BMW: All Wheel Drive M Models Planned, X3/X4 M Possible, No i8 M

3351 Views 69 Replies 19 Participants Last post by F14CRAZY, Jan 20, 2015

Envoy4Life

Discussion Starter · Jan 14, 2015

BMW says X3 M & X4 M could happen, all-wheel drive M models planned, no M version of i8
World Car Fans
January 13, 2015
By: Adrian Padeanu

BMW M chief Frank van Meel has shed some light in Detroit about the division's future plans.

Speaking to Autocar, Van Meel acknowledged he has a soft spot for the 1-Series M Coupe and that he would "love to do something in the direction of again". Needless to say, the model's successor can only be the M2 Coupe already spied testing and likely to debut in September at the Frankfurt Motor Show. It will probably use a six-cylinder 3.0-liter turbo engine with around 380 HP (279 kW) wrapped around in a more aggressive body with beefier wheels, larger brakes and a quad exhaust.

Interestingly, van Meel went on to say he sees a business case in building M versions of the X3 and X4 duo in the same vein as the X5 M & X6 M siblings.

As previously specified in a few reports, future M models will get an optional all-wheel drive system but van Meel said all M models will remain RWD-biased and the new tech will primarily be used to improve traction as a method to avoid understeer.

According to BMW M's boss, the M Performance lineup will be expanded and is going to act like a solution for a high-end model slotted underneath the fully-fledged M version, just like Mercedes-Benz is doing with the newly founded AMG Sport series.

Full article available at link.

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Envoy4Life

Discussion Starter · #2 · Jan 14, 2015

And that's one more of Cadillac's competitors planning to add an AWD option on their high performance cars. BMW is going to join Mercedes-Benz and Audi in offering AWD on said high performance cars.

Your move, Cadillac. If it were ever a time to borrow a page from your competitor's book, this would be the page to borrow. Future V Series cars need to offer AWD IMHO.

dslay04

· #3 · Jan 14, 2015

Envoy4Life said:
And that's one more of Cadillac's competitors planning to add an AWD option on their high performance cars. BMW is going to join Mercedes-Benz and Audi in offering AWD on said high performance cars.

Your move, Cadillac. If it were ever a time to borrow a page from your competitor's book, this would be the page to borrow. Future V Series cars need to offer AWD IMHO.

Hmmmm. BMW will do anything for sales. awd is dumbing down the driving experience and making it too easy. Almost like playing Forza. BMW is lost in the woods blindfolded pulling a rope.

Envoy4Life

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jan 14, 2015

dslay04 said:
Hmmmm. BMW will do anything for sales. awd is dumbing down the driving experience and making it too easy. Almost like playing Forza. BMW is lost in the woods blindfolded pulling a rope.

AWD reduces understeer/oversteer, can help you get through snowy conditions, and generates extra money for the company. And besides, don't make it standard. Have it as an option.

What's not to like?

dslay04

· #5 · Jan 14, 2015

Envoy4Life said:
AWD reduces understeer/oversteer, can help you get through snowy conditions, and generates extra money for the company. And besides, don't make it standard. Have it as an option.

What's not to like?

AWD makes handling unpredictable on a track. Snow tires are a much better solution for the snow than AWD, see jalopnik.com. You have the M performance models for the additional money.

Envoy4Life

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 14, 2015

dslay04 said:
AWD makes handling unpredictable on a track. Snow tires are a much better solution for the snow than AWD, see jalopnik.com. You have the M performance models for the additional money.

That's why I'm saying make it optional. They'll gain a lot more snow belt sales.

See: Jaguar.

dslay04

· #7 · Jan 14, 2015

Envoy4Life said:
That's why I'm saying make it optional. They'll gain a lot more snow belt sales.

See: Jaguar.

Jag isn't doing it with the RS cars which are equivalent to the V's. The F type R is like Cadillac 's Vsport w/ a bit more kick.

Envoy4Life

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jan 14, 2015

dslay04 said:
Jag isn't doing it with the RS cars which are equivalent to the V's. The F type R is like Cadillac 's Vsport w/ a bit more kick.

I meant adding AWD to boost sales. Jaguar used to be RWD only, but then they added AWD. Sales have increased since.

dslay04

· #9 · Jan 14, 2015

Envoy4Life said:
I meant adding AWD to boost sales. Jaguar used to be RWD only, but then they added AWD. Sales have increased since.

V's and M's sales are tiny compared to the Sport models. Yea it increases sales, but for a brand that says they are the Best Driving Machines, it damages the brand

sfbreh

· #10 · Jan 14, 2015

No i8M is no news. X3 and X4Ms are pretty much givens. Optional AWD is really the way to go for both M and V.

bballr4567

· #11 · Jan 14, 2015

Are you REALLY using the amazing case of Jaguar to root for AWD again? Fail boat!!!! All aboard!!!

Sorry, when you add AWD to get rid of understeer then what's the point? Might as well make it a FWD car. How about balance the car so that the understeer shows you the limit while avoiding snap oversteer. Just horrible from the Ultimate Driving Machine to try and get rid of understeer! That's the best way to destroy a RWD car.

And really who the hell drives a M or V during winter? The folks who can truly afford these cars brand new just drive their SUV or truck and leave the 600HP cars parked for winter.

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sfbreh

· #12 · Jan 14, 2015

Envoy4Life said:
AWD reduces understeer/oversteer, can help you get through snowy conditions, and generates extra money for the company. And besides, don't make it standard. Have it as an option.

What's not to like?

Uhhhh... how does this magical technology reduce both? AWD makes a car more likely to understeer. It exacerbates understeer in FWD cars and numbs agility in RWD cars.

dslay04 said:
Jag isn't doing it with the RS cars which are equivalent to the V's. The F type R is like Cadillac 's Vsport w/ a bit more kick.

Rs are basically Vs/AMGs/Ms, I think.

Envoy4Life

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 14, 2015

bballr4567 said:
Are you REALLY using the amazing case of Jaguar to root for AWD again? Fail boat!!!! All aboard!!!

Sorry, when you add AWD to get rid of understeer then what's the point? Might as well make it a FWD car. How about balance the car so that the understeer shows you the limit while avoiding snap oversteer. Just horrible from the Ultimate Driving Machine to try and get rid of understeer! That's the best way to destroy a RWD car.

And really who the hell drives a M or V during winter? The folks who can truly afford these cars brand new just drive their SUV or truck and leave the 600HP cars parked for winter.

Puh-leeze. You couldn't even formulate a proper rebuttal last time. And once again, I have to state that I'm going to believe something that came straight from the horse's mouth (Jaguar) before I believe you.

I just don't understand why people get so uptight when I (or others) say we want an AWD option on a certain car. Once again, an OPTION.

It generates the company more money, broadens the appeal of the car, and will increase sales. Again, not standard, as an option.

bballr4567

· #14 · Jan 14, 2015

You add it as an option and what happens? It adds weight to those that don't want that option.

I'm sorry, I just don't see what the hell Jaguar has to do with Cadillac. Jaguar improved less than 300 units YOY. Once again, you fail boat AWD guys and gals fail to see that Cadillac HAS AWD AS AN OPTION ON 97% OF ITS LINE UP.

Leave the damn amazing performance cars alone. The V is the ONLY sub-brand at GM that has great focus. It's second only to Corvette in my mind.

So puhleeze can we drop the crap about Cadillac adding AWD to its amazing sports vehicles.

Serpens

· #15 · Jan 14, 2015

dslay04 said:
AWD makes handling unpredictable on a track. Snow tires are a much better solution for the snow than AWD, see jalopnik.com. You have the M performance models for the additional money.

Actually AWD makes cars quite boring on the track. You can see it repeated multiple of times in Car and Driver's Lightning Lap for example- they mentioned the CLA45 AMG was super easy to pilot due to the AWD but kinda boring. Also snow tires are a great solution for snow...and the snow tire + AWD combo is the best one. This isn't an either/or situation and the market has shown its preference.

dslay04 said:
Jag isn't doing it with the RS cars which are equivalent to the V's. The F type R is like Cadillac 's Vsport w/ a bit more kick.

Not really. The RS is more like Mercedes AMG-S models and is typically very low-volume. The R is one step above what Vsport represents.

Reactions: 1

Amphibian

· #16 · Jan 14, 2015

Cadillac should certainly offer AWD as an option. AMG has had success doing it and BMW has been somewhat late to respond. I think Bentley's had some particularly good success in the northern US and Canada with the Continental for people that use them as a winter car (or all season daily driver). Audi's had this advantage by virtue of their disadvantage in using FWD-based platforms for high perfomance vehicles. Even if we ignore all of that, we have to look no further than Porsche and years of using AWD on high-power cars; no one calls the driving experience of a Turbo/Turbo S anything dull. The generic same-old look, yes, but not the way they drive. And Porsche has been committed to it on not just the Carrera, but also the Panamera; the Cayenne and Macan are a given.

AWD on increasingly exotic and powerful vehicles has become commonplace, from both Maserati sedans to the Ferrari FF to the 918 to the GT-R or Lamborghinis from years of Audi ownership. I even view the ownership benefit as a bonus. When it comes to putting the insane power down to the ground that we're seeing in cars today, AWD has its benefits. Not as oversteer happy, but faster. So in reality I would have had no issue with the CTS-V going AWD only so long as it was a dedicated performance AWD system. On the ATS-V it's less necessary, but once we get to the absurd 600+ horsepower club.....

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sfbreh

· #17 · Jan 14, 2015

Serpens said:
Actually AWD makes cars quite boring on the track. You can see it repeated multiple of times in Car and Driver's Lightning Lap for example- they mentioned the CLA45 AMG was super easy to pilot due to the AWD but kinda boring. Also snow tires are a great solution for snow...and the snow tire + AWD combo is the best one. This isn't an either/or situation and the market has shown its preference.

Yes. If anything, AWD makes a car "more predictable" on a track. You'll push, slide, hook up on the front wheels and the back end will kick out, but you're already gripping and pulling up front, and you can just accelerate out of it.

RWD requires some thought and movement. AWD is a less skillful system. More or less idiotproof, but nothing is jerkproof.

paul8488

· #18 · Jan 14, 2015

Serpens said:
Also snow tires are a great solution for snow...and the snow tire + AWD combo is the best one.

Yup! If snow tires = good and AWD = good, then snow tires + AWD = goodest.

Give me an excellent driver and a RWD with slick tires over a bad driver and an AWD with new snow tires all winter long. But for the average driver, AWD is simply an undeniable advantage in winter.

mgescuro

· #19 · Jan 14, 2015

Envoy4Life said:
And that's one more of Cadillac's competitors planning to add an AWD option on their high performance cars. BMW is going to join Mercedes-Benz and Audi in offering AWD on said high performance cars.

Your move, Cadillac. If it were ever a time to borrow a page from your competitor's book, this would be the page to borrow. Future V Series cars need to offer AWD IMHO.

I always said. Audi is leading the innovation, performance, and technology charge in the luxury class. Mercedes was first to follow. BMW stuck to its guns, but it looks like they finally bit the bullet.

There should be no reason why there can't be an X1M, X3M, X4M, X5M, X6M... and even an X7M.

BMW will most likely take the same strategy as the AMG 4MATICs -- 60/40 power to the wheels.

Cadillac is behind the times. The luxury segment always seems to be 1-2 steps ahead of Cadillac.

Reactions: 1

sfbreh

· #20 · Jan 14, 2015

mgescuro said:
I always said. Audi is leading the innovation, performance, and technology charge in the luxury class. Mercedes was first to follow. BMW stuck to its guns, but it looks like they finally bit the bullet.

There should be no reason why there can't be an X1M, X3M, X4M, X5M, X6M... and even an X7M.

BMW will most likely take the same strategy as the AMG 4MATICs -- 60/40 power to the wheels.

Cadillac is behind the times. The luxury segment always seems to be 1-2 steps ahead of Cadillac.

I don't get that powersplit... why don't they pursue 50/50?

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