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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I did not see this posted anywhere, and it seems pretty relevant.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/02/bmw-slashes-v8-engine-production-in-favor-of-fours/

The new BMW 7-Series has just stepped out from behind the curtain, and it's taken the stage to a house only half full. Demand for BMW's big engines has dropped so low that the house of the roundel says it can make enough 8-bangers to satisfy the world's demand using just one shift for four days.

A member of BMW's supervisory board put it plainly: "We are producing the wrong engines here." Even the sixes, the center of BMW's engine constellation, are being taken out of production in Munich to be replaced by those with two fewer cylinders in 2011. When the phase-out is complete, the company will be able to build 560,000 4-cylinders per annum. Care for a BMW 716i, anyone?
 

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Now let's wait for the media to call BMW forward thinking while ignoring GM's similar announcement for Cadillac recently.

V8s will become rare indeed if this keeps up.
 

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U.S. CAFE and EU CO2 regulations will virtually eliminate cars and trucks/SUVs the size most of drive. Also, V8s for the mass market will disappear. IMO Given this future I have difficulty understanding the nearly endless criticism of GM for dropping Zeta and V8 engine programs. Not to mention, the criticism of GM reevaluating all their future products. They're having to figure out how to deliver products the public doesn't seem to want, based on historical buying patterns, and attempt to make profits from products they historically have been unable to build profitably.
 

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I haven't been in a BMW 4 cylinder in a number of years so I don't know how good they are, now. But my sister had a 3 Series in the mid 90's and that 4 banger was a dog! I had another sister who bought a Toyota Camry weeks after, and my BMW sister hated the BMW after that (the Camry's 4 cylinder was smooth as silk, no vibration or buzziness).

The only 4 cylinder engines I will stand up for are unfortunately from: Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. The engines are small but built with inherent quality control.
 

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Key issue is that BMW is still OFFERING V8, V10, and V12 engine options in their cars.

They just need to adjust their production to match demand. Big difference from Cadillac, who won't even offer them to those who want them.

Though, I must note the V10's days are numbered... BMW is moving to a turbo V8 for the next generation M5 and M6.
 

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I haven't been in a BMW 4 cylinder in a number of years so I don't know how good they are, now. But my sister had a 3 Series in the mid 90's and that 4 banger was a dog! I had another sister who bought a Toyota Camry weeks after, and my BMW sister hated the BMW after that (the Camry's 4 cylinder was smooth as silk, no vibration or buzziness).

The only 4 cylinder engines I will stand up for are unfortunately from: Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. The engines are small but built with inherent quality control.
GM's 2.0 DI Turbo is a fantastic engine. Smooth AND powerful!
 

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Thank you for posting this.


I hope all the whining know-it-alls in the Cadillac forums that cried at the cancellation of the Ultra V8 read this.
 

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The difference is... BMW IS NOT ABANDONING THE V8!!
BMW will still offer the V8 because there is a demand for it. They recognize that.

GM says, "There is no demand for a V8, so lets cancel it."
So much for Cadillac's V8. Or any hope of a V8 or prestige that comes with the V8.
But God forbid they get rid of the V8 in every single gas guzzling truck or the Corvette. GM's sacred cows? No...downer cows!! And GM fails to realize it.

How long do you think it would take BMW to sell the 730i in the US? Probably no time at all.
How long do you think it would take Mercedes to sell the S350 in the US? Probably no time at all.

You all seem to forget the depth of the 7 and the S. We only get a small subset in the US compared to the rest of the world! Neither are eliminating their V8's. They're adapting it to suit the market. So cars like the next-gen M5 will not have a V10, but a high output twin turbo V8. That engine will most likely be dropped into a future 7. And so on.

They recognize what it takes to stay relevant in the world's ultra-competitive luxury market.
 

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I don't think BMW will put the gasoline i4s into the 7-series and the bigger BMW vehicles.

The i4s will be for the smaller cars like the 1-series, 3-series, Z, and their crossover variants.
 

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It looks like turbos are really becoming popular.

GM - 2.0 liter turbo already in production. Massive volume expected for the new 1.4 liter turbo.
BMW - 3.0 liter twin turbo already in wide production. 4.4 liter twin turbo replacing many of their larger engines.
VW/Audi - already uses its 2.0 liter turbo a lot, and the latest version of that got a power boost. High performance models are almost all using turbos now.
Ford - Ecoboost turbochargers galore!
 

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I haven't been in a BMW 4 cylinder in a number of years so I don't know how good they are, now. But my sister had a 3 Series in the mid 90's and that 4 banger was a dog! I had another sister who bought a Toyota Camry weeks after, and my BMW sister hated the BMW after that (the Camry's 4 cylinder was smooth as silk, no vibration or buzziness).

The only 4 cylinder engines I will stand up for are unfortunately from: Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. The engines are small but built with inherent quality control.
The gasoline I4 engines from BMW are okay but the diesel 4 cylinder are absolute fantastic.
 

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Turbocharged engines work. They make great mid-level to performance-level engines.

They allow for small displacement engines to have a lot of low-end torque. Great for daily driving and performance.

There's also so much performance potential for a factory turbocharged car since the engine's internals are designed to be boosted, plus all of the plumbings are already there.

For some reasons, many car makers kind of stepped away from turbocharging during the last decade. I am glad they are bringing it back.
 

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The difference is... BMW IS NOT ABANDONING THE V8!!
BMW will still offer the V8 because there is a demand for it. They recognize that.

GM says, "There is no demand for a V8, so lets cancel it."
So much for Cadillac's V8. Or any hope of a V8 or prestige that comes with the V8.
But God forbid they get rid of the V8 in every single gas guzzling truck or the Corvette. GM's sacred cows? No...downer cows!! And GM fails to realize it.

How long do you think it would take BMW to sell the 730i in the US? Probably no time at all.
How long do you think it would take Mercedes to sell the S350 in the US? Probably no time at all.

You all seem to forget the depth of the 7 and the S. We only get a small subset in the US compared to the rest of the world! Neither are eliminating their V8's. They're adapting it to suit the market. So cars like the next-gen M5 will not have a V10, but a high output twin turbo V8. That engine will most likely be dropped into a future 7. And so on.

They recognize what it takes to stay relevant in the world's ultra-competitive luxury market.
They also have the luxury to produce such engines at low, but sustainable and profit making volumes and can demand some pretty hefty prices on V8 cars to maintain that profit without sacrificing much volume since they have good penetration in world markets. Cadillac still doesn't even exist in many markets. Why go ahead with an engine program that is a near 100% loosing money deal every engine sent out the door when you are already in a financial pickle??

On top of all that it's only going to get more expensive to get the emissions legal worldwide on V8's going forward.

Now why they won't adapt what are perfectly fine V8's in the LS? line to Cadillac is the bigger question to me??

But, I think the thing a lot are missing from this article is that V8's really are set to become VERY rare hardware in the future compared to today. In cars anyhow. I wouldn't be surprised if this leads to cars like the 5 and E eventually not having V8 options anymore outside their M and AMG versions in their next iterations. And IF that happens, Cadillac will have been ahead of the curve. It would be by accident and lack of viable V8's mostly, but still ahead of the curve.
 

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I wouldn't be surprised if this leads to cars like the 5 and E eventually not having V8 options anymore outside their M and AMG versions in their next iterations. And IF that happens, Cadillac will have been ahead of the curve. It would be by accident and lack of viable V8's mostly, but still ahead of the curve.
Cadillac doesn't have the same global appeal as BMW and Mercedes. I think there are still enough wealthy people in the world to sustain production of v8, v10, and v12 BMWs and Mercedes.

If Caddy can't sell v8 cars here, then there's no need to try. Hardly anyone buys Caddies outside of North America.
 

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Cadillac doesn't have the same global appeal as BMW and Mercedes. I think there are still enough wealthy people in the world to sustain production of v8, v10, and v12 BMWs and Mercedes.

If Caddy can't sell v8 cars here, then there's no need to try. Hardly anyone buys Caddies outside of North America.
And hardly anyone buys Cadillacs in the US either!
The problem is, Cadillac has a piss poor reputation for luxury outside its borders, and a declining one within its borders.

Do wealthy people want a Cadillac? Chances are, it's not even on the list.

For Cadillac to gain respect, it needs the V8. Period. They may only sell a handful of them, but they're needed. It's something to look up to.
THey may sell more V6 variants of whatever car.... but offering the V8 is still a must.

CTS needs a V8 (or a very powerful V6) to compete with the 550 and E550.

BTW... in order for Cadillac to be considered "Standard of the World," it needs to have "global appeal" or at least globally recognized excellence in luxury. Cadillac doesn't come close -- yet.
 

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For Cadillac to gain respect, it needs the V8. Period. They may only sell a handful of them, but they're needed. It's something to look up to.
THey may sell more V6 variants of whatever car.... but offering the V8 is still a must.
Granted, the STS is far from an S-Class killer, but it has offered this choice for a while (albeit with that 4.6L boat anchor of theirs).....won't the DTS do the same soon as well??
 

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GM's 2.0 DI Turbo is a fantastic engine. Smooth AND powerful!
Hi Ambalanche:

I forgot to mention, I owned a Chrysler convertible with either a 2.2 or 2.4 turbo four that was excellent! It was smooth, powerful and economical. I am so surprised I forgot about it, it was absolutely trouble free! In fact before I bought that convertible, I rented a Chrysler New Yorker it also had the Turbo-four and it was so smooth I thought it was a 6 until I realized it used so little fuel.

What cars are the 2.0 DI available in?
 
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