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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

I wish he explained how this abomination passed through the digital rendering phase of exterior development. Also, why they choose the exterior design language of Hyundai sedans as benchmark, not MB, BMW, Tesla or Audi. I know I'm being overly pessimistic about the CT5, but this sedan does not look like "The Standard of the World." Does Cadillac even identify with prideful slogan anymore? Don't get me wrong, Cadillac's recent interiors feel and look fantastic in person. Not quite of par with MB, nevertheless Cadillac is making tremendous progress. Also, the new Blackwing TTV8 engine represents a new era of exclusive, luxury engines for the brand. Cadillac can try to fool me with press release photos of a dark grey painted, fully optioned CT5 sitting in a unlit background to hide it's Quasimodo appearance. But, we will see base model CT5s with white paint on the road during sunny days ruining what's left of Cadillac's attractiveness. Don't bother teasing the hopefuls with the Escala concept when you deliver something that looks like this.

 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

In other news and positive things read and seen.. I like how they went with a nice open pore wood and very nice framing of metal around


The speaker grill caught my eye in another thread. I like how its built into the countours of the door.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

I wish he explained how this abomination passed through the digital rendering phase of exterior development. Also, why they choose the exterior design language of Hyundai sedans as benchmark, not MB, BMW, Tesla or Audi. I know I'm being overly pessimistic about the CT5, but this sedan does not look like "The Standard of the World." Does Cadillac even identify with prideful slogan anymore? Don't get me wrong, Cadillac's recent interiors feel and look fantastic in person. Not quite of par with MB, nevertheless Cadillac is making tremendous progress. Also, the new Blackwing TTV8 engine represents a new era of exclusive, luxury engines for the brand. Cadillac can try to fool me with press release photos of a dark grey painted, fully optioned CT5 sitting in a unlit background to hide it's Quasimodo appearance. But, we will see base model CT5s with white paint on the road during sunny days ruining what's left of Cadillac's attractiveness. Don't bother teasing the hopefuls with the Escala concept when you deliver something that looks like this.

Just curious, do you like the CT6?
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

Oh, so that clears it up, I love the design now....



not.



If your explanation has to be that long winded, it's not really the best design idea.

Three concise sentences, one paragraph?

Maybe he can just grunt if asked again.
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
I think a lot of the controversy in general concerning the CT5's styling really stems from Cadillac dramatically changing it from what the Art and Science approach to luxury that it has been pushing for almost two decades. "We started off with lines.. then those lines began to curve.. now we are into circles." I brought up the move from the Corvette moving to the C7 a while ago now.. in this CT5 debate.. and I think it sticks. There were some over at the Corvette forums... that absolutely hated the fact that the lights looked like this in the rear..




instead of this:



I actually remember one dude threatening to never even look at a Corvette again unless Chevy came out with a retro fit kit.

So goes the idea of change.. And some just can't stand it. Gen3 CTS didn't sell... So GM, bless their hearts decided that instead of following the Gen2 formula in the first place with variants and promotion, have decided to go back to Gen1 as a tweener. Hopefully they wise up and utilize this fastback looking vehicle and morph a real coupe out of it too add sales. Hopefully the pricing is not to high, but still not to low. And on that I believe they are going to have a "Snow Leopard" base model that exists at 3 dealers thru out the country... I constantly rant on the fact that finding a 2.0L CT6 is an exercise in futility.. With what I just counted as 5 in all miles in the US from where I am. And even they start above $55K.. none at that supposed $50K starting price. Of course I have zero problem with that because my thought is that the CT6 should be starting at the same price point of a 720i if it existed here.. And that would most likely be in the high $60K range. I'd never buy it... Opting for the 750i or B7 equivalent everytime at a higher price. Because why posture at this level. The CT5 will most likely be the exact same I regards to price. From. The vehicle I saw at the show. The Premium Lux.. There was not one E450 or A6 there that looked as luxury or as good. They were pricing them at $60K and I think the CT5, for the sake of argument should, in Premium Lux be no less than $56K...even though if they priced it at the same as the Germans I wouldn't squawk..
 
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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

All of the nit picking on CT5 styling misses the problem and the point. It just isn’t good enough. Even if we assume the CT5 stands to toe with the best existing German car in the segment it still wouldn’t be good enough. Both Cadillac and Lincoln have put themselves in a position where simply bringing sedans and coupes on par with the competition isn’t good enough. And that is the real story here. Unless and until Cadillac starts building cars that are closer in style and character to the Elmiraj and Ciel than CT5 and CT6 it just won’t matter. And on the flip side, when and if they do execute like that, it won’t matter that the Germans have dominated here for decades now either.

Crossovers and sport utility vehicles offered by Cadillac and Lincoln don’t suffer under this same reality for a few reasons.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

All of the nit picking on CT5 styling misses the problem and the point. It just isn’t good enough. Even if we assume the CT5 stands to toe with the best existing German car in the segment it still wouldn’t be good enough. Both Cadillac and Lincoln have put themselves in a position where simply bringing sedans and coupes on par with the competition isn’t good enough. And that is the real story here. Unless and until Cadillac starts building cars that are closer in style and character to the Elmiraj and Ciel than CT5 and CT6 it just won’t matter. And on the flip side, when and if they do execute like that, it won’t matter that the Germans have dominated here for decades now either.

Crossovers and sport utility vehicles offered by Cadillac and Lincoln don’t suffer under this same reality for a few reasons.
If you're right, then both are doomed as far as cars go. And maybe they both are doomed, because I think there is some truth in what you say. They can build cars that are as good as or better than anything in that segment, which the CT5 may well be, and a lot of the market will still buy German cars by default. Just because they are German cars.

If they built the Elmiraj or Ciel, it would be very expensive. And because of that, it won't sell. And the whining about price here on GMI will be epic (which would be fun to read if nothing else).
 
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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

All of the nit picking on CT5 styling misses the problem and the point. It just isn’t good enough. Even if we assume the CT5 stands to toe with the best existing German car in the segment it still wouldn’t be good enough. Both Cadillac and Lincoln have put themselves in a position where simply bringing sedans and coupes on par with the competition isn’t good enough. And that is the real story here. Unless and until Cadillac starts building cars that are closer in style and character to the Elmiraj and Ciel than CT5 and CT6 it just won’t matter. And on the flip side, when and if they do execute like that, it won’t matter that the Germans have dominated here for decades now either.

Crossovers and sport utility vehicles offered by Cadillac and Lincoln don’t suffer under this same reality for a few reasons.
The CT5 is good enough, I believe. But it's design lacks the inspiration it really deserves and will go unnoticed.
 
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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

I think a lot of the controversy in general concerning the CT5's styling really stems from Cadillac dramatically changing it from what the Art and Science approach to luxury that it has been pushing for almost two decades. "We started off with lines.. then those lines began to curve.. now we are into circles." I brought up the move from the Corvette moving to the C7 a while ago now.. in this CT5 debate.. and I think it sticks. There were some over at the Corvette forums... that absolutely hated the fact that the lights looked like this in the rear..




instead of this:



I actually remember one dude threatening to never even look at a Corvette again unless Chevy came out with a retro fit kit.

So goes the idea of change.. And some just can't stand it. Gen3 CTS didn't sell... So GM, bless their hearts decided that instead of following the Gen2 formula in the first place with variants and promotion, have decided to go back to Gen1 as a tweener. Hopefully they wise up and utilize this fastback looking vehicle and morph a real coupe out of it too add sales. Hopefully the pricing is not to high, but still not to low. And on that I believe they are going to have a "Snow Leopard" base model that exists at 3 dealers thru out the country... I constantly rant on the fact that finding a 2.0L CT6 is an exercise in futility.. With what I just counted as 5 in all miles in the US from where I am. And even they start above $55K.. none at that supposed $50K starting price. Of course I have zero problem with that because my thought is that the CT6 should be starting at the same price point of a 720i if it existed here.. And that would most likely be in the high $60K range. I'd never buy it... Opting for the 750i or B7 equivalent everytime at a higher price. Because why posture at this level. The CT5 will most likely be the exact same I regards to price. From. The vehicle I saw at the show. The Premium Lux.. There was not one E450 or A6 there that looked as luxury or as good. They were pricing them at $60K and I think the CT5, for the sake of argument should, in Premium Lux be no less than $56K...even though if they priced it at the same as the Germans I wouldn't squawk..
You sure the guy who b---d about the C7 wasn't fastbal1?
 

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I think a lot of the controversy in general concerning the CT5's styling really stems from Cadillac dramatically changing it from what the Art and Science approach to luxury that it has been pushing for almost two decades. "We started off with lines.. then those lines began to curve.. now we are into circles." I brought up the move from the Corvette moving to the C7 a while ago now.. in this CT5 debate.. and I think it sticks. There were some over at the Corvette forums... that absolutely hated the fact that the lights looked like this in the rear..




instead of this:



I actually remember one dude threatening to never even look at a Corvette again unless Chevy came out with a retro fit kit.

So goes the idea of change.. And some just can't stand it. Gen3 CTS didn't sell... So GM, bless their hearts decided that instead of following the Gen2 formula in the first place with variants and promotion, have decided to go back to Gen1 as a tweener. Hopefully they wise up and utilize this fastback looking vehicle and morph a real coupe out of it too add sales. Hopefully the pricing is not to high, but still not to low. And on that I believe they are going to have a "Snow Leopard" base model that exists at 3 dealers thru out the country... I constantly rant on the fact that finding a 2.0L CT6 is an exercise in futility.. With what I just counted as 5 in all miles in the US from where I am. And even they start above $55K.. none at that supposed $50K starting price. Of course I have zero problem with that because my thought is that the CT6 should be starting at the same price point of a 720i if it existed here.. And that would most likely be in the high $60K range. I'd never buy it... Opting for the 750i or B7 equivalent everytime at a higher price. Because why posture at this level. The CT5 will most likely be the exact same I regards to price. From. The vehicle I saw at the show. The Premium Lux.. There was not one E450 or A6 there that looked as luxury or as good. They were pricing them at $60K and I think the CT5, for the sake of argument should, in Premium Lux be no less than $56K...even though if they priced it at the same as the Germans I wouldn't squawk..
You sure the guy who b---d about the C7 wasn't fastbal1?
Ha! I was thinking the same thing, now he's arguing it's great don't change it.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

Long winded? Do you not like reading? I counted 3 sentences on the subject.
Three concise sentences, one paragraph?

Maybe he can just grunt if asked again.
Yes, three sentences trying to cover their butt that do not clarify anything, and just sounds like some canned response they worked out with marketing beforehand to try and address it. I'll say it again, if you have to explain it AT ALL, it's not a good design. Just because this guy thinks "it’s a nice solution for the rear occupant" and "graphically likes where it sits on the car and the whole stance of the vehicle" isn't going to make me like something I don't like. Amazing things can be designed with all the technology and simulation software we have today, looks like they just gave up a bit too early on this design for me.
 
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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

What's controversial? It's like a six-window Sedan deVille, slightly updated. Like the little front quarter windows some cars have. I like those too, the more I can see the more I like it.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

It's weird...my first take was that I hated the C-Pillar then after a few mins of looking at it, the only thing I don't like about the CT5 is the quarter window ahead of the C-Pillar plastic/glass/metal piece. IMO, it would've looked much cleaner to sacrifice 100% rolldownability to use a single pane on the window.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

Yes, three sentences trying to cover their butt that do not clarify anything, and just sounds like some canned response they worked out with marketing beforehand to try and address it. I'll say it again, if you have to explain it AT ALL, it's not a good design. Just because this guy thinks "it’s a nice solution for the rear occupant" and "graphically likes where it sits on the car and the whole stance of the vehicle" isn't going to make me like something I don't like. Amazing things can be designed with all the technology and simulation software we have today, looks like they just gave up a bit too early on this design for me.

"... if you have to explain it AT ALL, it's not a good design."

So what should he have done when asked the question, just stood there and stared the interviewer down?

Or do you think the design should not have prompted any such questions? At launch, designers are always asked questions about different elements of a car's design. And if no such questions are asked, it probably means that the car is bland and forgettable.

Remember when the first CTS was launched in 2002? It was a controversial design to say the least and there was a lot of explanations. It was definitely a love-it-or-hate-it design. That's a good thing, since it gets people talking. In the case of the first CTS, there was enough love to make the car a big success. Hopefully the CT5 will have some measure of that.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

If the whisperings of Jaguar, and the appeal of the XJ with a soon to be extinct 5.0 liter Supercharged V8 were not so strong in my ear I could definitely seen a CT5-V in my immediate future.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

About the CT5’s controversial rear pillar design. “What we wanted to do was have an element that gave you a really fast upper while still maintaining good headroom,” Smith said. “The Interesting thing there is we could have gone and put in a sixth window in, but to me it’s less efficient and it’s a nice solution for the rear occupant as well. Graphically I like where it sits on the car and the whole stance of the vehicle.”
Could have put in a sixth window, but it's less efficient and a nice solution for the rear occupant... but you still pretended to put in a sixth window because the car would look retarded without it, so you just saved the cash and made it a piece of black plastic.

If you didn't think the car needed it, why did you fake one? It needed the look, but you can suck on it and take the plastic fake window over more glass?

Nobody else does this, why do you? It's the attitude of an organization doomed for failure.
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

The CT5 is cybersecure. “Our next-generation electrical architecture has encryption tech that will really set us apart,” said Vivian. “We will have some upgrades and enhancements in the future that you’re going to hear about shortly.”
It's hopeless. Do they think this is going to sell any cars?
 

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Re: WHAM!!! Cadillac Explains the C-Pillar in Interview with Automobile Magazine

Could have put in a sixth window, but it's less efficient and a nice solution for the rear occupant... but you still pretended to put in a sixth window because the car would look retarded without it, so you just saved the cash and made it a piece of black plastic.

If you didn't think the car needed it, why did you fake one? It needed the look, but you can suck on it and take the plastic fake window over more glass?

Nobody else does this, why do you? It's the attitude of an organization doomed for failure.
Pretty much how I read it too.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
How much cash do U people think was saved fabricating a piece of dedicated plastic over a piece of glass? The statements here, not to mention the obsession over this teeny tiny piece of the car is unreal.
 
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