They don't put all the necessary luxury amenities in that a luxury car must have. I proved my understanding of luxury by buying a Saturn, and G6 and a Malibu-sized midline E Class that doesn't have the luxury amenities that I previously said all luxury cars MUST HAVE.
And because I have an overpriced expensive house near Frisco and take public transit to work, I am the arbiteur of all things "luxury." Repeated 29,000 times.

 

Don't forget "you posters don't understand the difference beween a Prada bag and a Coach bag". "I'm a luxury buyer and I would never go to a party here in San francisco without my Prada purse".

Geez.....

 

I think the XTS will be a success in sales but the people who want them to take on the flagships of MB, BMW, Audi and Jaguar will be disappointed, vocally. The XTS is a very good replacement of the DTS, and if marketed correctly will sell in large profitable numbers.
I think Cadillac's longer-range plans are for a range-topper based on the successor to zeta and/or alpha, a platform that is still a couple years out.

 

If it's AWD only, has the rumored 400+ horsepower twin turbo AND a two mode hybrid powertrain......

I'd pay attention then. It's a great looking car.

As long as it's more Audi A8 than Lincoln MKS.

 

I am so confused with how some of you can bash something before you experience it. Further more it is not 1980 FWD has come a long way and this car will be AWD so what is the big issue? The new SRX is selling many times better than the last model and hasn't lost any performance in the process. Some of you pulled your hair out and said it would fail also because of the FWD layout. Guess what the opposite happen so lets just give this car a chance before bashing.

 

Thank you.

I understand NSAP's point of view and I respect his judgement. He puts forth some genuine concerns and ideas. I just wish he and everyone else would quit assuming the "F" word. Like it or not, Cadillac does not put the XTS forth as a flagship. It's intended as a volume car like the ES is for Lexus.

And I too would love nothing better than to see a large RWD sedan for Cadillac. But isn't it coming? I think it's called the 2013 Cadillac CTS. Everything I've read says that the next generation CTS is going up in size to about where the current STS is, to make room for the ATS line. I drive a 2005 STS and I can tell you that is plenty big.

And for all those that whinge-on about the 7 and S, forget it. The XTS will, like it or not, well out sell these German anachronisms by a mile for the simple fact that the XTS is not meant to compete with them. The XTS will be far less expensive. It's been stated that the XTS price range will fall in the $50-60K range.

.

 

:hyper: RAH, RAH, RAH........Is the Cadillac bash pep rally over yet?

 

I think the car will be fine. I see no problem with it. It's a great replacement for the DTS if produced. IMO.