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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I don't want to start a an argument if the Big Three bailout is fair or correct. I do want to know if I'm obligated to "Buy American" anymore?
My tax dollars have been sent to the Big Three for a low rate at a very high risk. I personally would not give them a loan, but my government gave them my tax dollars anyways. Furthermore, I have removed all my money from GMAC Demand Notes in fear they may still impload.
Am I still obligated to buy an American car or am I now off the hook? Do I owe anything it to the domestic auto manufacturer or do they now owe me? Did the domestic auto industry do their part to build more fuel efficient cars? Is the welfare of the domestic auto worker my responsibility or is it the manufacturers?
I really don't want your answer to these questions, but I do want to know if bailing out the Big Three will do more damage than good? If the American consumer becomes bitter and contempt of our government bailout actions, This could be bad news for the domestic auto industries.
Why is it my duty to buy an American car if my government loaned them money against my will? Maybe I'm going to buy a foreign car just to spite them!! Is this what the American public might start thinking? Will people start to resent domestic automotive executives as "FAT CATS" and insist on boycotting American cars? You tell me.
 

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Will people start to resent domestic automotive executives as "FAT CATS" and insist on boycotting American cars? You tell me.
That happened a long time ago. The politicians will revamp the 700 Billion dollar bailout by taking some of the garbage out of it that they should have been embarrassed to put in there in the first place and they will give the plan a very nice sounding name with BAILOUT no where to be seen. It will then pass and the American people will be mad for a week and then life as usual.
 

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I don't want to start a an argument if the Big Three bailout is fair or correct. I do want to know if I'm obligated to "Buy American" anymore?
My tax dollars have been sent to the Big Three for a low rate at a very high risk. I personally would not give them a loan, but my government gave them my tax dollars anyways. Furthermore, I have removed all my money from GMAC Demand Notes in fear they may still impload.
Am I still obligated to buy an American car or am I now off the hook? Do I owe anything it to the domestic auto manufacturer or do they now owe me? Did the domestic auto industry do their part to build more fuel efficient cars? Is the welfare of the domestic auto worker my responsibility or is it the manufacturers?
I really don't want your answer to these questions, but I do want to know if bailing out the Big Three will do more damage than good? If the American consumer becomes bitter and contempt of our government bailout actions, This could be bad news for the domestic auto industries.
Why is it my duty to buy an American car if my government loaned them money against my will? Maybe I'm going to buy a foreign car just to spite them!! Is this what the American public might start thinking? Will people start to resent domestic automotive executives as "FAT CATS" and insist on boycotting American cars? You tell me.
Do what you want. You are going to do it anyway. That's the USA way for you.
 

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I don't want to start a an argument if the Big Three bailout is fair or correct. I do want to know if I'm obligated to "Buy American" anymore?
My tax dollars have been sent to the Big Three for a low rate at a very high risk. I personally would not give them a loan, but my government gave them my tax dollars anyways. Furthermore, I have removed all my money from GMAC Demand Notes in fear they may still impload.
Am I still obligated to buy an American car or am I now off the hook? Do I owe anything it to the domestic auto manufacturer or do they now owe me? Did the domestic auto industry do their part to build more fuel efficient cars? Is the welfare of the domestic auto worker my responsibility or is it the manufacturers?
I really don't want your answer to these questions, but I do want to know if bailing out the Big Three will do more damage than good? If the American consumer becomes bitter and contempt of our government bailout actions, This could be bad news for the domestic auto industries.
Why is it my duty to buy an American car if my government loaned them money against my will? Maybe I'm going to buy a foreign car just to spite them!! Is this what the American public might start thinking? Will people start to resent domestic automotive executives as "FAT CATS" and insist on boycotting American cars? You tell me.
you never "owed" the Big 3 anything... you bought from them because you knew it was better for the country than buying a foreign car. has that changed?
 

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Personally, I think it is important to support American companies now more then ever. But that's just me--I am sure there are plenty out there that say buying a foreign car does nothing to impact our economy:rolleyes:

America needs to regain back some of its manufacturing base--and not just from foreign transplants. This idea of the US evolving into a service economy has its issues as we are now seeing!

So if the government deems it neccessary to "bail out" the American auto industry becuase too many idiots buy foreign cars since they think they are superior; then I am all for it!;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
you never "owed" the Big 3 anything... you bought from them because you knew it was better for the country than buying a foreign car. has that changed?
That's what I'm trying to find out. It's not about my opion. It's about the future attitudes of the American consumer. Is it benefical to our country to buy a domestic car when the end result is years of government debt to the taxpayer? Will it come up as a net loss to the American taxpayer?
 

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That's what I'm trying to find out. It's not about my opion. It's about the future attitudes of the American consumer. Is it benefical to our country to buy a domestic car when the end result is years of government debt to the taxpayer? Will it come up as a net loss to the American taxpayer?
Look at it this way: if the Big 3 go belly-up, hundreds of thousands of people are suddenly out of jobs (from the Big 3 and their suppliers). Those people now rely on welfare and no longer have healthcare. They can't afford to send their kids to private school anymore, so the public schools get a little more crowded. They can't afford to buy things anymore, or pay their mortgage, so the economy gets worse.

I know I'm over-simplifying, and I am certainly not an economics expert, but I think you see my point.
 

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If you are an American, your tax dollars are going to aid Ford, GM and Chrysler. Whether you want it or not, you have "skin" in the game.
Buying American means you're supporting them, and increases the likelihood of the loans getting repaid. buying foreign means the loans are less likely to be repaid, if done on a large scale. Individually, should you buy American? That's up to you. Do you want to see the loans repaid? It would collectively benefit us to buy American.
If you believe that American manufacturing is important, then it makes sense to buy American.
What is more important to you.... your own personal good, or the collective good?
We used to make shoes, clothes, furniture, steel, lumber, cars and trucks, toys, etc. Now we have lost many of those industries. If you think it's good to lose car manufacturing, buy foreign.
Years ago, people derided the statement that What's Good for General Motors is good for the USA.
Now, staring at the potential loss of several hundred thousand jobs in auto manufacturing (cars and parts), it's become clear that the statement is true.
 

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you never "owed" the Big 3 anything... you bought from them because you knew it was better for the country than buying a foreign car. has that changed?
That kind of thinking is no good. Buying a car for being "for the country" just breeds uncompetitiveness and lazyness. It's a Communist approach... buy the best and don't look at the label. Only then could the Big Three be healthy companies, lean and mean.



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In his Science Fiction novel, "Subspace Explorers", E.E. Doc Smith proposed an economic formula to control profits and bonuses, called "Enlightened Self Interest". (See wickipedia and enlightened self interest).

Doc Smith went a little further in his novels and called corporations that make too much profit, "greedy" and pretty much said the same for unions.

Under this Enlightened Self Interest, whatever you buy (a GM car) helps someone else, in this case a GM worker. That worker has enough income to buy something that your neighbor makes and in turn your neighbor buys something you make. It was in your self interest to buy GM, because you got your money back.

This country pretty much operated under this principle after WWII, until the unions got greedy and the corportions saw cheaper labor overseas. People forgot about their neighbors and we became the me generation. It's all about me.

Globalization and the "Me First" generation has destroyed the link between spending your money and it returning to you. Japan, Korea and China very seldom return the profit to you. It is their way of life to profit at your expense.

If the government bails out GM (and the others), it is in our self interest to buy GM and see our tax dollars return to the treasury. It is imperative that these loans be paid back as rapidly as Chrysler paid them back in the '80's.

Think about it this way. If you buy GM, take money out of your wallet and put it in your pants pocket. If you buy Toyota, take your money out of your wallet, put it in the toilet and flush.
 

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In his Science Fiction novel, "Subspace Explorers", E.E. Doc Smith proposed an economic formula to control profits and bonuses, called "Enlightened Self Interest". (See wickipedia and enlightened self interest).

Doc Smith went a little further in his novels and called corporations that make too much profit, "greedy" and pretty much said the same for unions.

Under this Enlightened Self Interest, whatever you buy (a GM car) helps someone else, in this case a GM worker. That worker has enough income to buy something that your neighbor makes and in turn your neighbor buys something you make. It was in your self interest to buy GM, because you got your money back.

This country pretty much operated under this principle after WWII, until the unions got greedy and the corportions saw cheaper labor overseas. People forgot about their neighbors and we became the me generation. It's all about me.

Globalization and the "Me First" generation has destroyed the link between spending your money and it returning to you. Japan, Korea and China very seldom return the profit to you. It is their way of life to profit at your expense.

If the government bails out GM (and the others), it is in our self interest to buy GM and see our tax dollars return to the treasury. It is imperative that these loans be paid back as rapidly as Chrysler paid them back in the '80's.

Think about it this way. If you buy GM, take money out of your wallet and put it in your pants pocket. If you buy Toyota, take your money out of your wallet, put it in the toilet and flush.
The point of globalization is essentially the same. Except that everyone in the world puts money in your pocket.



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The point of globalization is essentially the same. Except that everyone in the world puts money in your pocket.
In reality, it just hasn't worked out that way has it? China, Korea and Japan, along with others, have erected barriers that don't allow your money to come back to you.

Billions of our automobile dollars flow to Japan with no return. The same can be said for Korea and just wait until China begins exporting cars built with our technology, to the US. The dollar flow is one way and there is nothing enlightened about it and the only self interest is theirs.
 

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In his Science Fiction novel, "Subspace Explorers", E.E. Doc Smith proposed an economic formula to control profits and bonuses, called "Enlightened Self Interest". (See wickipedia and enlightened self interest).

Doc Smith went a little further in his novels and called corporations that make too much profit, "greedy" and pretty much said the same for unions.

Under this Enlightened Self Interest, whatever you buy (a GM car) helps someone else, in this case a GM worker. That worker has enough income to buy something that your neighbor makes and in turn your neighbor buys something you make. It was in your self interest to buy GM, because you got your money back.

This country pretty much operated under this principle after WWII, until the unions got greedy and the corportions saw cheaper labor overseas. People forgot about their neighbors and we became the me generation. It's all about me.

Globalization and the "Me First" generation has destroyed the link between spending your money and it returning to you. Japan, Korea and China very seldom return the profit to you. It is their way of life to profit at your expense.

If the government bails out GM (and the others), it is in our self interest to buy GM and see our tax dollars return to the treasury. It is imperative that these loans be paid back as rapidly as Chrysler paid them back in the '80's.


That's a good description of how people thought then. Things were done a lot differently and to all about "me" is what it all boils down to. The crazy thing is that under that system you were only doing what was best for yourself anyway. Funny how that works!
 

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In reality, it just hasn't worked out that way has it? China, Korea and Japan, along with others, have erected barriers that don't allow your money to come back to you.

Billions of our automobile dollars flow to Japan with no return. The same can be said for Korea and just wait until China begins exporting cars built with our technology, to the US. The dollar flow is one way and there is nothing enlightened about it and the only self interest is theirs.
If you want barriers look at how the US acts with its farmers... the most competitive and efficient farming system (in most respects) yet with huge subsidies as well... yet sugar costs 3 times as much in the US as anywhere else

Admittedly yes US money is flowing out of everywhere but this is due to many factors.



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I'm talking about the 25 Billion dollar bailout for the auto industry that was passed this week.
It's a loan. There's a difference. And there are conditions and GM, Ford, etc. have to apply to the government to get at the money. It's not just going to be handed over to them.

Wall Street is getting the bailout. Banks in the US seem to get bailouts every 20 years, it seems.
 

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I wouldn't categorize the 25 Billion as a "bailout" even though the Big Three is getting very short on credit.

The money is going into specific technologies and products which will reduce our dependence on foreign energy and therefore improve our national security. If this can cut our national defense budget by even 0.5%, the taxpayer comes out ahead, even if the Big 3 never pays back a dime.
 

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