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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

Great forum.

I am looking at an 08 Equinox LS base model. I would be turning in my 06 silverado lease and have to roll 3000 (lease payoff verified by dealer) in the new purchase of the Equinox. I do not qualify for the pull ahead at the moment by 7 days and GMAC won't do it fo rthe dealer.

Based on current incentives (1500 +1000) and GMS pricing its about 4500 off at the moment so I would be 1500 ahead in the purchase.

Or I could wait for the 09's to roll in and HOPE, and I stress HOPE, for a good deal then also and not have to roll in the extra, basically working the payment out to the same amount or maybe a few dollars less. But I wouldn't get the GMS pricing, only Supplier if I waited. The dealer agreed to GMS pricing for me until 08-19-08.

I am not over miles and I dont NEED to turn it in right now, so any thoughts on 09 incentives and such or should I pull the trigger now? If I wait, it would be close to July of 09 before I turned in the lease.

I cant decide. Sorry for the long post.

Thanks
 

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If you're in the market for an SUV, it kind of depends on gas prices. If they continue to stay high, then you can probably get a great deal on an '09 in 6 months or so. But if gas prices fall to less than $3 as some are predicting, more people will buy SUVs instead of cars and there will be enough demand for dealers to sell near MSRP. In that case you would probably want to act now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What are your thoughts on the future of the pull ahead to get leasees out of their leases and into a purchase? Is the current pull ahead the last for a while??
 

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As an ex-salesperson, my best advice for 90% of the population is to never lease a vehicle.

My second best advice is to never try to get out of a lease early.
 

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As an ex-salesperson, my best advice for 90% of the population is to never lease a vehicle.

My second best advice is to never try to get out of a lease early.
This wouldexplain why your an ex-salesman, on a lease GM takes ALLLLLLL the loss, until now, VERY little liability to the customer on a lease, best option for almost everyone.

As for turning it in early, yes no difference, you owe you pay, gas milage will be better on the equinox, as for pull ahead, I dont see any pull ahead on the 09 inventory, interest rates are still 0 on our 09 so far, Equinox included, rebates are a bit different, so for 09 figure you will pay prolly 1500ish more.

Deals re going to be on 08 for sure, but our 08 inventory is low, so 09 are rolling out now. AT STICKER, unless we dont have equivalent 08, then we deal a bit....Equinox are VERY HOT sellers up here in northers BC, especially the sport models.

Onother thing is your making payments on your truck as well, so if you did it now you would not have to make those payments, so if you wait either way your paying. catch 22 really. who know what next July will bring, especially in Canada with the dollar, I have $11,000 rebtes on Diesels right now.
 

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There's no longer any tax advantage to a lease.

You make payments and have nothing to show for it.

You must carry more insurance on a lease.

You never build equity. You're liable for any excess wear and tear.

It's twice as easy to get out from under a purchase than a lease.

If the vehicle is in a serious accident, your insurance company is twice as likely not to total a lease, simply because of what's owed on it.


That would explain why you are stuck in a lease. You don't know what you are doing, which auto salespeople love.

Profit for dealer is usually 50% higher on a lease.

FYI, I was a top ten salesperson in Chevrolet Legion of Leaders, and Buick Salesmaster for 9 years running.
 

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With the huge depreciation on GM vehicles these days I don't think a lease is that bad of a deal for someone wanting new vehicles every couple years. At least up to the present, things are changing fast on leasing. On this deal I would keep the truck until the lease runs out, drop the keys on the desk and look to make a straight out deal on the next vehicle. And buy something you can live with for an extended term and keep it a while. Just my opinion, obviously.
 

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There's no longer any tax advantage to a lease.

You make payments and have nothing to show for it.

You must carry more insurance on a lease.

You never build equity. You're liable for any excess wear and tear.

It's twice as easy to get out from under a purchase than a lease.

If the vehicle is in a serious accident, your insurance company is twice as likely not to total a lease, simply because of what's owed on it.


That would explain why you are stuck in a lease. You don't know what you are doing, which auto salespeople love.

Profit for dealer is usually 50% higher on a lease.

FYI, I was a top ten salesperson in Chevrolet Legion of Leaders, and Buick Salesmaster for 9 years running.
after a 5 year Finance what do you have, a vehicle with no warranty for the last year or 2, so you make payments plus maintence, or BUY extended, either way you pay more. No need for it on a 3 year lease.

# 2 Not really on a Finance you MUST carry full coverage as well, The only extra thing GM makes me carry is 5 million liability, and if you dont now a days, you should. makes a diff of 3 dollars on mine.

# 3 been doing this for 6 years and have only ONCE seen equity in a truck after 3 years, and the guy put 15G down, that was the only reason. After 3 years on a lease you have 3 options, buy it out, sell it ot a friend, fire it back to GM and let them take the loss at acution.

on a Finance after 3 years, well your still upside down, have to burry the difference (LOSS) if you trade or make payments for another 2 years, well if I had leased I could be driving a NEW truck for the 2 years Im making payments on my OLD one, and they would be the same. ONLY difference is I have 2 NEW trucks in 6 years BOTH fully covered by GM, and an option to take another new one..On my finance I have a 5 year old truck with lots of miles, with no warranty for the last 2 so what did maintence cost ya?...or the extended taht I did not have to purchase on my lease....anyhow.

#4 GM offered Smart wear here and EVERYONE took it it was 600 bucks and covered you for up to 3500 bucks damage. besides if I own it and beat on it you will be dinged on the trade later, If you finance it and trade it with damage you are penilized for it, so really no difference, EXCEPT, when I bring my lease back with 4 bald tires, a banged bumper and a dent in the door, its only gonna cost me 600 bucks, instead of the 3 grand on a trade for a body shop to fix it.

#5 not really, unless the finance guy put cash down, they are in it for about 4 years, without burring $$.

#6...Its leased I dont care I only got it for 3 years.....HOWEVER picture this. you finace a car and smack it up after 3 years, the insurance company writes it off, and gives you book value..say 5000, BUT you owe, lets say 8000, who pays the other 3000....YOU, seen it happen LOTS....GM carries GAP protection for this reason. GM is on the hook for the diff NOT YOU.

Im not stuck in one, I got a lease cause my dealership pays for my SS, not me, beside I dont like vehicles with no warranty and like a new one EVERY 3-4 years, on a finance I would be upside down EVERYtime I traded.....Im top here as well, and for you to say leasing is wrong...whatever.

no one said there was anything wrong with making money, maybe thats why you are not in sales anymore...Im quite successful.

Gm is going to loss some because of leasing and it dont work for every one, but even guys who are high milers leaseinbg still works, YES your payment is higher, but you dont eat it on the backend, a 3 year old truck with 200,000km is not worth nothing anyhow, try and TRADE that after 3 years, still owing 25 grand.
 

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GM vehicles come with a 5 year warranty, so you're wrong there. And I can pay for a lot of repairs for the amount of a lease note in case something's not covered.

#2 You can not lease, carry ten or twenty grand in liability here, pay 50 bucks for an LLC, and save the money. I promise there's more than 3 bucks difference in 20 grand liability and 5 million.

#3. Anyone who doesn't get equity after three years either got fleeced when they bought it, were upside down on their trade, or paid no down payment. Add the payments and the buyout price and you could have paid 10 grand less to not lease. You're also responsible for excess miles, wear and tear, and reconditioning.

#4 You're comparing apples and oranges. If you don't know how to buy a vehicle correctly, which you obviously don't then yes, you'll always be upside down, just like a lease.

Smart Wear is just another way to get in your pocketbook. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

GM doesn't carry gap coverage. You paid for it.

You wouldn't be upside down if you bought the vehicle at a good price, didn't buy stupid add ons like gap, and weren't upside down on a trade after three years. IF and I say IF you were, it wouldn't be nearly as much as you're upside down on a lease.

You're probably paying double or triple the interest rate on a lease that you could have bought it for. The FTC has determined that a lease is not a debt, so they don't have to disclose an interest rate to you.

No there's nothing wrong with making money. But there's also nothing wrong with me keeping as much of it as possible.

Yes leasing works. But for who.

I am not in sales any more because I don't need to be. I have a several hundred thousand dollar home that is paid for, land that is paid for. Two Pontiac G6's and one Vibe in my driveway, both paid for.

How'd I do that? Leasing cars to suckers for 9 years.

By the way, The National Auto Dealers Association, Dave Ramsey, and Consumer Reports agree with me about leasing.

I don't see anyone here agreeing with you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks all for the different angles of looking at it.

The way I see it, I will pay now or later so it does not really matter. Even if I buy used and add an extended warranty it would work out to the same as just getting something now minus all the incentives and such.

I leased because I wanted a truck for a few years and I got a great deal on it so I went for it knowing that gas prices might be an issue. I agree that you don't have anyting to show for it when you turn it in BUT, I drive 25000 miles a year so even if I buy, I would be in the negative trying to sell/trade-in a 3 yeard old vehicle with 75000+ miles on it. It will never be worth what I will owe in MY situation even if I got 0% financing.

Besides, I plan to drive the Equinox as long as it runs so I will be keeping it.

Thanks again,

Rob
 

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GM vehicles come with a 5 year warranty, so you're wrong there. And I can pay for a lot of repairs for the amount of a lease note in case something's not covered.

#2 You can not lease, carry ten or twenty grand in liability here, pay 50 bucks for an LLC, and save the money. I promise there's more than 3 bucks difference in 20 grand liability and 5 million.

#3. Anyone who doesn't get equity after three years either got fleeced when they bought it, were upside down on their trade, or paid no down payment. Add the payments and the buyout price and you could have paid 10 grand less to not lease. You're also responsible for excess miles, wear and tear, and reconditioning.

#4 You're comparing apples and oranges. If you don't know how to buy a vehicle correctly, which you obviously don't then yes, you'll always be upside down, just like a lease.

Smart Wear is just another way to get in your pocketbook. You fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

GM doesn't carry gap coverage. You paid for it.

You wouldn't be upside down if you bought the vehicle at a good price, didn't buy stupid add ons like gap, and weren't upside down on a trade after three years. IF and I say IF you were, it wouldn't be nearly as much as you're upside down on a lease.

You're probably paying double or triple the interest rate on a lease that you could have bought it for. The FTC has determined that a lease is not a debt, so they don't have to disclose an interest rate to you.

No there's nothing wrong with making money. But there's also nothing wrong with me keeping as much of it as possible.

Yes leasing works. But for who.

I am not in sales any more because I don't need to be. I have a several hundred thousand dollar home that is paid for, land that is paid for. Two Pontiac G6's and one Vibe in my driveway, both paid for.

How'd I do that? Leasing cars to suckers for 9 years.

By the way, The National Auto Dealers Association, Dave Ramsey, and Consumer Reports agree with me about leasing.

I don't see anyone here agreeing with you.

holy crap moron relax, GM vehicles JUST came with a 5 year warranty in 07 and ITS only PT, which aint much.

dont know how your ins works clearly different then here. Its goverment run here.

I drive like 10,000km a year, I baby my car, I did not get Smartwear, I dont need it, some people do. And your responsible for that either way, bring your car in baged and you get dinged on the trade allowance....and you said it yourself, to have equity in 3 years, you said the customer had to have put money down, I dont on a lease. I had no vehicle when I got it so I was not upside down, I dont plan on buying it out, its going back. So no need to worry about buyout. NOT MY PROBLEM, GMs.

LOL, working at a GM dealership Im pretty srue I got my car for a good price...LOL

oh your right on the Gap, they did when I got mine but have since dropped it. my bad.

I did not get smartwear, I dont need it, some people could use it, like the kid that brought his lease back with the side of the box caved in and a $3245 bill..sent it back and no questions asked, for 600 bucks, pretty good deal in my books.

LOL, I pay 1%, thru the dealer and GMAC....read the papers, holy **** man, not sure where you screwed people, but its full disclosure here.

Everyone has aseveral hundred thousand dollar home, I have yet to see one for sale under a hundred grand, Im glad you have your G6...they are cute, as is your Matri....Vibe...not sure how you did it, but most anyone could to be frank, G6s are not expensive, nor are vibes, but anyhow, I not concerned with how much money you may or may not have, I am doing quite well and will take my SS over your G6, and when the lease is up this spring, a new V8 Camaro will be parked in its place. Kids are grown now so no need for a 4 door...See if I paid cahs the money I would have lost trading it after 3 years, WOW.....

It is apparent with GM getting out of leasing who was taking the loss before.

funny ^^^ (thread starter) agrees with me, your last comment makes it clear on your attitude, I dont consider my clientele 'suckers'

wow touched a nerve there.....call me an idiot if it makes you feel better, but I did read the contract, lol, and I do work here so Im pretty sure I know my rate and things. I can also do a little math and I know if I had bought and for what Im doing I would have lost around 15 grand come trade time this spring.

OH and you said there was NO tax advantage to leasing, well not true you ONLY pay tax on your payment NOT the price of the car vehicle...I think that is a bit of a savings, but what do I know.
 

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"touched a nerve there"?

"That would explain why you're an ex salesman."

"Maybe that's why you're not in sales anymore, I'm quite successful."

You started the personal attacks.

Yes, many people do have several hundred thousand dollar homes, and nice cars. But they lease cars and live paycheck to paycheck with maxed out credit cards. I OWN everything, 100%.

And yes, when you lease a car and any competent finacial advisor (see previous post) tells you it's not smart, then yes you are a sucker. P.T Barnum style.
 

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I would never roll $3K into another loan, that's a real bad way to get started.

Cars are the dumbest thing in the world to spend money on, it's a depreciating asset. Buy the car, pay it off in no more than 3 years and then drive it for free while you save the monthly payment towards repairs or another vehicle. Leasing is a great way to never have a thing in YOUR bank account, it's a sucker shell game.

Why would you guys trade cars every 3 years? Buy something you like one time and drive it for 10 years.
 

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There's no longer any tax advantage to a lease. .
In Canada, and if you're a business, there still is. But most people don't lease for the tax benefits. A good accountant can work with either.

You make payments and have nothing to show for it.
On a loan, you will have payments, and then own a depreciating asset in the end. In the meantime, your payments are higher. Eventually when the car is paid off, you'll have something that's worth nowhere near what you paid for it.

You must carry more insurance on a lease.
Again, here in Canada, insurance is mandatory, and there's no price difference to my insurer between leasing and financing. Same costs. Same benefits.

You never build equity.
We have plenty of Toyotas come back at lease end with equity. If your mileage is low, the car is in good shape, and if you took care of it, we can often find $500 to $2000 in equity. Depends on market condition. A purchased car rarely has equity either.

You're liable for any excess wear and tear.
And you aren't liable for wear & tear if you own your own car? If you smash it, or put on "too many" kilometres per year, you will kill your resale value. There's also pride of ownership. I like my car to be presentable, scratch free, etc... I'd still have to fix anything that goes wrong.

It's twice as easy to get out from under a purchase than a lease.
In either situation, you're going to take a hit. Explain how one is easier? You can be just as upside-down (or more) on a finance than on a lease.

If the vehicle is in a serious accident, your insurance company is twice as likely not to total a lease, simply because of what's owed on it.
And at the end of the lease, you hand back the keys as long as the car is fixed properly (which is what you have insurance for). Ever try to resell a car that's been accidented? It lowers the value. There goes any "equity".

Profit for dealer is usually 50% higher on a lease.
according to who? Not Toyota where I work now, and not GM where I used to work. Same markup. Cash, finance or Lease. We don't have fluctuating MSRPS.
 

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I would never roll $3K into another loan, that's a real bad way to get started.

Cars are the dumbest thing in the world to spend money on, it's a depreciating asset. Buy the car, pay it off in no more than 3 years and then drive it for free while you save the monthly payment towards repairs or another vehicle. Leasing is a great way to never have a thing in YOUR bank account, it's a sucker shell game.

Why would you guys trade cars every 3 years? Buy something you like one time and drive it for 10 years.
like I said leasing is not for everyone, if you keep your cars 10 years leasing is notfor you, SOME people, liea new vehicle every 3-4 years, and dont wnat oneoff warranty, personally neither do I, but each ot their own..

In your case leasing amy not be the best optinon. for other it is. either eway pay for maintence or pay a payment, I will pay a payment, I KNOW what it is every month, blown tranny and no warr and Im out 3-7 Grand, depending on thecar. Then what trade it then, what is it worth, nothing no dealer would take it, so not only buy a new one, have to get rid ofthe old one.
 

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When you buy, you own a vehicle that's worth no where near what you paid for it. Depends what you paid for it. Used Toyotas or Hondas in good condition are worth a large percentage of what you paid for it.

You will own a depreciating asset. Agreed.
But you have something to show for your payments.
You have nothing to show for lease payments.

Depending on the state in the U.S. you can have as little as $10k liability. There's a minimum of $100k mandatory with a lease, and I promise there's a great deal of difference in the premium for $10k vs $100k.

A purchased car with a decent down payment financed for the same 3 years you lease will have equity. The purchase problem comes in with no down payment or negative equity in trade.

You are paying wear and tear in a lease for something you don't even own.

You will never be as upside down in a purchase as a lease, if you purchased with a decent down payment and not too long of a term.

We don't have fluctuating MSRP's here either. And nobody pays MSRP. But there's no law that says if I agree to sell you the car for $1000 back of sticker, that if you switch to lease the same car, I have to keep the same deal. I can switch back to MSRP on the lease. And most F and I departments do exactly that.

I realize Canada has a different market. The '08 Equinox that was mentioned earlier as still selling at MSRP there would sell for invoice less holdback less any dealer incentives less customer incentives here. And you'd have your pick of colors and options as well. The dealers here have them coming out their ears, and no place to park them all.
 

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But you have something to show for your payments. You have nothing to show for lease payments.
You are telling me that a 5 year old Aveo or Cavalier is "something to show"?
So what if you have something to show? How much is that 5, 6, 10 year old Cavalier worth? What are you paying in maintenance? What are you paying for an extended warranty and/or repairs?

Let's say you lease a "cheap" car for $250 per month ($48 months), and then at the end of that lease, you lease another new one for $250 a month.

At the same time, someone else BUYS car for about $360 month for 60 months term.

Lease guy ends up paying $250 x 48 + $250 x 48 = $24000.

Finance guy pays $21600 + extended warranty, plus cost of maintenance (surely the vehicle will need new brakes and tires, as well as other standard maintenance items over an 8 year span.

At the end of 8 years, the lease guy has nothing. (He can start his 3rd lease).
Finance guy owns a 8 year old economy car, that's worth what? Pretty much nothing, expecially if it's a domestic. Even if it's worth $2000, it's not worth very much.

The lease guy got to drive 2 cars. Got to change things up. Got the benefit of new design change, new features that didn't necessarily exist 4 years ago, new build quality (all the manufacturer's get better each year), and obviously the "show off" factor as well.

Depending on the state in the U.S. you can have as little as $10k liability. There's a minimum of $100k mandatory with a lease, and I promise there's a great deal of difference in the premium for $10k vs $100k.
If you could afford the better insurance, wouldn't you want it regardless? In Canada, we have a minimum 1 million liability. Why would anyone get $10k liability? If you can't afford proper insurance, how are you going to afford your dumb mistake that damages someone else's person, property or vehicle?

A purchased car with a decent down payment financed for the same 3 years you lease will have equity. The purchase problem comes in with no down payment or negative equity in trade.
Exactly my point. Most people don't put down a huge down payment these days. Many people have negative equity rolled in. And Equity isn't based on money down. That's your money already. It's not that the car is worth more. You put money to make it worth more.
I think you're not totally aware of what "equity" means.
Paying cash for a vehicle doesn't give the vehicle instant equity. The car still loses a 3rd as soon as you drive it off the lot.

You are paying wear and tear in a lease for something you don't even own.
Again, a misconception. You OWN a leased vehicle. You are responsible for the vehicle. You need to clean it, and maintain it, and service it, and PAY for it. You don't need to get permission to drive it. You don't have to ask the leasing company if you can borrow the car. You OWN it for 3/4/5 years. Then at the end of your lease, you have the option to return your car. But during that period, you OWN it. Regular Wear & Tear is built into the lease. Do what's expected of you, and there are no surprises at lease end.

You will never be as upside down in a purchase as a lease, if you purchased with a decent down payment and not too long of a term.
Again, that's a big IF. Most people don't do short term financing with big cash payment down. Most people have as small a payment and as long a term as possible.

We don't have fluctuating MSRP's here either. And nobody pays MSRP. But there's no law that says if I agree to sell you the car for $1000 back of sticker, that if you switch to lease the same car, I have to keep the same deal. I can switch back to MSRP on the lease. And most F and I departments do exactly that.
As a customer, you are an idiot if you let that happen to you. No customer at my dealership negotiates based on a finance or cash payment, only to switch to a lease afterwards. When a lease buyer buys, they base their negotiations on the lease payment, not on MSRP. There's no opportunity to pick up extra gross. We negotiate the payment right away. Again, it comes down to being informed. If you do fall for that "scheme", there's no reason that you have to agree to buy at the newly presented lease price either. Get up and walk out if they change the deal on you.
 

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As an ex-salesperson, my best advice for 90% of the population is to never lease a vehicle.

My second best advice is to never try to get out of a lease early.
That is why you are an ex-salesman. Up untill 3 weeks ago I would reccomend the opposit. leases were good for 90% of my customers. The payments were less, they always drove a car with a full warranty, and were always driving a car with all of the current saftey features. If they were a high milage customer, even better, no one depreciates a car like GMAC - only .10 cents a mile.

Now they changed the game and those g6s that were 200 to 250 are now in the mid 300s to mid 400s. At BPG thats it folks, if you want to lease you only have the G6, everything else is buy only.
 

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There's no longer any tax advantage to a lease.

You make payments and have nothing to show for it.

You must carry more insurance on a lease.

You never build equity. You're liable for any excess wear and tear.

It's twice as easy to get out from under a purchase than a lease.

If the vehicle is in a serious accident, your insurance company is twice as likely not to total a lease, simply because of what's owed on it.


That would explain why you are stuck in a lease. You don't know what you are doing, which auto salespeople love.

Profit for dealer is usually 50% higher on a lease.

FYI, I was a top ten salesperson in Chevrolet Legion of Leaders, and Buick Salesmaster for 9 years running.
Big deal everyone who sells chevys were in the Legion of liars.
 
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