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It shouldn't take 5 generations to get there though. And topping out at "only" $120,000, it still has quite a long way to go. Consider Range Rover is now $105-180,000. And the line isn't even fully fleshed out yet. GLS is $80-165,000 base if you include the Maybach version.
Escalade has found a nice little niche for itself. But I think it has room to expand on the high end.



Celestiq remains a big question for me.
Cadillac's intent is a "$250,000" car. But Cadillac hasn't operated in this tier since the 1940-50's. Creating and selling a car that is seen by the luxury consumer as being WORTH $250,000 is something I don't see Cadillac being able to do. Cadillac no longer has the name (or respect) to support it. I mean, how fully bespoke is this thing going to be? Barra used some interesting euphemisms and descriptors in the CES video about the Celestiq, which pointed at an extremely low volume, high end car. Which we already knew.

I don't know what Cadillac's sales projections are for it either. And making the jump from a $120,000 Escalade to a $250,000 sedan is all together different. My guess is "dozens."

I'm skeptical at a $100,000 Cadillac sedan. And maybe Celestiq will have a more "affordable" spin off version at that price point down the line. I dunno.
But, it seems like Cadillac is going for the moonshot, while they haven't really learned how to walk thru the luxury car market yet. Or in other words, this is Cadillac putting the cart before the horse.
I don't know what the right answer is or if my scenario is even what GM is doing. But what I can say, as a Cadillac owner, is the perception that Cadillac's are "old man cars" is still there and might contribute to the lengthy process GM is taking in my scenario. Plus, the somewhat fractured process (stopgap product, etc) is probably hindering them too. Put it this way, if GM put out a $190k version of the Escalade today, do you think people will seriously consider it? You question the public accepting a $200k+ Celestiq - I think that is exactly the reason GM is "baby stepping" it with the Escalade.

But I do agree that it is time to take that next step.
 

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I am absolutely befuddled as to why the Escalade wasn’t engineered to use the Blackwing engine. Would have taken the Escalade to the next level.
It would also have helped keeping the CT6 alive. I know that it wasn't a sale success but for a brand perspective Cadillac need a real flagship and not just rebadge from Chevrolet.

GM spended years mismanaging it's brands. It needs consistency and long term committement to built a good reputation.

Take Lexus. They make their money with the RX and that's just a Toyota Highlander. They charge more for the RX because of their flagship : the LS. They don't sell a lot of LS (or the LC) but the mere existence of the LS brings prestige to all the lineup. Lexus commands premium because of that prestige.

Even Hyundai is better at managing Genesis than GM is at managing Cadillac.
 

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LOLZ
A top end Yukon Denali Ultimate with every conceivable box checked doesn't clear $90,000.
Perhaps if GMC spent more time cultivating the Denali line to be more than it currently is, it can really stretch to$100-110K. I wouldn't expect more from a GMC or a Denali.

Escalade should be operating in the $90-150K range. But if you check all the boxes on a Platinum, just clears $120K. Escalade really should have an executive seating package too, and more attention paid to the middle and rear seating areas.

Escalade has done well for Cadillac. I just think Escalade can much better than it is.
We are saying that same thing. Basically Cadillac High end Chevrolet and GMC’s play in the same sand box.
They can be separated by features and procing, but it’s not happening.


GM cannot just put Escalade to $150K, without replacing it with something where it currently sits, as well as really differentiating it significantly from its Platform mates.

It would have to go a lot higher in execution to a point of hand assembly and real craftsmanship , wood floors, executive seating on all three rows, custom child seats, custom hand built motors, custom interior colors by each client.


Then the Denali line would have to step into where Escalade sits now and Chevrolet would have to step up into Some lower GMC space.

plus gimmicks like ‘Ultimate’ are sorta lame. Denali should suffice and just up the level of execution.

Lots of missed opportunities, especially given there is also Buick to cover some aspects of the market for Cadillac and Chevrolet, to allow Cadillac to move up.


But even at $90K, I would still get a Denali over a Bentega

Just priced one (Not the XL, and ignored the couple thousand of options under Accessories), and it still came out to $96,566.
I am shopping for my traverse replacement and those things are being marked up, but I think I found a dealer that can order one for me without mark ups
 

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Just a thought, could be nothing... To me it appears that GM has been taking the Escalade up a notch with each generation vs. the last. Could it be that they are slowly getting the public used to the idea of a very expensive Escalade? Can probably say the same for the other vehicles in Cadillac's lineup. In other words, 20 years ago the brand couldn't support the equivalent of today's $125k Escalade (or similarly priced Blackwing CT5).

Either way, I think Cadillac can now support higher levels of trim than offered today. Perhaps if the Celestiq does well it will convince GM to take that next step for the balance of the Cadillac lineup. Or, perhaps the green lighting of the Celestiq IS GM signaling that they think Cadillac is ready and leading off their elevating their vehicles.

Or I'm just dreaming :ROFLMAO:
Or, what's more likely to happen - the Celestiq falls flat on its face in the market because it winds up being absurdly overpriced and "just a Cadillac" for what they're asking, at least at the rumored prices.

We are saying that same thing. Basically Cadillac High end Chevrolet and GMC’s play in the same sand box.
They can be separated by features and procing, but it’s not happening.


GM cannot just put Escalade to $150K, without replacing it with something where it currently sits, as well as really differentiating it significantly from its Platform mates.

It would have to go a lot higher in execution to a point of hand assembly and real craftsmanship , wood floors, executive seating on all three rows, custom child seats, custom hand built motors, custom interior colors by each client.


Then the Denali line would have to step into where Escalade sits now and Chevrolet would have to step up into Some lower GMC space.

plus gimmicks like ‘Ultimate’ are sorta lame. Denali should suffice and just up the level of execution.

Lots of missed opportunities, especially given there is also Buick to cover some aspects of the market for Cadillac and Chevrolet, to allow Cadillac to move up.


But even at $90K, I would still get a Denali over a Bentega



I am shopping for my traverse replacement and those things are being marked up, but I think I found a dealer that can order one for me without mark ups
I'm not understanding this comment. Bentayga starts at 160k and aren't even in the realm of competing with each other in form factor/market. So not understanding this random 90k Yukon Denali comparison.
 

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Or, what's more likely to happen - the Celestiq falls flat on its face in the market because it winds up being absurdly overpriced and "just a Cadillac" for what they're asking, at least at the rumored prices.



I'm not understanding this comment. Bentayga starts at 160k and aren't even in the realm of competing with each other in form factor/market. So not understanding this random 90k Yukon Denali comparison.
It’s not a comparison, it’s just a personal preference
 

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Escalade should have some version of a V/Platinum/Exec Package already on the market for $150k. That's about the top end of their market in my mind. They would have to really overhaul their styling/design/materials/fit and finish to go any higher than that. And I don't think any of us thinks realistically they have any desire to do that.

Celestiq. Sigh, still vaporware at this point. You have to wonder with Lucid Air + EQS significantly less expensive than Celestiq's target price point, if the the GM brass is crapping themselves being undercut by superior fit/finish/luxury (EQS) or superior performance/range/buzz (Lucid). Cadillac really needs to OVER deliver if they are going to bring this thing out at that price point.

Bentagya is grotesque-looking.
It’s not a comparison, it’s just a personal preference
Sure, but anecdotal. For as much as people on GMI hate Bentagya, Cadillac hasn't proven they can produce any product with its luxury/fit & finish/breadth of engine choices (V8TT, V12TT, Diesel, Plug-in Hybrid) or their dealer experience. The point being, the higher the price point, the higher level of execution, service, and customization is required/expected - and Cadillac hasn't proven they can do any of those things yet.

P.S. BTW I think Denali's top end is $100k, and only because of crazy chip shortage car inflation + free money floating in the economy right now. Once things normalize and rates go up, you are only going to find a handful actually bought in the $90k's. My 2 cents.

P.S.S I have been clamoring for an Escalade V/VSport since I joined GMI all those years ago. I am quite happy they finally have the ballz to pull it off, just sad we can see the end of the road for ICE (Insert your projection here 😛) before they finally entered this market. Better late than never I guess.
 

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Or, what's more likely to happen - the Celestiq falls flat on its face in the market because it winds up being absurdly overpriced and "just a Cadillac" for what they're asking, at least at the rumored prices.



I'm not understanding this comment. Bentayga starts at 160k and aren't even in the realm of competing with each other in form factor/market. So not understanding this random 90k Yukon Denali comparison.
I'm going to be more optimistic about the Celestiq. I think it'll be all about customizing vs. some crazy unknown tech we've never heard of or a 2 billion horsepower battery. Look at Bently and RR - other than their styling and customization, what do they really offer that you can't get for cheaper as far as driving? Meaning they have high horsepower engines, but you can get that for cheaper. They have nice ride/handling (at least I assume they do), but again, you can get that cheaper. So, it'll come down to customization and cachet. I think GM can handle the customization, however, I do have fears about Cadillac's cachet.
 

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Escalade should have some version of a V/Platinum/Exec Package already on the market for $150k. That's about the top end of their market in my mind. They would have to really overhaul their styling/design/materials/fit and finish to go any higher than that. And I don't think any of us thinks realistically they have any desire to do that.

Celestiq. Sigh, still vaporware at this point. You have to wonder with Lucid Air + EQS significantly less expensive than Celestiq's target price point, if the the GM brass is crapping themselves being undercut by superior fit/finish/luxury (EQS) or superior performance/range/buzz (Lucid). Cadillac really needs to OVER deliver if they are going to bring this thing out at that price point.




Sure, but anecdotal. For as much as people on GMI hate Bentagya, Cadillac hasn't proven they can produce any product with its luxury/fit & finish/breadth of engine choices (V8TT, V12TT, Diesel, Plug-in Hybrid) or their dealer experience. The point being, the higher the price point, the higher level of execution, service, and customization is required/expected - and Cadillac hasn't proven they can do any of those things yet.

P.S. BTW I think Denali's top end is $100k, and only because of crazy chip shortage car inflation + free money floating in the economy right now. Once things normalize and rates go up, you are only going to find a handful actually bought in the $90k's. My 2 cents.

P.S.S I have been clamoring for an Escalade V/VSport since I joined GMI all those years ago. I am quite happy they finally have the ballz to pull it off, just sad we can see the end of the road for ICE (Insert your projection here 😛) before they finally entered this market. Better late than never I guess.
I do not hate Bentyga, It just doesn’t do it for me. I much prefer the pick up truck..

Cadillac Dealer experience is a hit or miss. My Carlsbad dealership is now with a dealer I like and the lady there has serviced my cars for well over a decade. She knows my kids and cares for my Chevrolet like a Cadillac.
 

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Bentagya is grotesque-looking.
I work on a beautiful corporate campus, the developer has his operations office based in my tower. Really nice guy and he likes cars, he has several lusty vehicles I've seen him driving. His daily driver is a Bentayga - I've examined it many times, as much as I try, I can't find an angle where it looks pleasing to me. Though, when it comes down to it, I don't think most RR or Bentley's look particularly good with their oversized "I'm rich" proportions, But the Bentayga is truly displeasing to my eyes.
 

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I do not hate Bentyga, It just doesn’t do it for me. I much prefer the pick up truck..

Cadillac Dealer experience is a hit or miss. My Carlsbad dealership is now with a dealer I like and the lady there has serviced my cars for well over a decade. She knows my kids and cares for my Chevrolet like a Cadillac.
Speaking of servicing - I wonder how GM will handle the servicing of the Celestiq. I assume they aren't expecting the owner to drive up to their local Cadillac dealer and park it next to a Chevy Spark that's waiting for an oil change. I'd think they'd have a person that'll come out and pick the car up. I wonder what their plans are... Anyone know how RR and Bentley do it? Or, is it not a big deal as you send your driver to take care of such trivialities?
 

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I work on a beautiful corporate campus, the developer has his operations office based in my tower. Really nice guy and he likes cars, he has several lusty vehicles I've seen him driving. His daily driver is a Bentayga - I've examined it many times, as much as I try, I can't find an angle where it looks pleasing to me. Though, when it comes down to it, I don't think most RR or Bentley's look particularly good with their oversized "I'm rich" proportions, But the Bentayga is truly displeasing to my eyes.
you nailed it. The I am rich look is what bugs me, I guess.
Speaking of servicing - I wonder how GM will handle the servicing of the Celestiq. I assume they aren't expecting the owner to drive up to their local Cadillac dealer and park it next to a Chevy Spark that's waiting for an oil change. I'd think they'd have a person that'll come out and pick the car up.
You mean to say, there is places where Cadillac and Spark are sold on the same floor? That is insane..
 

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you nailed it. The I am rich look is what bugs me, I guess.

You mean to say, there is places where Cadillac and Spark are sold on the same floor? That is insane..
My dealership sells all GM brands. They do have a separate, walled off, area for Chevy and Cadillac/Buick/GMC in the other. Service is combined for all brands, but they do a beautiful job of it - you drive into the well lit & maintained garage and a concierge takes your key and mileage then takes your car to the separate section where they are worked on. All the service consultants are right there and they bring your loaner right into the same area. I'd say they give everyone Cadillac service.

But, I'd say a $200+k custom built vehicle needs a whole different approach to sales and service.
 

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Speaking of servicing - I wonder how GM will handle the servicing of the Celestiq. I assume they aren't expecting the owner to drive up to their local Cadillac dealer and park it next to a Chevy Spark that's waiting for an oil change. I'd think they'd have a person that'll come out and pick the car up. I wonder what their plans are... Anyone know how RR and Bentley do it? Or, is it not a big deal as you send your driver to take care of such trivialities?
I do believe that Cadillac needs to offer some kind of white glove, concierge service for these customers.
 

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I am absolutely befuddled as to why the Escalade wasn’t engineered to use the Blackwing engine. Would have taken the Escalade to the next level.
I agree somewhat. However, I'd rather have a S/C 6.2 in the long run. Its a proven, reliable engine and relatively simple. I can only imagine the repair headaches the BW would be as it ages.
 

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I don't know what the right answer is or if my scenario is even what GM is doing. But what I can say, as a Cadillac owner, is the perception that Cadillac's are "old man cars" is still there and might contribute to the lengthy process GM is taking in my scenario. Plus, the somewhat fractured process (stopgap product, etc) is probably hindering them too. Put it this way, if GM put out a $190k version of the Escalade today, do you think people will seriously consider it? You question the public accepting a $200k+ Celestiq - I think that is exactly the reason GM is "baby stepping" it with the Escalade.

But I do agree that it is time to take that next step.
Yes. The perception that Cadillac is an "old man's car" is still there. That's despite years of V series and the new Blackwings. It's because Cadillac hasn't been consistent with the V-series. And limiting it to only a few cars. And my nearly 2 decade argument about Cadillac still remains — what exactly is Cadillac trying to be? If you look at the lineup, you really can't tell.

Cadillac has spent 5 generation with essentially incremental improvements to Escalade to differentiate it from Denali. And every generation it gets better. But the gap between the 2 are still too close.

If Cadillac made a $150,000 Escalade it enters the realm of Range Rover. Cadillac has some of the pieces in place. But it needs more.

GM baby-stepping? Like I said.... 5 generations of Escalade to get to $120,000. And now Cadillac is making a $130,000 jump to Celestiq? I mean... come on...
 
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