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Interesting. Thanks for that.

They 'seemed' more intune with what the 'wealthy' are going to purchase then the rest of us 'regular folks'.
Speaking of a Cadillac getting 100mpg.
They made fun of people purchasing a Prius simply as a 'fashion statement' more then people that are actually trying to save money.
Making fun of people that live in Olympia (Wash?) as if they are all Hippies.
I lived in Olympia Washington and it is not all hippies.
All the while they are at a very expensive hotel/resort having a very expensive meal along the seashore.

What they did not really take a look at was what is their base of people looking to purchase.
The Rank & File people that need a fuel efficent vehicle.
That to me is where they should be looking at. Not just the wealthy.

I am sure there are people that buy a hybrid so they 'look' like they give a damn about the enviroment and so forth.
However, that is not so much the case anymore. Not at over $4.00/gallon.
My best friend bought a Camry Hybrid through me at the Toyota dealer I bought my car at.
I got him a pretty sweet deal last year.
Since that time two of his co-workers went to that same dealershp and bought Camry hybrids as well.
Not because of any fashion statement but, because they all travel a lot.
They drive a lot of distance between Detroit & Chicago and in between and a lot with in those cities.
They need a fuel efficent vehicle.

That was another thing I did not hear them speak about.
The Camry Hybrid or the Malibu Hybrid.
The 'regular people's cars'.

They all seemed 'out of touch' in my opinion and the rest of the gang there was doing some serious butt kissing with Bob Lutz.
Were they all Yes Men/Women?
 

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I don't get it. GM cars were always known as the fashion statement alternative to Ford, which explains why GM cars were always more stylish than Fords.

The Prius is rightfully a fashion statement. Like GM cars form a long time ago, the Prius expresses the style of the driver. Can't GM "leadership" (spineless wimps who suck up to Consumer Reports) return to their styling enterprise and build a hybrid that these environmentally-concious folk would love to wear as their next fashion accessory?

Of course my post here is entirely pointless and academic in light of the Tahoe hybrid and the Chevy Volt that's on the horizon...

(why GM leadership are spineless wimps:
http://www.3autos.com/20060320/Criticism-of-Consumer-Reports-prompts-GM-apology,6827/ )
 

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I was driving on the freeway today and saw two similar yet different vehicles and I got mad at both of them.

The first was a Toyota Highlander Hybrid, I could not stop thinking about how ugly it was and wondered if the fuel economy was really that wonderful or you bought it because it said HSD on the back.

The second was a GMC Acadia, which I feel is a really nice vehicle and wondering why GM has not stuck the 2-Mode into anything other than a full size truck or SUV. Why have they not pushed it into the Acadia or Malibu. I know that it will show up in the Vue soon, but why not more and why not sooner.

On a side note I would rather have a diesel in a Malibu or Vue than a bunch of batteries.
 

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With a 40 mile range, what will be the point, I'm guessing the gas motor will get the same fuel economy as an Aveo. So anyone that drives 100 miles a day will actually get probably just a bit better mileage from the Prius. Once the Volt is out, hope for GM's sake I'm wrong or no one does the math or the Volt will stall after about 10,000 sales.
 

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With a 40 mile range, what will be the point, I'm guessing the gas motor will get the same fuel economy as an Aveo. So anyone that drives 100 miles a day will actually get probably just a bit better mileage from the Prius. Once the Volt is out, hope for GM's sake I'm wrong or no one does the math or the Volt will stall after about 10,000 sales.
Read up a little more. The generator should produce something similar to 150 mpg. How it can produce the same as an Aveo or a Prius makes no sense, at no time is the generator used to drive the vehicle, it is solely used to recharge the batteries. There is no need for more than a 40 mile range since most people's commute is 40 miles or less. Most people will never need the generator unless they decide to go on longer weekend trips.
 

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Who are these guys, anyway?

I always thought the 2-Mode was going to be tried out on the trucks first, and then get launched all over many models, and the Mild-Hybrid would be an option on many, many cars because it fits in a conventional transmission size casing, instead of the bulky Prius system.

Instead you could hardly find the 2-Mode, or the 6-speed, and the Mild-Hybrid wasn't on many cars at all, and that's hard to find, too.

Maybe if GM wasn't so cash-strapped they could have made a bold move with the technology that was emerging. That would have changed the image right there. "We offer 10 hybrid models - some of them with V8s." The economies of scale GM is capable of - or was - is so ridiculous I can't believe they didn't get those 6 speeds, Milds, and 2-Modes out accross more models.

Can you imagine comparison shopping against Ford or Chrystler models if the 6 speed and BAS were ambigitous on the dealer lots?

I know many people would have opted for 2,500 option for better fuel economy (that's NOTHING on monthly payments when you finance) and take a huge cut in their variable fuel costs...especially when it was always going up.
 

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If Miniscule Bob says something, you can't believe him.

GM has no credibility after years of deceptive advertising, fraudulent fiscal reports, and dishonest practices. Bob Putz is a documented liar....one pricing strategy ended up being 14 versions; end of badge-engineering has been ignored. Credit for cab-forward at Chrysler - an outright fraud.

The only way you can believe GM is when you see it for sale.
 

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Read up a little more. The generator should produce something similar to 150 mpg. How it can produce the same as an Aveo or a Prius makes no sense, at no time is the generator used to drive the vehicle, it is solely used to recharge the batteries. There is no need for more than a 40 mile range since most people's commute is 40 miles or less. Most people will never need the generator unless they decide to go on longer weekend trips.
But isn't it gas only after 40 miles. Maybe I'm missing something in what I have read. And if I have a short commute why am I buying an electric car? Where do a lot of the urban yuppies that live in expensive condos plug these in at? The person that might buy it with a long commute likely can't plug it in at work. Didn't the Impact have a much longer range. I remain convinced that GM has missed the mark some here. Think initial hype and fanfare will be great, then once the number crunchers and bloggers start reporting on real world results, the reality will change. Hope I'm wrong, but a Prius type vehicle would seem a better path at the moment. But kudos to em for trying, beats doing nothing.
 

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But isn't it gas only after 40 miles. Maybe I'm missing something in what I have read. And if I have a short commute why am I buying an electric car? Where do a lot of the urban yuppies that live in expensive condos plug these in at? The person that might buy it with a long commute likely can't plug it in at work. Didn't the Impact have a much longer range. I remain convinced that GM has missed the mark some here. Think initial hype and fanfare will be great, then once the number crunchers and bloggers start reporting on real world results, the reality will change. Hope I'm wrong, but a Prius type vehicle would seem a better path at the moment. But kudos to em for trying, beats doing nothing.
So the fact that you may use some gas occasionally makes the VOlt pointless?

You assuming nobody owns a house or something? If it's not for everyone, it's for nobody?

The reason the Volt is so efficient is because the gas engine only charges the battery, no connection for electric motor to the wheels. The engine can run at a constant speed where it is most efficient, which is better than ranging from 1500-3500 that you usually are between in a large sedan.

If I buy a volt and live 40 miles from work, I can drive all the way to work on the battery, and drive home on the generator providing the electricity and getting 120 or so MPG effectively.

If you don't have a plug at home, well then no, it's not for you, but that's kinda like saying the internet is useless just because you don't have access to high speed service.
 

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But isn't it gas only after 40 miles. Maybe I'm missing something in what I have read. And if I have a short commute why am I buying an electric car? Where do a lot of the urban yuppies that live in expensive condos plug these in at? The person that might buy it with a long commute likely can't plug it in at work. Didn't the Impact have a much longer range. I remain convinced that GM has missed the mark some here. Think initial hype and fanfare will be great, then once the number crunchers and bloggers start reporting on real world results, the reality will change. Hope I'm wrong, but a Prius type vehicle would seem a better path at the moment. But kudos to em for trying, beats doing nothing.
No it isn't. The gas generator is simply used to recharge the battery, once it is recharged it turns off again and runs however many miles left on the battery before recharging it again. Regardless, nearly all places it is easy to find somewhere to plug into. Places like California are adopting plugs everywhere. Condos and apartments all over where I live also have plugs (cars in winter). The majority of people who commute to work can remove their independence from fuel all together. If they do less than 40 miles every day all they will need to do is charge it at night and then they are set for the next day's commute.

The future Prius will also be a plugin with a much shorter range and a much less reliable battery pack. If GM missed the mark then explain why the whole market is attempting to produce something similar to the Volt, but unable to reproduce it at the same scale as GM.
 

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Liberals are against personal mobility?

this guy is seriously out of touch and the douchebags around him and just kissing his butt.

What a blowhard.


The above statement is so true for many people who are into a global even economic playing field around the globe. A playing field where we all pay the same and there are no advatages for anyone. those in economics that are "winners" get punished and those that are the "losers" get handouts. Its a very sad thing. Many people especially in the liberal community strongly feel that the economic advantages that we have in this country through are own efforts, creativity and hard work should be clipped back aka as a form of punishment through taxation or some other form of regulation, all in the effort to give economic parity for other less successful regions of the world. I have talked to a number of people in general over the years that have said that when fuel goes up to a price in the range of what the Europeans are paying they would be happy with that. Well, we are still in many cases well below what the Europeans are paying for fuel but the economic woes many will be feeling this winter with high fuel bills I would suspect will make many of those anti-competitive types rethink their bizarre thinking on this issue.

What many in this community fail to realize is that when there are high prices for fuel we all lose. There isn't as much commerce because of cost on many different levels. Tourism, shipping, business transations, trade shows, etc, etc, etc. All this lack of economic activity has a direct influence on companies bottom lines. If companies can't increase the bottom line than they are not going to be hiring more employees and innovating their products and services as quickly or efficiently as they would if fuel was more reasonably priced. If business isn't making $$$$$ like they should than the burden of taxation on all of us will be that much greater.
 

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No it isn't. The gas generator is simply used to recharge the battery, once it is recharged it turns off again and runs however many miles left on the battery before recharging it again. Regardless, nearly all places it is easy to find somewhere to plug into. Places like California are adopting plugs everywhere. Condos and apartments all over where I live also have plugs (cars in winter). The majority of people who commute to work can remove their independence from fuel all together. If they do less than 40 miles every day all they will need to do is charge it at night and then they are set for the next day's commute.

The future Prius will also be a plugin with a much shorter range and a much less reliable battery pack. If GM missed the mark then explain why the whole market is attempting to produce something similar to the Volt, but unable to reproduce it at the same scale as GM.

It's a good question but you asked it backwards. GM has set the Volt as a stand-alone EREV vehicle with what appears to be the longest gas-free range of about 40 mi under perfect driving conditions. They have also announced, recently, that the price tag for this blank-sheet new technology will be $40000 ( with hopefully some governmental assistance down the road ).

So the question is not 'why is the whole market attempting to produce something similar?' the real question for the other makers is 'assuming the public goes for this new leap of technology, how can we sell more units and make more money?'.

GM is not in the hybrid business, yet. OK it just entered. Ford and Toyota and Honda have been there for 10 yrs. They have vehicles on the road and in development that use 10 yrs worth of prior development that may only need minor adjustments at relatively low costs to provide similar results as the Volt. None may be as capable as the Volt in terms of gas-free driving but neither will they be as expensive as the Volt.

Imagine if the Volt hits the street @ $40000 while the PHEV Escape, which is much bigger and more capable, hits the street at $35000 and the PHEV Prius comes in at $33000. OK so the Ford and Toyota vehicles 'only' get 20 gas-free miles. Guess which ones will get the most interest from Mr/Mrs Middle America.

Then factor in that the current NiMH battery technology gets less and less expensive as volume increases across all makers and the 'traditional hybrid' getting 50 mpg runs $18000 to $25000 for most buyers. Which do you think Mr/Mrs Bluecollar Steelworker will opt for? $40000 or $20000?

Actually there is room in this HUGE market in N America for all the options and we're just in the first days of this revolution. The Volt will likely sell out to the very well-to-do that have to have the latest and the greatest; but the volume is going to be tiny. The PHEV Fords and Toyotas will also sell out but in larger numbers ( more profit ) to those a little more cost conscious; but the volume will be small. The traditional hybrids will boom and volume will go off the boards as prices come down generating HUGE profits.

In the end it only comes down to a business decision of which technology, at which cost, will generate the most volume and the highest profits. These are just businesses afterall. Total Profit is the only real measuring stick.
 
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