GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,172 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Where are all the mustang guys who whined ad nauseam about how heavy the 5th camaro ss was compared to the ford gt now?

Seems like car to car the mustang gt is all of 72 lbs lighter in its latest generation...


I never thought it mattered much either way but man did those mustang guys go nuts with the overweight pig slurs....

72 pounds is the difference in this latest generation..

Is weight not a big deal any more? Now that your beloved mustang weighs about the same?

I dig the new mustang gt....just wonder how the crow tastes.... (Kidding)
 
  • Like
Reactions: jzchev28

·
Banned
Joined
·
228 Posts
Base V8 coupes with manual transmissions are 3705 –vs- 3908. That’s a 203 lb delta. The article even mentioned they compared a premium GT which weighs more. So as a Ford fan, I see no crow to be eaten. What I do see, is an opportunity for the Mustang to be quicker yet, if someone would apply an apples to apples comparison.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,600 Posts
Base V8 coupes with manual transmissions are 3705 –vs- 3908. That’s a 203 lb delta. The article even mentioned they compared a premium GT which weighs more. So as a Ford fan, I see no crow to be eaten. What I do see, is an opportunity for the Mustang to be quicker yet, if someone would apply an apples to apples comparison.
Any word on when the GT350 will make an appearance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,418 Posts
Base V8 coupes with manual transmissions are 3705 –vs- 3908. That’s a 203 lb delta. The article even mentioned they compared a premium GT which weighs more. So as a Ford fan, I see no crow to be eaten. What I do see, is an opportunity for the Mustang to be quicker yet, if someone would apply an apples to apples comparison.
The bigger brakes and other bits on the Track Pack add more weight too...much of which is standard on the SS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,193 Posts
The debate has never really been about weight or looks or horsepower or fuel economy or anything other than that Mustang-lovers will always love Mustangs and Camaro-lovers will always love Camaros. They each latch onto whatever advantage (perceived or real) that one has over the other and they flaunt it. Buy which ever one you want and enjoy the hell out of it. I really don't care if you like the new and beautiful Mustang or the bloated and ugly Camaro. It makes no difference to me. I'm on the fence about the two. If you prefer the original pony car over the mere copycat, that's fine with me. If you aren't impressed that it takes only 4.9L to create 435HP but it takes a whopping 6.2L for Chevy to eke out a measly 426HP that's your choice and I respect it. Can't we all just get along??
;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,178 Posts
The reaction on Mustang6G is like the watching the 2003 Cubs. Some are cancelling orders. Will Ford ever be able to catch up without making an Alpha equivalent? Even if they start now, S550 has the deck stacked against it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
The reaction on Mustang6G is like the watching the 2003 Cubs. Some are cancelling orders. Will Ford ever be able to catch up without making an Alpha equivalent? Even if they start now, S550 has the deck stacked against it.
I looked up that site and found a 20 page thread on the recent 1LE vs GTPP comparo, it's been pretty interesting reading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,578 Posts
Where are all the mustang guys who whined ad nauseam about how heavy the 5th camaro ss was compared to the ford gt now?
Seems like car to car the mustang gt is all of 72 lbs lighter in its latest generation...
I never thought it mattered much either way but man did those mustang guys go nuts with the overweight pig slurs....
72 pounds is the difference in this latest generation..
Is weight not a big deal any more? Now that your beloved mustang weighs about the same?
I dig the new mustang gt....just wonder how the crow tastes.... (Kidding)
It tastes .....like chicken! No, No. Make that Bacon!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,064 Posts
Base V8 coupes with manual transmissions are 3705 –vs- 3908. That’s a 203 lb delta. The article even mentioned they compared a premium GT which weighs more. So as a Ford fan, I see no crow to be eaten. What I do see, is an opportunity for the Mustang to be quicker yet, if someone would apply an apples to apples comparison.
Define apples-to-apples, in this case.

First of all, the 2SS only weighs about 30lbs more than the 1SS, so 'loaded' vs 'not loaded' won't make too much of a difference in model weights. The 1LE is around 3860lbs as well. Cost, yes, that would be much closer, but removing the performance pack options from these two cars, $6k is a significant difference. The same style of upgrades were performed on each car (springs, sway bars, monotube shocks, advanced cooling, etc), but it seems as though GM did a much better job of selecting parts and specs, as the 1LE package is a significant upgrade over the regular SS, where the FRPP is a decent upgrade over the regular GT.

Second, the base weight doesn't include the optional performance equipment, like the larger brakes, heavier shocks, heavier sway bar, strut bar, added coolers, etc. 100lbs isn't going to net the Mustang 1.5 seconds on a 1:23 lap. Similar tires will help (this is a 'track package', after all). This definitely leaves room for a 'BOSS' model, but it will have to be much, much faster than a stock GT to justify the price difference to a 1LE.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,578 Posts
I think people are going overboard on the weight loss thing. GM has been reducing mass because their cars and trucks were grossly overweight, which isn't true for alpha products, and going forward many of their vehicles.
In the Mustang/Camaro class, the cars are near the right weight, especially when people want power, style and performance. The weight is about right. If you don't want the power and performance, buy a Sonic or Spark!
 

·
Back!
Joined
·
5,366 Posts
Its amazing how all the Mustang lovers have dis-appeared for the hills
No disappearing, just not paying as much attention to a war that doesn't even rate as a skirmish anymore. Sales of both models are well off historical numbers and not just because the market has evolved. As a long time Mustang fan I'm very disappointed in the new Mustang in many ways, but then I've really been disappointed in the Mustang for quite some time so that isn't new. Does that mean I think the Camaro has won? No, in fact the Camaro is a bigger offender in many of the areas that the Mustangs lets us down than is the Mustang. The cars have gotten too big, too bland stylistically, too isolated from the driving experience, and too plain boring. Higher skidpad numbers in a Camaro that almost nobody will ever drive beyond 7/10 don't change any of that, and a faster Nurburgring time isn't what will fix either car.

When one of these two companies really starts taking this market as seriously as it deserves I'll probably start chiming in again in meaningful amounts, until such a time I'll likely not have very much to say and, IMO, both sides of the equation will continue to lose. There is no winner here for those of us who really love ponycars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
I think we all have certain curb weights to performance vehicles based on what we read and our own personal automotive experiences. When judging the 5th Gen Camaro from my ownership of 4th Gen F-bodies I felt the car was a lot heavier than it should be. However the industry has changed and the 5th Gen for example is a truly modern vehicle from all aspects over the 4th Gens and while 3350-3600 kinda fits the idea of what a 2+2 pony car weight should be but that's changed. We are asking a lot more of our cars today and want our cake for a good price and want to eat it right now. Modern stiff structures, safety features, crash worthiness and interiors done in nice materials add a lot of weight from the muscle car era and the 80-90's rebirth of the performance pony cars.

Unless we see a shift in vehicle construction like Ford has done with the aluminum 2015 F-150 it's going to be a battle against the heft. Although I am encouraged at the lowering costs of lighter high strength steel and some carbon fiber applications that may be able to make their way into pony car price points in a few years. Maybe Gen 7...
 

·
Back!
Joined
·
5,366 Posts
I'm starting to think that aluminum intensive construction, and possibly even turning the Mustang into a brand within a brand offering a couple to a few different cars, might really be the answer for Ford. As for the latter I think this is a future that may make sense for the Corvette as well, but I'm not sure Camaro fits a multi-car line strategy as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,172 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
72 pounds is seventy two pounds...

I was really just teasing ford guys on this site...(in good fun) ..so please know I think both pony cars are awesome...

Clearly the latest generation ford mustang gt track pack is faster and better performing than the previous generation mustang gt ....even if it weighs within 72 pounds of the similarly equipped camaro 1LE SS...


Like I said...all in good fun..
 

·
Back!
Joined
·
5,366 Posts
Unfortunately, this isn't really that much fun anymore, it's just plain sad. To put it bluntly, compared to what they ought to be, both cars suck.....out loud. There is a reason both companies would be thrilled with any domestic sales year that tops 100k units and it isn't because the market evolved away from cars like this.....it's because the cars evolved away from the market. Make no mistake, the Camaro and Mustang are our Commodore and Falcon, and I fear we'll find the most hardcore of the faithful on both sides continuing to cheer on their respective make as they each devolve these cars into something completely unsellable in almost any market over the next several years.....just like the Commodore and Falcon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,172 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Unfortunately, this isn't really that much fun anymore, it's just plain sad. To put it bluntly, compared to what they ought to be, both cars suck.....out loud. There is a reason both companies would be thrilled with any domestic sales year that tops 100k units and it isn't because the market evolved away from cars like this.....it's because the cars evolved away from the market. Make no mistake, the Camaro and Mustang are our Commodore and Falcon, and I fear we'll find the most hardcore of the faithful on both sides continuing to cheer on their respective make as they each devolve these cars into something completely unsellable in almost any market over the next several years.....just like the Commodore and Falcon.
Aren't you the party pooper...

The mustang and camaro as well as the challenger hellcat are at the peak of their. Respective performance attributes..

I'm sure the next gen camaro will lose a couple pounds as it moves to the alpha platform etc..

But right now these are all quite amazing performance machines...

Safety ...luxury and performance do all add weight..

Government regulations as well as buyer preferences for all the doodads."....make theses cars heavier....

That's personally why when I buy corvettes ....I tend to go with the z51 or z06 performance package and prefer the 1LT or 1LZ packages...

I think my balsa wood floorboard ls3 c6 weighs in at around 3200 lbs....but it's a two seater and doesn't nearly have as much sound deadening etc....and has less airbags and stuff..

There's no blue tooth and all that other connectivity that young people today know all about..

I'm old....so the fact I can plug my iPod (which is old school tech now too I'd imagine)into the dash and hear my song selections keeps me happy..

Consumers really want all this new fang led tech and luxury even in their sports cars and pony cars....

That stuff adds weight.,,

Rigid chassis s add big weight too....not always but often times it does...and it does make the A?..B and or C pillars bigger too,,,

That's the government roll over standards....

Add abs brakes, active handling, and all the other goodies like Independent rear suspension and again weight comes up...

What happened in Australia is a shame....although I believe usa volume with some exports will save these icons...

It will be interesting how many mustangs get sold in Europe over the next few years.

I'm hopeful it will be impressive.

Will china want mustangs and camaro ? That I have no idea...

I imagine with labor so cheap...the wealthy who buy expensive imports (taxation by the Chinese government) want four doors with a driver...

Meanwhile America allows flooding of Chinese goods into America....we get what we deserve I guess...

Maybe it ll be a sign of cool for the wealthy Chinese teenagers and twenty something's who are sons...to own an American pony car ? And worldwide sales will rise...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,178 Posts
Unfortunately, this isn't really that much fun anymore, it's just plain sad. To put it bluntly, compared to what they ought to be, both cars suck.....out loud. There is a reason both companies would be thrilled with any domestic sales year that tops 100k units and it isn't because the market evolved away from cars like this.....it's because the cars evolved away from the market. Make no mistake, the Camaro and Mustang are our Commodore and Falcon, and I fear we'll find the most hardcore of the faithful on both sides continuing to cheer on their respective make as they each devolve these cars into something completely unsellable in almost any market over the next several years.....just like the Commodore and Falcon.
I'm calling this a case of "my team isn't winning, so the whole game sucks".
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top