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Not by buyers 'in the know'; but maybe folks stuck with '90s mindsets.
There is less of a memory now about the brand being an old man's car, but not enough of a memory as a go-to brand
I think the younger folks might not as strongly associate Cadillac with old man cars. But, the meat of the luxury car buyers is probably 40+ year old crowd, where we still lived through the 80's, 90's were Cadillac was predominantly an old man's car. That is hard to change. I'm on my second Cadillac and my friends know my two Caddy's weren't old man cars - yet I still got "why are you buying an old man car" when I bought my CT4-V (even though they all liked my ATS) - the perception is stronger than the reality of what they literally see right in front of them. I'm 53 and most of my friends are in that age range.

No matter what - I do get a lot of compliments on my CT4-V!
 

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It’s not a comparison, it’s just a personal preference
Ok, but also irrelevant to the discussion, as the vehicles don't remotely compete with each other. Akin to "I prefer the Miata to the BMW M8".

I'm going to be more optimistic about the Celestiq. I think it'll be all about customizing vs. some crazy unknown tech we've never heard of or a 2 billion horsepower battery. Look at Bently and RR - other than their styling and customization, what do they really offer that you can't get for cheaper as far as driving? Meaning they have high horsepower engines, but you can get that for cheaper. They have nice ride/handling (at least I assume they do), but again, you can get that cheaper. So, it'll come down to customization and cachet. I think GM can handle the customization, however, I do have fears about Cadillac's cachet.
But that's my point, Cadillac doesn't have the cachet to charge outlandish prices, and therefore I don't think it'll do that well at the rumored pricepoint.
 

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Part of me is still pissed off that GM didn't differentiate the Escalade further from the others full-sized BOF in its portfolio.

I think using the blackwing engine instead of the 6.2 L will have give something unique to the Esclade and would have help recoup some R&D and tooling for the Blackwing while keeping the CT6.

In that scenario the Escalade-V would have used the 550 hp version of the 4.2 L Blackwing while being helped by some sort of new version of the B.A.S. mild-hybrid system.

I know sales proved me wrong but for long term image Cadillac needs further differenciation from Chevrolet.

The current Escalade isn't worth the premium over the Tahoe High Country.
Couldn't disagree more. Subjectively, there is a huge visual upgrade up to the Escalade and the curved LED screens are the "mic drop".
 

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Ok, but also irrelevant to the discussion, as the vehicles don't remotely compete with each other. Akin to "I prefer the Miata to the BMW M8".



But that's my point, Cadillac doesn't have the cachet to charge outlandish prices, and therefore I don't think it'll do that well at the rumored pricepoint.
Not arguing - it certainly is a risk, but I think a gamble worth taking to raise the prestige of the brand.
 

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But that's my point, Cadillac doesn't have the cachet to charge outlandish prices, and therefore I don't think it'll do that well at the rumored pricepoint.
Yeah.
I've always wanted Cadillac to go back to that price point. But they really haven't put any of the pieces into place to guarantee success and/or recognition at that price point.

That's why I'm waiting for more information about the Celestiq. All we know is that it's got the fancy dimmable glass and it's essentially a bespoke car. What that means and how that translates to an ultra-luxury car buying experience and relationship is still an unknown.
I hope Cadillac isn't simply making a bespoke car with fancy glass and 1,000 HP.
And Lucid already does that at $80,000 less.
 

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my friends know my two Caddy's weren't old man cars - yet I still got "why are you buying an old man car" when I bought my CT4-V (even though they all liked my ATS)
Didn’t you also say they all changed their tune 180-degrees once they inspected your rides? ‘90s mindsets ignorant of the present.
 

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Ok, but also irrelevant to the discussion, as the vehicles don't remotely compete with each other. Akin to "I prefer the Miata to the BMW M8".



But that's my point, Cadillac doesn't have the cachet to charge outlandish prices, and therefore I don't think it'll do that well at the rumored pricepoint.
You underestimate the power the Cadillac Brand has on the American Psyche. If they execute it correctly, with genuine american engineering, materials and craftsmanship, they can fetch whatever price they ask for it. They just cannot cut corners.
Wheel Automotive parking light Tire Car Vehicle
 

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Couldn't disagree more. Subjectively, there is a huge visual upgrade up to the Escalade and the curved LED screens are the "mic drop".
It's the Internet. I don't mind if we disagree. You have a point : the Escalade dashboard is unique. I think it's not enought.

GM's needs to push Cadillac further in the luxury sphere. That would leave space for Buick's Avenir and GM's Denali. A century ago Cadillac was a competitor to Rolls-Royce, Bugatti and Bentley. Now it doesn't even compete with Germany's premium brands.

A good step in this direction would have been to give the Escalade a truly unique powertrain. A Cadillac's powertrain. I understand that the 6.2 L is good. But it isn't unique. And GM should have kept the CT6 and refine it. It didn't make profit for now but people were talking about it in good terms. There was a lot of money thrown in the CT6 and the Blackwing and dropping them before they make a name for themself was a mistake.

I have the same problem with the XT6. There is nothing that justify it's premium over the Enclave Avenir. What Cadillac needed was a CUV based on the CT6 platform. Not a Chevrolet Traverse High Country with nice leather.
 

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Didn’t you also say they all changed their tune 180-degrees once they inspected your rides? ‘90s mindsets ignorant of the present.
They like my cars yet still refer to Cadillac as an old man's brand at the same time they say "wow" - very contradictory. They see a CT4-V yet mentally picture a 1988 Fleetwood.
 

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Cadillac will get there as long as it keeps upping its game, as it has, but it will take time. I think that it has a better image than perceived by many on this site
Yes.
But the competition also continues to up its game as well.
It's not like they're going to take a 5 year break and wait for Cadillac to catch up.
They've had 20+ years to "fix" their image with very little headway made.

Escalade and Blackwing are great. But the standard mid-range cars — the one the bulk of luxury buyers should be looking at and buying — aren't all that.

Cadillac still hasn't realized or come to terms with what it takes to be a luxury brand.
And that's the issue.
EV's will not be their saving grace.
 

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You underestimate the power the Cadillac Brand has on the American Psyche. If they execute it correctly, with genuine american engineering, materials and craftsmanship, they can fetch whatever price they ask for it. They just cannot cut corners.
View attachment 65223
Exactly, and this has been the problem for Cadillac in producing previous attempts at creating halo vehicles. They cut corners. In its premise, Allante was an excellent idea for a halo for Cadillac. While it got favorable reviews, and even won a comparison against the Mercedes SL early on, and won another comparison with the SL and Jaguar XJ series roadster, it won those mostly on value proposition.

Also, it was a FWD roadster with a transverse engine which even then didn’t sound a heck of a lot like a prestige vehicle. You had to have at least a longitudinal AWD (which Cadillac would prove that platform could be reengineered into a longitudinal AWD layout with the Aurora Concept), and probably Cadillac should have developed a RWD platform for it.

While its 170hp V-8 was pretty good for the times, it was 30hp short of the SL’s 200hp, which was already due for a more potent engine. The complicated way Cadillac decide to manufacture was so costly, Cadillac couldn’t add things like an automatic top, which the SL already had.

The Allante was a spectacular vehicle, and its sales problems were overstated as it outsold every roadster in its segment except the SL. It sold substantially better than the XJ Series roadster or Porche’s entry.

The XLR was a great idea, but they built it on top of the C5 platform instead of the Sigma platform to save costs. They gave it a fiberglass body instead of the original plan of an all aluminum body, of course, to save costs. And while the Corvette was well-loved, luxury roadster buyers were not as taken by it, and it sold worse than the Allante.

Too much corner cutting. If the Celestiq avoids that fate, it will be a legit halo product. The Escalade? It’s fantastic. But we all know Cadillac could take it up significantly. And it would fetch an even higher price if Cadillac so demanded. GM has underestimated their ability to name a price, build an Escalade to that price. And get that price.

The Escalade isn’t anything of a disappointment. But it could transcend any luxury SUV Cadillac could dream to take on, if GM let’s them loose.
 
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They like my cars yet still refer to Cadillac as an old man's brand at the same time they say "wow" - very contradictory. They see a CT4-V yet mentally picture a 1988 Fleetwood.
That’s their outdated problem- they may well never be Cadillac customers. And that’s perfectly fine. But their base mindset for judging Cadillac is inherently flawed as its not reality-based.
 

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Mid grade cars from BMW, Mercedes Audi ETC are nothing to write home about either.
Cars these days have so many features that luxury brands may less sense more of the time. With easy credit the cars that you mention are more common and less interesting, to me, at least.
 

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Cars these days have so many features that luxury brands may less sense more of the time. With easy credit the cars that you mention are more common and less interesting, to me, at least.
Buying a luxury branded car isn't just about features. If it was strictly just that, then there wouldn't be a luxury branded anything!
On a strict feature for feature basis, it makes no sense to buy a luxury item.


What you buy into is the perception of a better product. And that perception is what makes or breaks a luxury brand. So luxury brands take time and a lot of money to cultivate their brands.

The only thing Cadillac has been able to cultivate as a recognizable and perceive better product is Escalade. It's got the market recognition. Why? Consistency. Cadillac has damaged the V brand already by lessening it's performance cred. Blackwing's time is fleeting, unless Cadillac is going to brand their performance EV's "Blackwing" as well? And if they start with something new, then it's back to square one. Their dealership experience is getting better but still evolving. Remember when Cadillac used to have the "Gold Key Program?" It's stuff like that that can bring prestige to the brand.

Cadillac has some of the best Caras it's bad in a long time. But what's the benefit of owning one, if the overall perception of owning one hasn't significantly shifted? Cadillac deserved to be treated more than just a "premium marketing trick." It simply needs to be better than everything at GM.
 

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There is less of a memory now about the brand being an old man's car, but not enough of a memory as a go-to brand
Cadillacs have been in my family for
Ok, but also irrelevant to the discussion, as the vehicles don't remotely compete with each other. Akin to "I prefer the Miata to the BMW M8".



But that's my point, Cadillac doesn't have the cachet to charge outlandish prices, and therefore I don't think it'll do that well at the rumored pricepoint.
I think that’s why they priced the Hummer like they did. To give room for Cadillac on Ultium higher up but AGAIN, they did it backwards. The Cadillac Ultium car (or cars) should have came FIRST.
 
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