GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Premium Member
News Contributor
Joined
·
5,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bigger V8 for Holden's last SS
Motoring
By Marton Pettendy
Tuesday, 14 October 2014

Commodore to bow out with a bang, but 6.2-litre SS will be Holden's last rear-drive V8 sports sedan

Holden is saving its best for last. motoring.com.au can now reveal the local GM arm will bless the final, MY16 Commodore with GM's bigger, more powerful 6.2-litre LS3 V8.

The official confirmation of the engine swap is months away, but the deal is done and dusted. Holden insiders says V8 are set to comprise up to half the Commodore sold as production of the rear-drive big Aussie is wound down ahead of its cessation of local production in 2017.

Falcon's replacement has been confirmed as the new Mondeo. GM, on the other hand, is yet to decide whether to release Opel's next-generation large sedan and wagon here as the Holden Insignia in 2016 (when it becomes available from Germany), or wait until 2018 and attempt a transition between its homegrown VF II and the imported 'Commodore'.

Internally, Holden also has concerns about how its traditional customer base will embrace the European Insignia, a front- and all-wheel drive four- and six-cylinder model that will likely also replace the unloved Malibu sedan.

Holden insiders indicated to motoring.com.au at last week's MY15 Commodore launch that GM has no plans to produce a replacement for the Commodore's US export twin, the Chevy SS. This is despite the fact the SS currently forms the basis of Chevrolet's NASCAR program in North America.

With the 'Zeta legacy' plan to continue producing V8 versions of the current Commodore (badged simply as the Holden SS) in Adelaide beyond 2017 now officially axed, it seems the same corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) issues that prevented the Chevy SS being shipped to the US in sustainable numbers will also prevent GM from developing a replacement.

Asked why he believes an unprecedented 37 per cent of Commodore customers bought a V8 this year, GM Holden sales director Peter Keley said: "It's not V8 or rear-wheel drive per se, it's what the vehicle delivers as a package."

In what will be a fitting swansong for the Commodore, the final, MY16 model will feature GM's 6.2-litre LS3 V8 — effectively offering HSV performance in its own SS.

*Full Article at Link
 

·
Premium Member
News Contributor
Joined
·
5,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I really hope this is incorrect.
With the 'Zeta legacy' plan to continue producing V8 versions of the current Commodore (badged simply as the Holden SS) in Adelaide beyond 2017 now officially axed, it seems the same corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) issues that prevented the Chevy SS being shipped to the US in sustainable numbers will also prevent GM from developing a replacement.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,595 Posts
Bigger V8 for Holden's last SS
Motoring
By Marton Pettendy
Tuesday, 14 October 2014

Commodore to bow out with a bang, but 6.2-litre SS will be Holden's last rear-drive V8 sports sedan

Holden is saving its best for last. motoring.com.au can now reveal the local GM arm will bless the final, MY16 Commodore with GM's bigger, more powerful 6.2-litre LS3 V8.

The official confirmation of the engine swap is months away, but the deal is done and dusted. Holden insiders says V8 are set to comprise up to half the Commodore sold as production of the rear-drive big Aussie is wound down ahead of its cessation of local production in 2017.

Falcon's replacement has been confirmed as the new Mondeo. GM, on the other hand, is yet to decide whether to release Opel's next-generation large sedan and wagon here as the Holden Insignia in 2016 (when it becomes available from Germany), or wait until 2018 and attempt a transition between its homegrown VF II and the imported 'Commodore'.

Internally, Holden also has concerns about how its traditional customer base will embrace the European Insignia, a front- and all-wheel drive four- and six-cylinder model that will likely also replace the unloved Malibu sedan.

Holden insiders indicated to motoring.com.au at last week's MY15 Commodore launch that GM has no plans to produce a replacement for the Commodore's US export twin, the Chevy SS. This is despite the fact the SS currently forms the basis of Chevrolet's NASCAR program in North America.

With the 'Zeta legacy' plan to continue producing V8 versions of the current Commodore (badged simply as the Holden SS) in Adelaide beyond 2017 now officially axed, it seems the same corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) issues that prevented the Chevy SS being shipped to the US in sustainable numbers will also prevent GM from developing a replacement. (That plus they couldn't do it for anything approaching the price.)

Asked why he believes an unprecedented 37 per cent of Commodore customers bought a V8 this year, GM Holden sales director Peter Keley said: "It's not V8 or rear-wheel drive per se, it's what the vehicle delivers as a package."

In what will be a fitting swansong for the Commodore, the final, MY16 model will feature GM's 6.2-litre LS3 V8 — effectively offering HSV performance in its own SS.

*Full Article at Link
Maybe I might pick up a '16 SS-V Redline just for Shuts'n'giggles. I was thinking Clubby and that might stil get the nod, but I am more of a Holden than HSV fan. After that - good luck convincing people 'RWD=good, FWD=better'.

As for the 'next' SS - GM will sell you a Corvette (while it lasts), expensive Cadillac, Camaro in RWD (while it lasts). GM US's last best opportunity for 'affordable' RWD is gone with Holden closing. And they stymied that effort pretty thoroughly by making it a loaded top dollar effort - don't want to interfere with the success of the new Fleet Queen, er I mean Impala.

GM is pushing Epsilon like it's crack. Unfortunately, it is nowhere near that stimulating.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,269 Posts
I got excited for a minute and thought the LT-1 was going in... oh well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sfbreh

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,595 Posts
Does the commodore not have the ls3 now? I'm confused.
Cars badged Holden get the L98 6.0 with 270kw or 360hp for manuals or the AFM L76 with 260Kw or 350hp. Which mean basically the Commodore hasn't moved in powertrain since the VZ Series II in 2005. Yes AFM got added to autos in 2010, and they've diddled with engine management to improve emissions/economy but technically no. Which is a shame, because they were playing with DI protos in 2006Holden always has a default ULP tune, HSV PULP so Holdens do a little better on PULP. Want another reason why big cars are stagnant? Apart from the blown Miami motor in the FPVs there's no new powertrain tech in the Commodore, Falcon or Aurion - the three cars are using the same engines as introduced (except the EB2.0 Falcon, which no-one wants).

HSV badged cars got the LS2 in 2006 and the LS3 in 2008. So again, power has gone up here and there with less restrictive exhaust and engine mapping - the 340Kw is 455hp which is actually ECE rating so SAE it's probably 480 at the crank.



anual
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,094 Posts
Peter keley is on crack.... V8 rwd is exactly what commodore is. Nothing will effectively be able to replace commodore because it's euro looking with US muscle. That's what commodore is.
This is Holden's official line now. What else are they going to say? "OMG, we're doomed"?

Within 24 months Holden will present you with FWD RHD Buick Regal and say "this is what our customers wanted. BTW, RWD V8 cars are old fashioned".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
42 Posts
Cars badged Holden get the L98 6.0 with 270kw or 360hp for manuals or the AFM L76 with 260Kw or 350hp. Which mean basically the Commodore hasn't moved in powertrain since the VZ Series II in 2005. Yes AFM got added to autos in 2010, and they've diddled with engine management to improve emissions/economy but technically no. Which is a shame, because they were playing with DI protos in 2006Holden always has a default ULP tune, HSV PULP so Holdens do a little better on PULP. Want another reason why big cars are stagnant? Apart from the blown Miami motor in the FPVs there's no new powertrain tech in the Commodore, Falcon or Aurion - the three cars are using the same engines as introduced (except the EB2.0 Falcon, which no-one wants).

HSV badged cars got the LS2 in 2006 and the LS3 in 2008. So again, power has gone up here and there with less restrictive exhaust and engine mapping - the 340Kw is 455hp which is actually ECE rating so SAE it's probably 480 at the crank.



anual
L98 wow, I haven't heard of a GM V8 being referred to as an L98 since the last of the first gen Chevy small blocks to go into the Corvette (and later the Camaro and Firebird Formula and Trans Am). It was a 350 cid (5.7L) V8 made from 1985 to 1992.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
Cars badged Holden get the L98 6.0 with 270kw or 360hp for manuals or the AFM L76 with 260Kw or 350hp.
L98/L76 haven't been used for years. IIRC, MY12 VE got the L77 6.0 in both 6A & 6M guise & was carried over on the VF with the only changes being E85 sensors, electric steering & consequent ~550rpm idle. I had hoped for the L99 from the Camaro SS with 6L80 for the VF's intro. Maybe that's what they'll use given it's the LS3 short block with DOD & VVT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,415 Posts
" GM, on the other hand, is yet to decide whether to release Opel's next-generation large sedan and wagon here as the Holden Insignia in 2016 (when it becomes available from Germany), or wait until 2018 and attempt a transition between its homegrown VF II and the imported 'Commodore'.
The future of the next Commodore isn't fully written yet.....this much is true.

Keeping the current Cruze on sale until 2017 will only continue that slide in Australia's largest sales segment, but replacing the locally built model before then with the second-generation Cruze already on sale in China has big ramifications for GM's South Australian plant.
Editorial fluff.....Cruze will continue as long as people are buying enough to keep the line operating.

Internally, Holden also has concerns about how its traditional customer base will embrace the European Insignia, a front- and all-wheel drive four- and six-cylinder model that will likely also replace the unloved Malibu sedan
Holden itself is deciding what cars will be in it's own lineup, I doubt this part about "internal concerns" unless they are talking about normal dissention that's behind any decision in any automobile company (or any company period).

With the 'Zeta legacy' plan to continue producing V8 versions of the current Commodore (badged simply as the Holden SS) in Adelaide beyond 2017 now officially axed, it seems the same corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) issues that prevented the Chevy SS being shipped to the US in sustainable numbers will also prevent GM from developing a replacement.
Calling "BS" on this 100%.

US CAFE numbers are based on combined sales volume of a model. A V8 powered SS sedan selling up to 10,000 per year (it actually is slated to sell only a couple thousand annually in reality) is nothing next to the 200,000 plus Malibus sold each year, and ditto other models. Consider that V8 Camaros that will be in showrooms next year will continue through at least 2020, and almost certainly will continue as long as people buy them. Plus, the fact that any replacement sedan not only would be lighter and likely smaller, but the majority sold would be either V6 or 4 cylinder powered.

By no means is anything regarding Holden's future products certain. Nor can anyone say with any certainty at this point what Holden's lineup will consist of since Holden will be essentially cherrypicking vehicles from GM's global portfolio. Logic dictates that a FWD family sedan will be in the mix, since that's what's selling well. Also a no brainer is the next Cruze. The next Camaro will be RHD protected, so it's highly likely it'll be sold in Australia as well. Smaller subcompacts will continue. But what we DON'T yet know is what Holden will get of NEW vehicles in the pipeline....let alone if those vehicles in the pipeline will get the final go-ahead (products can still be killed 18 months before introduction).

There's going to be speculation, that's how the internet and enthusiast sites work. There's going to be rumors started that once repeated numerous times will take on the air of fact. But the bottom line is that Holden is STILL putting together it's post 2016 portfolio (keep in mind, we're still in 2014!). Plenty of time to greenlight vehicles that may wind up being chosen to replace Commodore, or have development shelved and instead go with a more conservative choice.

We'll know more within the next 6 months during the auto show season which is the period of time where car companies and their representatives have the most exposure to the press, and tend to make their biggest announcements or at the very least, answer the most pressing questions we have.

Best bet? Keep your fingers crossed, and stay tuned. :)

L98 wow, I haven't heard of a GM V8 being referred to as an L98 since the last of the first gen Chevy small blocks to go into the Corvette (and later the Camaro and Firebird Formula and Trans Am). It was a 350 cid (5.7L) V8 made from 1985 to 1992.

...and LT1 was an engine that no one had heard of since the early 70s until 1993 till it died in 1998, and it's back as a designation today.

GM has frequently recycles it's engine codes. This is nothing new.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
Maybe I might pick up a '16 SS-V Redline just for Shuts'n'giggles. I was thinking Clubby and that might stil get the nod, but I am more of a Holden than HSV fan. After that - good luck convincing people 'RWD=good, FWD=better'.

As for the 'next' SS - GM will sell you a Corvette (while it lasts), expensive Cadillac, Camaro in RWD (while it lasts). GM US's last best opportunity for 'affordable' RWD is gone with Holden closing. And they stymied that effort pretty thoroughly by making it a loaded top dollar effort - don't want to interfere with the success of the new Fleet Queen, er I mean Impala.

GM is pushing Epsilon like it's crack. Unfortunately, it is nowhere near that stimulating.....
'Sactly what I've been thinking.

I predicted a while ago there would be a bigger banger in the wind down, according to this I might be right. Was a bit of a no-brainer...

I'm curious what the final output will be. I suspect somewhere in the 300-310 KW range, but with the XR8 claiming 335KW Holden might up the ante.

I notice the new clubby is claiming 340KW, what you used to get out of the SV enhanced. I wonder what HSV is going to do, there seems to be no mention of the enhanced in the latest discussion.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,595 Posts
The future of the next Commodore isn't fully written yet.....this much is true.



Editorial fluff.....Cruze will continue as long as people are buying enough to keep the line operating.



Holden itself is deciding what cars will be in it's own lineup, I doubt this part about "internal concerns" unless they are talking about normal dissention that's behind any decision in any automobile company (or any company period).



Calling "BS" on this 100%.

US CAFE numbers are based on combined sales volume of a model. A V8 powered SS sedan selling up to 10,000 per year (it actually is slated to sell only a couple thousand annually in reality) is nothing next to the 200,000 plus Malibus sold each year, and ditto other models. Consider that V8 Camaros that will be in showrooms next year will continue through at least 2020, and almost certainly will continue as long as people buy them. Plus, the fact that any replacement sedan not only would be lighter and likely smaller, but the majority sold would be either V6 or 4 cylinder powered.

By no means is anything regarding Holden's future products certain. Nor can anyone say with any certainty at this point what Holden's lineup will consist of since Holden will be essentially cherrypicking vehicles from GM's global portfolio. Logic dictates that a FWD family sedan will be in the mix, since that's what's selling well. Also a no brainer is the next Cruze. The next Camaro will be RHD protected, so it's highly likely it'll be sold in Australia as well. Smaller subcompacts will continue. But what we DON'T yet know is what Holden will get of NEW vehicles in the pipeline....let alone if those vehicles in the pipeline will get the final go-ahead (products can still be killed 18 months before introduction).

There's going to be speculation, that's how the internet and enthusiast sites work. There's going to be rumors started that once repeated numerous times will take on the air of fact. But the bottom line is that Holden is STILL putting together it's post 2016 portfolio (keep in mind, we're still in 2014!). Plenty of time to greenlight vehicles that may wind up being chosen to replace Commodore, or have development shelved and instead go with a more conservative choice.

We'll know more within the next 6 months during the auto show season which is the period of time where car companies and their representatives have the most exposure to the press, and tend to make their biggest announcements or at the very least, answer the most pressing questions we have.

Best bet? Keep your fingers crossed, and stay tuned. :)



...and LT1 was an engine that no one had heard of since the early 70s until 1993 till it died in 1998, and it's back as a designation today.

GM has frequently recycles it's engine codes. This is nothing new.
With respect - it's by no means certain Holden will still be making cars in 2016 even - so they better have a new model sorted by now. Cruze current gen was due for replacement next year - sales are sliding away, virtually halved in little more than 12 months. It's been on sale with unchanged sheetmetal for 8 years - in that time the Mazda 3 has been refreshed twice and is on sale for a lower price, driveaway than the retail price for the base Cruze, and it's an open secret we are getting the Astra to replace it. The only problem for GM is, VW is selling Golfs for less than the Opel Astra sold for a year ago. That caused Opel to pack up shop - so how it is going to work as a Holden is anyone's guess.

'Cherrypicking' - sort of. More like, seeing which car they can afford to import to sell at less than $40K or more realistically $35K with a dollar expected to be down 40% from when Opel was last bought in - bearing in mind Australian-made Camrys on winddown start at less than $30K, driveaway (which means $25K retail). Insignia from Europe, again - pretty hard to get it landed with any sort of decent content for below $35K - last one started at $39K. Interestingly, VW announced recently moves to 'take on' the Camry aggressively pricing the Passat that means an established and well-regarded competitor that's a known value is going to produce a challenging price point for Holden for an imported Euro car. This, is a segment shrinking more than large cars - which the Commodore owns with 72% of sales. And with Ford introducing a new segment competitor or at least a new Mundano also coming from Germany. My tip is the 'Commodore' will end up fighting for scraps with the Mondeo and things like the Skoda. Not even challenging the Mazda 6 which is currently selling 6000 a year or 30% of the Camry. Unless GM wants to give 'em away.

Someone really hated Gerry Dorizas to post him to this South Pacific Titanic.....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,595 Posts
L98/L76 haven't been used for years. IIRC, MY12 VE got the L77 6.0 in both 6A & 6M guise & was carried over on the VF with the only changes being E85 sensors, electric steering & consequent ~550rpm idle. I had hoped for the L99 from the Camaro SS with 6L80 for the VF's intro. Maybe that's what they'll use given it's the LS3 short block with DOD & VVT.
This could be true but it's quibbling. They're both the lower-spec ULP-enabled Gen IV motors and not the premium-fuel performance spec LS3 which until new has been HSV's province. While they may have different designations/fuel spec they're effectively the same engines as previously with the same power ratings since VE Series II. The latest models do feel different to drive but not that much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
449 Posts
It will be interesting watching them try to shut down manufacturing, when at the same time there is a whole lot of blokes organising to buy a " last of the V8's " commie or ute just before its all over ( me included ), I know a lot of people planning to do this.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top