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Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

5.8K views 45 replies 20 participants last post by  mgescuro  
#1 ·
Cadillac chief Johnan is planning on a CLA rival, but on ALPHA with RWD. The idea is to still be luxury, with enthusiastic performance, and a cheaper price to compete with the Germans entry sedans that have chosen to use economy set-ups. One ride or drive in a Mercedes CLA and GLA and one should, with non-rose colored glasses come to the conclusion that the cars may be on Chevy levels when U get down to it. A Cruze LTZ comes across as a better luxury car than the CLA.. A Verano certainly. That's fact.

My view is that Cadillac needs time, without all the constant focus on their sales numbers to pull itself back to where it needs to be. GM has the sales numbers when looking at its premium operations. Between Cadillac and Buick, not even including GMC.. they sold 1.4 Million last year, Buick bringing in 1.1 million+. Cadillac should focus on its CT2 (ATS) CT4 (CTS) CT6, and CT8 and XT3(Alpha based 5door) XT4 (Alpha based 3door), XT5(SRX), XT7(Omega or Lambda based 5door) along with the Escalade and a Super car. 10 cars max.

Johnan is succumbing to idiotic public media pressure concerning last years measly 6% drop in sales, after a 22% increase the year before. Lack of PRODUCT PRODUCT PRODUCT is the culprit, and it seems as if no one, in the media is seeing it.

That being said.. if GM pursued a dual-channel strategy, utilizing Buick as the go-to, would people give Cadillac a pass when it comes to their sales not being as high as a Mercedes Benz which is fluffing sales using cars that are on Buick levels???

So we get from observers who kno.. but choose to ignore:

"Cadillac sales are in the dumps. They are selling some of the best cars in the segment, but their sales are down.. Must mean they aren't prestigious enough. Of course let's gloss over and FORGET that they are only selling 6 cars versus Benz who is selling 16. Let's also forget that Benz has a whole new host of entry level luxury vehicles, FWD based, that would otherwise be Buick competitors at best. "

So again. Will Cadillac get the pass??? Or if GM combined sales of the Cadillac and Buick brands.. with Buick essentially becoming the "Lasalle" of the day.. would people who care about sales let it slide that they are selling in two different slots like Mercedes is doing, under one name, to garner more sales? I say NO. I say every chance most haters get they will mention the strategy. I say that those very same people will constantly ignore the fact that Benz is selling low end cars that have very little to do with luxury, to shore up their CAFE requirements and aspirations of luxury segment sales supremacy.

It calls up the questions: Are sales important in the luxury segment? Are sales the gauge by which success is measured in this segment?

GM could take on Benz straight up with this line-up and would pull in as many sales with Cadillac selling a version of the Cruze, a Sonic, a Equinox, etc. Or are we saying that Cadillac must make as many sales with an exclusive, RWD based line-up of over the top performance cars while Benz gets to essentially cheat, and give us warmed over economy cars?

I believe that Cadillac should have CT2 CT4 CT6 CT8 and XT equivalents along with an Escalade and a Super car. 10 vehicles, but none of them have to be compromised in such a way as Benz has unleashed with the CLA.

I say that GM has an advantage with Buick. They could, for the sake of negative, almost exclusive to them, press releases about sales utilize Buick as their entry level brand. Between the two last year, GM garnered 400,000 sales in the U.S. That would have, under Benz rules (of putting mainstream level cars in the luxo line-up) that would have easily made them the best selling group of the year.


I agree that Cadillac still has to prove itself. The biggest problem I have with them having to prove themselves is that they seem to have to jump thru 30 hoops for those 30 years of troubles.. while brands like Audi.. which continues to have quality issues, get a pass. Ironically, in terms of sales, Audi really had a BAD year versus Caddy considering the amount of vehicles it sells. No one mentions it tho.. in fact just the opposite.
I will say that a back to back drive with "brand blinders" on would make most come away with a review that the top of the line Chevy, Ford, Honda, or Mazda as being on par or better than the $30K+ CLA.

The game has been rigged in such a way that Mercedes is essentially pulling the wool over sheepy eyes and selling them a vehicle, under the guise of luxury, that otherwise would be considered no better than a Chevy.The CLA has no place in a luxury car line-up. It is a sales and compliance vehicle that fluffed up Benzes sales. The GLA is another one. They are getting a pass simply because they are Mercedes.

Making a smaller ATS, a world class sport lux, is no different than BMW making a smaller 3series with the 2. I can get behind that, if sales supremacy is a non-issue. In order to compete with Benz tho.. Cadillac will need to do this.
Benz took an A-Class, essentially a Sonic competitor, not even a Cruze, and told U it was something else.
 
Discussion starter · #37 · (Edited)
Re: Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

I personally think the new CTS is a great looking car and the V-Series is obviously phenomenal! Even so watching that commercial, as awesome as it is, there is, at least in my mind a disconnect between what I'm seeing and what I perceive when I think of Cadillac. Cadillac is pulling double duty in that they're not simply trying to rebuild their damaged brand, they're at the same time trying to completely change it. Neither on its own is easy, together, good luck with that.
Cadillac has an extremely arduous journey ahead, and it's starting this journey with the additional burdens of past mistakes made over the last decade and even just in the last few years.

It's a guaranteed struggle for Cadillac, but one that CAN pay off handsomely in the future.
I agree with what both are U are saying partially on this matter.

SP.. the disconnect is real. Cadillac is attempting a complete overhaul of their brand while still adhering to the heritage and greatness that they created

It is not the critic who counts

Not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles

Or where the doer of deeds could have done them better

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena

Whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood

Who strives valiantly

Who errs

Who comes short again and again

Because there is no effort without error and shortcoming

But who does actually strive to do the deeds

Who knows great enthusiasms

The great devotions

Who spends himself in a worthy cause

Who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement

And at the worst, if he fails, at least fails… while daring greatly
TR


THAT'S STRONG!!! And if some fail to see the relevancy then they are literally the first few lines of the speech

It does remind me of the Penalty of Leadership Ad.. It is standard reading when any future employee accepts a position in my organization. Theodore F. MacManus's

Image



One must remember one key factor in it's writing context as well. It was written in 1915, only a few short years after Cadillac had even been created it's reputation for quality and leadership was accentuated by truth. That being said, after 100+ years in the market an established, though tarnished reputation, Cadillac still has a strong foundation to continue the push forward to living up to the "Standard of the World" moniker.

That does not mean that change cannot occur, and that they idea of luxury that WAS can not be altered to accommodate the tastes if the population. That is obvious as in 1970.. no one would have thought that the BMW experience was luxurious.
 
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Discussion starter · #43 · (Edited)
Re: Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

So, would you argue that the Mercedes-Benz S Class isn't as aspirational as its rivals because it outsells them all combined?
The 3 series is several rungs down the ladder from the Sclass . Its price point is in line with a certain trims of Camry. Its not aspirational outside of high end M .
 
Discussion starter · #41 ·
Re: Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

Cadillac really only has one aspirational vehicle the Escalade.....the BMW 3 series is aspirational....ATS not.....it will take time for other Cadillac models to get to Escalade status.....if ever.....
To WHO??? I see ZERO about the dime a dozen 3Series in terms of aspiration. I mean this in a not confrontational way. To me, one of the attractive attributes of the ATS is the fact that it isn't as "common" as a 3series, which I consider the Camry of Luxury compacts. Where is the "dream" of owning a car that is seen more times daily than a freaking Camry?
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Re: Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

The first part yes, although the last part I'm not entirely sure about. Personally I find the CTS' interior to be nearly tied with the Audi for tops in the segment, although most reviews indicate it's one of the best though not THE best. But that's semantics and we have a broader thread discussion than that, so I'll say nothing more about that specifically.

More importantly, I mentioned those other aspects that the CTS can improve on, which includes additional features and technology. The leaders in the segment offer them and in most examples have offered them for years prior to the CTS' debut in 2013. Cadillac has most of it nearly perfected. It's just those last couple of aspects on which they can improve.
2017. CTS is seemingly waiting to take it next level possibly to see what the new 5 and E have coming. Look or find the schematic I post in the sales thread showing future product. Look for changes to 2017 CTS in prep for the name change over



Which is fine. I've mentioned before that IMO the CTS offers the best combination of product at most points and it'd be the one I chose. The one corner of the segment where I'd pause would be with the 3.6, which pales in comparison to the BMW and Audi competition's FI 3.0Ls. Now if they dropped in the CT6's 3.0TT.....:D

I have to reiterate the concern I have of people praising the CT6's 3.0 or condemning the CTS's new for 2016 LGX... Without driving either.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
Re: Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

I think a smaller than ATS RWD sedan will be hard unless they have some packaging magic. Interior space will be a compromise. What's the point, especially when the market is trending away from sedans? A compact, luxurious performance oriented CUV on the other hand would be more practical (a tall, compact hatch with AWD) and would align to a hotspot in the market.

They need a full line of competitive CUVs and a targeted line up of sedans, coupes and other types.
Well they could simply restyle and repackage the current ATS, which will be getting larger asking the lines of the ATS- L on sale in China
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Re: Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

The CTS is one of my favorites in the segment, but its chief "complaint" that I have is that it doesn't offer what you mentioned as being that last "20%"; that extra great audio system, those extra technologies, that 3.0TT when they figured the 3.6L would do, etc.


One I kind of sheepishly love is this one. There's an element of the classic to the music, but more importnatly the visuals are very striking, theatrical, and actually if we're honest slightly gauche. But that's good for Cadillac.
CTS is currently considered the market leader in terms of handling and interior quality. Not the A6, not the GS, not the 5Series and not the E-Class. The latter two simply hold a few more years of recognition that makes people reluctant to concede the CTS' win. NONE of that.. will keep me from buying this:

Image



 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Re: Cadillac Sales Conundrum. How Can It Compete w/ a mainstreamed "German 3"?

Buick for the most part duplicates Chevrolet and Opel LTZ vehicles.

Like Acura duplicates Expensive Honda's. Poor Buick does not even get Voltec.
Yes. It makes one wonder if it is even possible for Cadillac to ever sell in BMW/Mercedes numbers, basically, for one big reason that is not their fault, and has zero to do with how great their cars are; They have Chevy and Buick/Opel under the same corporate umbrella;

1) That is precisely what I was saying essentially with the thread. If sales are the gauge by which brand greatness is measured then Cadillac will be at a disadvantage simply because it doesn't need to go down market to pay the bills or meet regulatory obligations.

Problem is that if U look at every singe Cadillac thread on GMI.. and there are plenty... it will be mentioned by a CADILLAC HATER that their current sales are directly affiliated with their desirability at a price point, which is false to a large degree.


Again.. a hypothetical Buick/Cadillac sales channel, even if only viewed internally, yielded 1.4 Million sales in 2014. Add in GMC and that comes to almost 2 Million premium vehicles from GM in 2014... all yielding higher overall transaction prices than most of the industry. GM's "PAG" is actually producing.

2) U can get 85% of luxury features in a Tahoe or Yukon that U can get in an Escalade.. but I have to say that U can also get that in almost any brand vs brand comparison. GM or otherwise. Part of the idea of luxury is paying more for.. essentially not much more.

3) Cadillac needs some improvement.. I just very often do not agree as to where those improvements need to be made. Powertrains??? I fail to see where they are lacking outside of the use of the 2.5L. Then again one drive in a 320i and I can see why they felt as tho it were OK to do it. The 3.6L NA V6 is definitely getting up there, but there were plenty of improvements made when the LFX was introduced including NVH and power delivery, and now we have LGX, which is from my reading a more refined engine.

I stand by my belief that the engine line-up at CAdillac should abandon NA altogther and simply use 2.0L, 3.0L, 3.6L (for now), 4.0L.. and 5.0L. My belief is that they did not let the ULTRA V8s just melt on the shelf, and they were advanced enough that they will be the basis for what is coming