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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

How long did it take you to write this colossal failure of a thought? And all the parts you thought you were being witty with the Fleetwood thing....not..I got bored and stopped reading after the second paragraph, everything before that was all wrong, every bit of it.


EDIT: Ok, after 12 attempts, I finally got all the way through this rambling....talk about all sorts of crazy talk, I understand everyone has their opinion....but wow..this is a whole new kind of special..
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

It's been stated that CT6 is "8 inches longer than the CTS." That's 203.5 inches. That's also longer than the SWB S, A8, XJ, and 7. It's also on par with the LWB LS.
So, I'm not sure why everyone is having a conniption fit. 203.5" is in the ballpark. Furthermore, they haven't announced if this is the SWB or LWB version, assuming there are different lengths to begin with.


Cadillac's inconsistent "face" is merely design in transition, just like that stupid cat-faced logo, that doesn't appear on every car yet. And we all know the ATS design dates back to pre-bankruptcy, so the design itself was dated at launch.

I'm not too concerned at this stage of the game.
I think people here on GMI are just incredibly nervous about the changes that Cadillac is implementing. It's literally EVERYTHING I've been harping about for 7 years. Frankly, I'm happy Cadillac is getting itself on the proper luxury track.
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

Dark Angel - I think what's actually happening here is Cadillac's CT6 is a vehicle positioned in between the CTS and fullsize flagship. Perhaps it's something like a 6-Series or CLS class vehicle. I'm confident something called a CT7 and CT8 will exist closer to the top of the lineup...
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

It's been stated that CT6 is "8 inches longer than the CTS." That's 203.5 inches. That's also longer than the SWB S, A8, XJ, and 7. It's also on par with the LWB LS.
Yeah, that's really no problem. I had a long wheel base Lexus LS and everyone was extremely impressed with the amount of leg room there was in the back seat...
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

.

And this is what you think Cadillac should do:

(posted 9-18-14 here: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/...t-gmc-cadillac-179817/index2.html#post4262945)

Here is the type of design Language Cadillac needs, which I call "Liquid Fusion" Audi is coming out with a game changing design language in 2015, I pray Cadillac does too and knocks our socks off..


Pic: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/...ick-chevrolet-gmc-cadillac-ds-divine-22-1.jpg
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

How long did it take you to write this colossal failure of a thought? And all the parts you thought you were being witty with the Fleetwood thing....not..I got bored and stopped reading after the second paragraph, everything before that was all wrong, every bit of it.


EDIT: Ok, after 12 attempts, I finally got all the way through this rambling....talk about all sorts of crazy talk, I understand everyone has their opinion....but wow..this is a whole new kind of special..
If I'm not mistaken, this is the same guy who said two or so years ago that he and his company were coming out with some revolutionary new product that was going to change all of our lives. Just sayin'.
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

I have no idea why you even bothered posting this in "Suggest a news article."
I don't know about here at GMI, but some of the subforums at FordInsideNews are closed off for posting. That makes creating a post somewhat difficult.
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

No offence, but reading Cadillac related articles here on GMI in the last few days is like reading the soccer forum from my home team (7 points out of 21 in the first 7 league games). A lot of 'mimimimi' lately.
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

In a recent Motley Fool article its was stated that..... Cadillac may not position the CT6 as a direct rival to the S-Class and BMW's 7 Series. As reported by the Daily Kanban, new Cadillac president Johan de Nysschen recently said, "CT6 is not positioned against S-Class, 7 Series or [Audi] A8. It will have more advanced technology, better dynamics, similar refinement but it is smaller."


WHAAAAAAAAT!!! 'SMALLER' Stop the Train let us OFF.. SMALLER!! It's weird because everyone though the new Fleetwood.. OOPS, CT6 was going to be a direct RIVAL to the 7 Series BMW, the S-Class Mercedes, the Audi A8. It's weird GM is not taking the new Fleetwood, there I go again, the new CT6 and penning it directly against those top models. GM spent huge and I mean HUGE dollars to design and engineer this car, what happened -- did someone for get the measuring tape, did someone not bring a competitor car into the design room and see the sizes of the competitors.

What's going to happen now and remember my words. This new Fleetwood-- OH DAMMIT-- new CT6 is going to take and you will read huge comparisons the what the original CTS was, not exactly the same size as competitors. This could be a great thing or bad thing. Now the world will once again be left wondering, when and where will an OFFICIAL FULL SIZE CADILLAC COMPETITOR COME FOR THE full size luxury cars of its true competitors.

I am going to ask new Cadillac president Johan de Nysschen a direct question and I hope he reaches out to me. WHERE is Cadillac really headed, design wise, marketing wise, engineering wise. Once again we were made to believe a true full size luxury car was on its way and the CT6 was it, but is not it..

The title for my article leads to my point now. Has Cadillac lost it's true MOJO, it's FACE and REAR. This size Hiccup of the new CT6 makes my point even sharper. I look at and have be harsh on Cadillac's 'Art & Science' design language for a while now. I feel this language is not engaging consumers at all. Sure some buy into it, but the majority still flock to BMW, Mercedes, AUDI. I don't believe the recent comments I read, that the buyers of those brands don't see Cadillac's cars on their list yet, because they don't see Cadillac as a competitor to them. I think this is truly wrong, I do think Cadillac is a true competitor to those luxury brands, (Engineering wise, Technology wise) but the issue is 'Art & Science' itself. To me right now that design language is the true flaw that does not resonate with consumers.

I look at Cadillac cars and especially the new Escalade. Look at the front ends of these SUV's and Cars, look at the rears of these cars. Each ATS - CTS - XTS and the SRX and Escalade. Each of these vehicles in a brand have totally different grill designs that to me don't relay the 'FACE of the Brand Properly' and don't get me started on the rear ends of these vehicles. My point is Cadillac really needs to set a new 'Design Standard' a 'Design Language' that engages coffee time conversations, bar conversations, conversations in competitors design and board rooms. Where everyone says "HOLY S^&T" have you seen the new Cadillac Fleetwood, the new Cadillac Seville, the new Cadillac Deville, the new Cadillac Cimarron, ok not the last one LOL. I want Cadillac to come at us, say "YEAH RIGHT, AHA, YOU GOT IT -- This is the NEW FACE of Cadillac Luxury. Screw the new Naming language too.

I keep hearing and we all know this, they want Cadillac to be American. Johan de Nysschen and his team have stated that they will never be, nor should be though of as European Luxury, they should be American luxury. In order to do American luxury though, don't you think Cadillac Brass should not make the new naming moniker of its cars less European in nature. Pull it's punches from the past and use the old beautiful Cadillac names, names that have not gone away from generations of minds, names that have stood strong in the face of time. Cadillac needs to get it right and do it right. Make sure all Cars and SUV's and I still say they need a luxury Truck at Cadillac, make sure the new Cadillac has a 'FACE' a 'Rear' that is recognizable to every person out in public as Cadillac.

I want people to see themselves in these cars, drool over these cars, want to steal these cars right out of the showroom, I want mad panic rushes to Cadillac showrooms where the sales people there say, um sorry we are sold out. I want Cadillac to have a new design language that oozes luxury, that oozes sexy style 'NO' oh 'Yes Baby' I want the new face of Cadillac to be a new front end style where its truly the standard of the world and people recognise that face anywhere. I want the design team to design these cars from front to back where they look like one car, not two cars chopped together. The rears of Cadillacs need some serious help. Whoever is leading this design team needs to be pulled and let some fresh thinkers in. The problem that happens with designers is this. When they design something and its theirs, it too hard to get them to let go of that ownership over what they created. So they just get in that habit of trying to reformulate that design language, only each time it turns into a bigger disaster.

Look at Audi today, it has found it's way and its cars have that amazing AUDI grill and Face, when you see one, yep you know it's an Audi. The thing is AUDI is not scared to reinvent itself. Soon we will see an all new design language from Audi, that I know will exude awesomeness in every man and woman's heart, where they want to own this new AUDI. PERIOD!!

What shocked and dismayed me once again, is the size of the new CT6 and it got my blood boiling, all that money spent on the CT6 and they got the size wrong and now have to figure out where it fits in. Cadillac needs, focus here, stop saying two things, stop saying that Cadillac is not European, then go and pick a European naming system. Cadillac needs to say we are American, they need to not ever compete with the Europeans. Keep the Fleetwood, Seville, Deville, Eldorado names, they ooozzze Cadillac and OOOze American, names that like I said are still strong today. They need a new design language pronto, they need to make sure the front ends of their cars say Cadillac and make those grills cohesive from one car to another, they really need to spend time on the rears of their vehicle's, I feel that its time for some new rear lighting, the current one is bland and boring and oozes low end luxury. The sides of Cadillac cars need to speak like the design language of the Stingray Corvette, let it be loud, give is some cool side treatment.


Only then will people take Cadillac serious, that's when Cadillac figures itself out 1st. Who are they really. Who do they want to sell too. Trust me, the world is waiting, they know who Cadillac was and should be. Now GM bosses need to stand up and say, throw out the current playbook, we got it wrong, wrong, wrong. Yes our Engineering is spot on and says World leader, World Beater, but our vehicle naming is stupid, our cars have no identity, we cannot even get the size of our cars right. FIX this now, before it's too late again. Cadillac needs to do its own thing. Make cars that stand out, don't directly compete with the others, I think the CT6 is the right thing to do though, it does not compete with who it's supposed to size was. Make some cool SUV's like the Range Rover Sport, high luxury, high performance, make a sweet luxury full size crew cab high luxury- high performance truck, get a car the size of the Kappa Saturn Sky a nice sexy convertible, another convertible/coupe that targets a mid size performance car, another Full Size SUV based of the Escalade, but with even more awesome design language and make it a high performance Escalade line called "Escalade Series 1"

You can do it Cadillac, just throw out the current play book, yesterday!!
Before I start responding to your post, I just want to let you and everyone else know that I read your post coming out of a meeting and I have a boat load of work to do. However out of my busy Monday, I wanted to stop by here and reply to you.

1st Paragraph: Cadillac CT6 is larger than the SWB S-class, 7series, A8s.... So it does compete with them. It is 3inches shorter than the LWB S-Class which is in the ballpark.

2nd Paragraph: Two things, Cadillac has changed its name to CT6. Get over it! Secondly, as evidence by the new ATS and CTS... GM knows how to compete directly with their competitors.

3rd Paragraph: Nope. That magical wondering that you mentioned comes to fruition when the dimension change is significant. 5inches or more incase if your wondering.

4th Paragraph: Cadillac doesn't owe you an explanation. Like most of us here, we are emotionally attached to Cadillac and the people running Cadillac, don't owe us anything except making sure Cadillac becomes an exceptional luxury marque in the business. If anyone, I think they owe one to mgescuro (jk)

5th Paragraph: You're wrong again. Cadillac's global sales are up and their ATP (at $49k) is higher than the German three. Meaning people are paying high dollar for the cars they are buying from Cadillac.

6th Paragraph: BMW and Audi have similar fronts. Mercedes does not. Your' point? The Design theme is the same, Cadillac's are recognizable from a mile away... Front or Back and I think that says a lot.

7th Paragraph: Naming a car in a alphanumeric does not make it German. They started it, sure, but they're not the only luxury makers in the business using it. I'm not the biggest fan of it either, however I do believe that this will make cars introduced after CT6 stand out even more than their predecessors which is a good thing since Cadillac has/will take a huge step forward with this introduction.

8th Paragraph: That's your opinion and your entitled to it. No comment

9th Paragraph: Audi, if it was ever so desirable as you stated, managed to sell 1600 more vehicles than Cadillac (July 2014 industry reports). Bravo Audi!! Bravo 11 Audi vehicles than 7 Cadillac vehicles and they've sold 1600 more vehicles. GUYS that's AMAZING!!

10th Paragraph: Again with the names.... Get over it. Secondly, Art and Science has nothing wrong with them. Point in case, Elmiraj and Ciel. For your size comment, please refer to my response to your paragraph 1.

11th Paragraph: Your contradicting yourself, you want the CT6 to compete with the German 3 and then you want it to stand out. The Escalade do not have any direct competitors from the Germans. *GL does not count, neither does A7. Range, sure but its still smaller, however Escalade sells.

I think we all need to chill, let this expert do what he's doing as clearly, he's doing something at Cadillac that has not been done in the last three decades and therefore I think we ought to sit back and enjoy the ride.
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

If you go back in time you will see that Cadillac didn't always have names, they had "Types".

The grills all seem similar enough to me, so Cadillac should emulate the Germans by all having similar grills/faces?

And you are upset because the CT6 isn't the "right" size? Is the "right" size the exact same dimension as the S Class? I.e. emulate the Germans again? The 3 Series was perfect 2 generations ago, which the ATS is similar in dimensions to, so whatever the 3 Series is today is the only "right" size as the ATS is to small?

Art & Science is very unique looking, very American and I believe loosely based on jet fighters as the tailfins of the past were. CUE is very unique to the luxury world as well. Many may not like it, but Cadillac is very uniquely American looking.

I think Cadillac is going down a good path.
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

If Cadillac wants to copy the Germans, but be different: Cadillac can use shapes: Trigon Series (City Car), Tetragon Series (Small Crossover), Pentagon Series (ATS), Hexagon Series (SRX), Septagon Series (CTS), Octogan Series (Large Crossover), Enneagon Series (CT6), Decagon Series (LWB CT6), Hendecagon Series (Rolls/Bentley Fighter), Dodecagon Series (Escalade), And for a Mid-Engine AWD Hybrid Supercar: THE STATELY TETRAHEDRON BRO. Eventually they could debut a personal Jet and name it the Double Helix.
All joking aside: Why does Cadillac feel the need to copy the German naming scheme?
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

If Cadillac wants to copy the Germans, but be different: Cadillac can use shapes: Trigon Series (City Car), Tetragon Series (Small Crossover), Pentagon Series (ATS), Hexagon Series (SRX), Septagon Series (CTS), Octogan Series (Large Crossover), Enneagon Series (CT6), Decagon Series (LWB CT6), Hendecagon Series (Rolls/Bentley Fighter), Dodecagon Series (Escalade), And for a Mid-Engine AWD Hybrid Supercar: THE STATELY TETRAHEDRON BRO. Eventually they could debut a personal Jet and name it the Double Helix.
All joking aside: Why does Cadillac feel the need to copy the German naming scheme?


Why wouldn't the "Pentagon Series" be for Cadillac's high-security lineup? :blink:

It's not a "Septagon," it's a "Heptagon."
"Nonagon" is the more common term for "Enneagon."
Why not use "Triangle" and "Square?"

:p:

It's not a "German naming scheme" per se. It's just more easily translatable globally to use letters and numbers.
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

Here is the type of design Language Cadillac needs, which I call "Liquid Fusion" Audi is coming out with a game changing design language in 2015, I pray Cadillac does too and knocks our socks off..
I keep meaning to ask. How do you know Audi is debuting a new design language, and how you know it's going to be "game changing?
 

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Re: Cadillac Has not only lost its way. BUT IT'S "FACE" and "Rear" TOO!!

I keep meaning to ask. How do you know Audi is debuting a new design language, and how you know it's going to be "game changing?
Well, Audi is coming up with a new updated design language. Their head of design went to Mercedes a year or so ago.
Whether or not it's "game changing" remains to be seen.
 
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