Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

Can't wait for the feedback on this one ... I think we're all getting a bit crazed over the Chinese Buick stuff.

Maybe the Chinese will bring back the GNX or Grand National, too, then we'll have mutiny.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

Ridiculous..

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

I am very upset we should get this vehicle.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

I looked at all the Chinese Lacrosse pictures. Talk about the grass being greener on the other side of the Pacific. Big Deal. It looks like a chunky, shorter Deville - it's boring compared to the NA Lacrosse/Allure.

This whole "GM in China is great" meme has finally jumped the shark.

You can go out right now and buy a Saturn Greenline BAS hybrid - remember? The one everybody says is this totally awesome sedan that everybody should buy? You can have one. Right now.

And these super sales of Buick in China? The look like huge percentage jumps, but consider the tiny minority of people in China that can own a car. If you were a typical Chinese person, you wouldn't have any car at all. These are only for the very upper crust of society. The people building these Buicks can't afford any car, let alone a new Buick.

Remember? They have no labor rights. Totalitarian - that's China. In fact, if workers migrate from rural areas, they literally have no right to claim residency. They're forced to live warehoused in filthy dorms and spend half their earnings everyday just to eat.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

I looked at all the Chinese Lacrosse pictures. Talk about the grass being greener on the other side of the Pacific. Big Deal. It looks like chunky Deville - it's boring compared to the NA Lacrosse/Allure.

At least someone thinks the 1996 Riviera meets 1999 Taurus-inspired US LaCrosse is "exciting". To me, the litany of excuses from Buick USA & fans in the face of a 40% drop in sales over the last few years have "jumped the shark". And another reskinned something shared with 4 other US brands standard operating Buick procedure won't turn it around, either. Just wait until XXXX comes out! It's the same old GM wine in a Buick bottle, albeit better looking in the case of the Enclave. Same input, same results. Buick USA can only bang its head with the same restyle a GMC-Pontiac-Chevy sold right next door and this time it WILL sell! hammer so many times before permanent damage sets in and all credibility is lost.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

I looked at all the Chinese Lacrosse pictures. Talk about the grass being greener on the other side of the Pacific. Big Deal. It looks like chunky Deville - it's boring compared to the NA Lacrosse/Allure.

This whole "GM in China is great" meme has finally jumped the shark.

You can go out right now and buy a Saturn Greenline BAS hybrid - remember? The one everybody says is this totally awesome sedan that everybody should buy? You can have one. Right now.

And these super sales of Buick in China? The look like huge percentage jumps, but consider the tiny minority of people in China that can own a car. If you were a typical Chinese person, you wouldn't have any car at all. These are only for the very upper crust of society. The people building these Buicks can't afford any car, let alone a new Buick.

Remember? They have no labor rights. Totalitarian - that's China. In fact, if workers migrate from rural areas, they literally have no right to claim residency. They're forced to live warehoused in filthy dorms and spend half their earnings everyday just to eat.

You are correct about Chinese labor and the plight of the average Chinese but wrong about the LaCrosse. The Chinese LaCrosse looks like a chunky Caddy Deville? That's what a Buick is supposed to be a knock off Caddy. The current LaCrosse has Jaguar wannabe written all over it and it does not work. Give me the Deville look anyday.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

Let me save most of you the trouble.

OMG!!!! WTF?!?!? CHINESE BUICK SHOULD BE HERE!!! PREPOSTEROUS!

Almost no one here gave a damn about Buick before and no one should give a damn now. You want a Hybrid? Saturn & Chevy will have plenty.

 

Wow, it is a sad day when China is getting not the better looking Buicks but now the more advanced ones.

I hate to say it Ming, but your sig hits the nail dead on.

 

At least someone thinks the 1996 Riviera meets 1999 Taurus-inspired US LaCrosse is "exciting". To me, the litany of excuses from Buick USA & fans in the face of a 40% drop in sales over the last few years have "jumped the shark". And another reskinned something shared with 4 other US brands standard operating Buick procedure won't turn it around, either. Just wait until XXXX comes out! It's the same old GM wine in a Buick bottle, albeit better looking in the case of the Enclave. Same input, same results. Buick USA can only bang its head with the same restyle a GMC-Pontiac-Chevy sold right next door and this time it WILL sell! hammer so many times before permanent damage sets in and all credibility is lost.

OMG you are right! Many here compare one car to another and they are really just reaching and make no sense. However when you made that statement you are right on point. It is the mix of the two. For me the Super looks hot....on the outside and should have been the base model.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

You are correct about Chinese labor and the plight of the average Chinese but wrong about the LaCrosse. The Chinese LaCrosse looks like a chunky Caddy Deville? That's what a Buick is supposed to be a knock off Caddy. The current LaCrosse has Jaguar wannabe written all over it and it does not work. Give me the Deville look anyday.

I can accept that people might prefer the looks of the Chinese version - yet at the same time it's on the same W body that everybody claims is the ruin of GM - it would only be a 'reskin' so wouldn't we still have the same things to complain about? Compared to the boring-on-purpose Impala, the US Lacrosse looks like a frickin' '63 Riviera.

The other thing is that I think the BAS won't work on bigger engines because they are harder to turn over - you can only get that belt so tight - so would GMI dudes be stoked as hell to have a 4 cylinder W body hybrid Buick?

My Dad has an 04 Lesabre and my Uncle can't get over how it gets great mileage, has room and is quiet. That's what these 60 year olds care about. He has an '04 Chrysler Concorde and is chomping on the bit to get rid of it because it's loud and gets lousy gas mileage - he keeps holding the LeSabre up as the standard. He couldn't give two hoots about a sophisticated intake valve design or rear drive (read: Zeta).

It's no wonder Buick dealers weren't so amped about getting the Zeta since it offers things their customers don't care about (rear drive! a big engine!) and sacrifices things (gas mileage, packaging efficiency) that they do care about.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

And what is wrong with the classy looking American entry level luxury sedan?

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


Maybe China can save Buick? ... certainly with the volume Buck needs the surplus China production can come here and fill dealer lots no problem at all.

(not serious at all)

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

So...

Why don't we close a US plant or two, shuffle production around, and import all Buick sedans from China. (the Enclave is nice, leave it alone)

 

And these super sales of Buick in China? The look like huge percentage jumps, but consider the tiny minority of people in China that can own a car. If you were a typical Chinese person, you wouldn't have any car at all. These are only for the very upper crust of society. The people building these Buicks can't afford any car, let alone a new Buick.

Remember? They have no labor rights. Totalitarian - that's China. In fact, if workers migrate from rural areas, they literally have no right to claim residency. They're forced to live warehoused in filthy dorms and spend half their earnings everyday just to eat.

Do you have any actual facts to back that up? These people aren't working in sweatshops.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

At least someone thinks the 1996 Riviera meets 1999 Taurus-inspired US LaCrosse is "exciting". To me, the litany of excuses from Buick USA & fans in the face of a 40% drop in sales over the last few years have "jumped the shark". And another reskinned something shared with 4 other US brands standard operating Buick procedure won't turn it around, either. Just wait until XXXX comes out! It's the same old GM wine in a Buick bottle, albeit better looking in the case of the Enclave. Same input, same results. Buick USA can only bang its head with the same restyle a GMC-Pontiac-Chevy sold right next door and this time it WILL sell! hammer so many times before permanent damage sets in and all credibility is lost.

MING: I don't mean to excuse failure. I usually defend Buick, but I do agree they need to be given something - god ANYTHING unique. They've not only thrown Cadillac everything in the book, they gave them a new low price model. How can it be a wonder that Cadillac does well?

Given the Buick buyer's fetish for smoothness and economy, GM might have offered Buick both the 2.8 and 3.6 HF engines. Particularly if they were unavailable in other GM cars, it would give people (besides just the aged) a great reason to go Buick. Considereing that you can get the 3.6L in allegedly cheaper brands like Pontiac and Saturn, how can it be a wonder that Buick can ask people to pay more?

 

Given the Buick buyer's fetish for smoothness and economy, GM might have offered Buick both the 2.8 and 3.6 HF engines. Particularly if they were unavailable in other GM cars, it would give people (besides just the aged) a great reason to go Buick. Considereing that you can get the 3.6L in allegedly cheaper brands like Pontiac and Saturn, how can it be a wonder that Buick can ask people to pay more?

I could see using the 3.6, but I am not sure of the 2.8. When I think of a Buick, I think of a car that has a lot of low end torque. I had a Park Ave. and that thing rocked, I could nail the pedal and it would push you back. Now it wasn't the fastest car by a long shot, but it did have a decent amount of torque.

 

Why waste money on a W-Body? They should wait until the Epsilon LaCrosse, and then offer a Hybrid option. I wonder, sometimes it seems the W-Body will linger on forever.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

Maybe the Chinese will bring back the GNX or Grand National, too, then we'll have mutiny.

LMAO This is so true, I'd kill every GM exec making these decisions...or just go to china and import one...lol Seriously wanna save Bukick? just bring the Vehicles there making in China here! LOL....Rediculous...

Joe

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

I hope that the Lacrosse on the Epsilon II platform resembles that of the Chinese Lacrosse.

 

Do you have any actual facts to back that up? These people aren't working in sweatshops.

Actually they are working in sweatshops and worse. 35% of the world's coal is mined in China, but 80% of the coal mine deaths occur there.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/13/content_391242.htm

A couple of weeks ago there was a story about a collapse at a construction site. It was covered up for awhile but the story got out. There have been numerous stories in the WSJ about the terrible living and working conditions that factory and construction workers deal with. The Chinese society is out of control in many ways. Per a recent WSJ article, over 300 million Chinese are subject to food-borne disease each year. Witness the recent tainted wheat gluten from China that killed a number of pets here.

Given all this plus their lack of adherence to any kind of environmental protection or intellectual property laws, there is obviously no way a US-based worker or company can compete with them on price. But somehow we can't seem to figure out a way to factor these things in and continue to buy from them based solely on the bottom line.

 

Can't wait for the feedback on this one ... I think we're all getting a bit crazed over the Chinese Buick stuff.

Maybe the Chinese will bring back the GNX or Grand National, too, then we'll have mutiny.

yeah we are getting China crazed because it is crazy what China gets and what we get... Just look at Their lacrosse and look at ours.. WTF

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

I can accept that people might prefer the looks of the Chinese version - yet at the same time it's on the same W body that everybody claims is the ruin of GM - it would only be a 'reskin' so wouldn't we still have the same things to complain about? Compared to the boring-on-purpose Impala, the US Lacrosse looks like a frickin' '63 Riviera.

The other thing is that I think the BAS won't work on bigger engines because they are harder to turn over - you can only get that belt so tight - so would GMI dudes be stoked as hell to have a 4 cylinder W body hybrid Buick?

My Dad has an 04 Lesabre and my Uncle can't get over how it gets great mileage, has room and is quiet. That's what these 60 year olds care about. He has an '04 Chrysler Concorde and is chomping on the bit to get rid of it because it's loud and gets lousy gas mileage - he keeps holding the LeSabre up as the standard. He couldn't give two hoots about a sophisticated intake valve design or rear drive (read: Zeta).

It's no wonder Buick dealers weren't so amped about getting the Zeta since it offers things their customers don't care about (rear drive! a big engine!) and sacrifices things (gas mileage, packaging efficiency) that they do care about.

Which is why Buick should offer a LWB EPI 2 as well as the LWB RWD Zeta in case those customers who want a large sedan do not want a RWD one. Then you can have the SWB EPI 2 for your midsize LaCrosse replacement. My main question is, when I look at the Chinese designed Buicks and what we get has GM fired the moron that OK'd what we got?????????????

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

MING: I don't mean to excuse failure. I usually defend Buick, but I do agree they need to be given something - god ANYTHING unique. They've not only thrown Cadillac everything in the book, they gave them a new low price model. How can it be a wonder that Cadillac does well?

That's all I really ask for. Cadillac has unique cars like the CTS and STS, Buick gets another Epsilon II Malibu me-too reskin and a reskin of a GMC sold in the same dealerships as the "save the brand" models. And we're expected to believe that those 2 new models are all Buick needs to stay relevant.

The reason the China thing is so enticing is that the product is already there, ripe for the picking. And the Park Avenue smells of luxury, not rental fleets. But if GM USA was willing to really invest in doing something with US made or designed (built in Mexico/Canada) --- I'll restate - REALLY - invest in something unique, then I would be less inclined to see the Chinese options as attractive.

As it stands, styling and QuietTuning is the only real differentiator with the new Buicks, and that is far from being enough. Even with 3 more cars like that, Buick would still be a brand of restyled something you could buy at some other GM brand down the street (or worse yet, at the same BPG dealership), probably for less. That's a failed old strategy and its time for something radical and new.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

That's all I really ask for. Cadillac has unique cars like the CTS and STS, Buick gets another Epsilon II Malibu me-too reskin and a reskin of a GMC sold in the same dealerships as the "save the brand" models. And we're expected to believe that those 2 new models are all Buick needs to stay relevant.

The reason the China thing is so enticing is that the product is already there, ripe for the picking. And the Park Avenue smells of luxury, not rental fleets. But if GM USA was willing to really invest in doing something with US made or designed (built in Mexico/Canada) --- I'll restate - REALLY - invest in something unique, then I would be less inclined to see the Chinese options as attractive.

As it stands, styling and QuietTuning is the only real differentiator with the new Buicks, and that is far from being enough. Even with 3 more cars like that, Buick would still be a brand of restyled something you could buy at some other GM brand down the street (or worse yet, at the same BPG dealership), probably for less. That's a failed old strategy and its time for something radical and new.

Your right Ming but in the present GM financial climate NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Buick is the Mercury of GM.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

Yea, that is a better looking car, what should had happened with the Regal.

But again, it still isn't the most gorgreous thing in the world, it easily beats the Lacrosse NA, and nudges the Altima, though steals their tail lights or vice versa.

It is probably the same hybrid set up as the Aura and Vue Green lines.

 

Re: Buick may get its first hybrid in the form of a LaCrosse...in China (It's a W-body!)

Your right Ming but in the present GM financial climate NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Buick is the Mercury of GM.

Which swings the argument back to the alternative, which is to take already existing Chinese Buicks and bring them here if Buick USA (Detroit) refuses to invest in seriously unique product.