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Link: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081020/ANE02/810200273/-1/RSS31&rssfeed=RSS31


Automotive News Europe - Guido Reinking - October 20, 2008 14:59 CET

When senior Volkswagen executives said the Wolfsburg-based automaker intended to overtake Toyota in global sales, profit and quality, more than a few industry watchers thought they had lost touch with reality. I was one of the skeptics.

Overtake Toyota – the industry's gold standard for productivity, quality assurance, efficiency and customer orientation – to say nothing of global profit- and sales leader? Impossible!

But look again: The top dog is losing its aura of invincibility.

In Germany, sales are off 22 percent this year. In the U.S., Toyota has been hit even harder. Its sales there collapsed 32.3 percent in September, worse even than the fall taken by sickly General Motors.

Contrary to popular perception, Toyota's dazzling growth over the past 10 years has been led by light trucks, not the gas-sipping small cars and hybrids that are so associated with its brand. Sales of its large vehicles – SUVs, crossovers, pickups and luxury Lexus sedans – have more than doubled in the past decade.

That is why the current automotive crisis is hitting Toyota harder than many other manufacturers. Its profit is projected to decline by as much as 40 percent this fiscal year, which would yield a margin of barely 6 percent. That would put it on VW's level.

There is little doubt that Toyota will remain the global sales leader for some years to come. But there is danger in that success. Becoming No. 1 demands different qualities than staying No. 1. Can the company do both?

In that sense, it may be fortunate for Toyota that Volkswagen has vowed to overtake it. That's because Toyota, without meaningful competition, may have stopped striving for perfection.
 

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This is showing my lack of love for them, but - I'm really sorry to hear that ---- NOT! It's about time their years of convincing people they could do no wrong jumped up to bite them in the @$$
 

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I'm going to say what I have said many times on these forums. Toyota still makes quality cars, but the 'value' isn't there anymore. 10, 15, and 20 years ago, Toyota made quality cars, but they were often priced below, or at worse case, at the same levels as many of their competitors (I'm sure someone can look up exceptions, but that is what I found for the most part). However, I do not see the value in Toyota that muc now. A V6 RAV4 cost almost $30,000? A V6 Camry is hard to find for under $25,000? We all know that GM and Ford offer more cash rebates than the imports, and the domestics resale values are lower, but I am no longer considering Toyota's simply because of the purchase price. To me, the value is in the domestics and the Korean imports (Hyundai and Kia), and no longer with Toyota.
 

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Also Toyota has had several embarrassing quality control debacles in recent years lets not forget the inferior cargo beds and the broken camshafts on the new tundra and the infamous engine sludge incident
 

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Also Toyota has had several embarrassing quality control debacles in recent years lets not forget the inferior cargo beds and the broken camshafts on the new tundra and the infamous engine sludge incident
I think you hit the nail on the head. toyota is no longer the quality King and people are starting to take note of it.
 

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I'm going to say what I have said many times on these forums. Toyota still makes quality cars, but the 'value' isn't there anymore. 10, 15, and 20 years ago, Toyota made quality cars, but they were often priced below, or at worse case, at the same levels as many of their competitors (I'm sure someone can look up exceptions, but that is what I found for the most part). However, I do not see the value in Toyota that muc now. A V6 RAV4 cost almost $30,000? A V6 Camry is hard to find for under $25,000? We all know that GM and Ford offer more cash rebates than the imports, and the domestics resale values are lower, but I am no longer considering Toyota's simply because of the purchase price. To me, the value is in the domestics and the Korean imports (Hyundai and Kia), and no longer with Toyota.
I bought my Camry used...but the original owner still had the original window sticker. It is a 15 year old 1993 Camry 4cyl LE sedan with power windows, mirrors, locks and cruise control....that's about. The 1993 MSRP was $19,000! I'd say Toyota has been slightly overpriced compared to the competition for some time. My car is doing pretty good though at 177k miles.

VW needs to work on their quality too....or a the very least the perception of quality. The last 4 or 5 people I know who had new VW's hated the problems with their cars.
 

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This is welcome news. It is interesting that as GM has made steady (if slow) moves to get back into the sedan segment, Toyota has introduced nothing but Trucks/SUVs over the past several years. I have been saying for years that they are becoming GM in many ways - growing their sales base with Trucks/SUVs worked to help them take the sales crown from GM - but it is also hurting as they have taken a beating in year over year sales numbers.
 

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And lets not forget that VW is worth more then toyota. VW is around 127billion and toyota is around 110 billion. It looks like vw won first battle. Now two more to go and toyota will be crushed.
 

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My 20.T Passat's transmission killed itself because it kept throwing itself out of gear. Often times it would get stuck halfway in the gate and then the syncros killed themselves. This was at 2800 miles or so.

Also the throttle percentage versus power is the most inconsistant of any car I've ever driven. Discarding boost as a variable. Sometimes you'd have to rev the car to like 2000rpm so it wouldn't stall out from a stop, and other times 1300 rpm would be fine, Also othertime light throttle would bring you to that 2000 rpm, only to realize the throttle angle is actually quite low and the car has no power once the load is applied to it.

With the AC on, often times you'd have to go WOT for 2-3.5 seconds just to get enough power to bring it from 1500 rpm to 2800 or so, so you can shift again coming from a stop. Other times you don't.

There is no consistancy with that car. The interior and suspension is good. My rubberized coating on the radio are bubbling off the buttons. I have bubbles in my drives side B pillar blackouts that come and go... The car gets very good gas mileage.

At times it feels like a slug, because the turbo is TINY, and other times the car will scare/surprise me, because 30 foot/lbs of torque comes from nowhere, and I'm not talking about turbo lag, I'm talking about upper RPMS where the boost is already tappering, this happen last night due to the cold weather, O2 is more dense so the turbo can actually ingest a reasonable amount of o2.
 

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This makes me feel so warm and happy inside,:zippy:
Some people actually have taste and buy a car for substance and not because their reputation and their marketing BS. When compared to the Mazda6, Chevy Malibu, Honda Accord.......the Camry is about as fun to use as a microwave. Heck, even the Hyundai Sonata has better fuel economy and styling.
 

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It's about time. Toyota doesn't seem the same in terms of quality. That was at a time when the other auto makers were not up to par in the quality aspect. But now with Ford and GM being just as up there with them, they don't seem all high and mighty anymore. Nissan's quality increased, so did Mazda's. Honda's is still high, just someone in their design department needs to be fired.
 

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I'm going to say what I have said many times on these forums. Toyota still makes quality cars, but the 'value' isn't there anymore. 10, 15, and 20 years ago, Toyota made quality cars, but they were often priced below, or at worse case, at the same levels as many of their competitors (I'm sure someone can look up exceptions, but that is what I found for the most part). However, I do not see the value in Toyota that muc now. A V6 RAV4 cost almost $30,000? A V6 Camry is hard to find for under $25,000? We all know that GM and Ford offer more cash rebates than the imports, and the domestics resale values are lower, but I am no longer considering Toyota's simply because of the purchase price. To me, the value is in the domestics and the Korean imports (Hyundai and Kia), and no longer with Toyota.
In Canada, Toyota pricing is pretty reasonable.... when considering MSRP. In 2002, the Matrix XR had an MSRP $1500 less than a Vibe. When we bought the Vibe, the 0% financing, $1000 promotion and GM points made it $4700 cheaper than a Matrix XR (after factoring in the "deal" the Toyota salesman was offering). No contest.

Now as for resale value, Toyota blows the domestics out of the water for *most* of the product they sell. My opinion is that their value shows in how well *most* of their product performs over the long run.
 

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Now as for resale value, Toyota blows the domestics out of the water for *most* of the product they sell. My opinion is that their value shows in how well *most* of their product performs over the long run.
At one time Oldsmobile had one of the highest resale values out there. It was the same time they where making some of the lowest quality cars in their history. Perception more than actual product is what drives resale value.

Case in point 2: Chevrolet Suburban. It has taken a dive in regards to resale value, but after 50 years is still proving to be one of the most reliable, hard working vehicles out there.

Case in point 3: VWs. Known for quality issues and high resale value.
 

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At one time Oldsmobile had one of the highest resale values out there. It was the same time they where making some of the lowest quality cars in their history. Perception more than actual product is what drives resale value.

Case in point 2: Chevrolet Suburban. It has taken a dive in regards to resale value, but after 50 years is still proving to be one of the most reliable, hard working vehicles out there.

Case in point 3: VWs. Known for quality issues and high resale value.
All excellent points:yup:
 
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