GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking at Autotrader recently I noticed that Luxury trim level ATS coupes come with the full front HID lighting package and 18" wheels as standard, while the Luxury sedan does not, and the sedan looks much cheaper and less premium as a result. So GM must know that the front lighting and better looking wheels is an important part of making the ATS look good and premium. Do they believe that sedan buyers don't care as much as coupe buyers that their cars look good?

It seems to me that most buyers are motivated by styling in considering a Cadillac ATS Sedan, after all the Germans offer every other attribute that the ATS offers (more or less),so why this de-emphasis on the sedan's appearance, especially as the Luxury trim unfortunately makes up about 80-85% of ATS' on the road (per my anecdotal observation) and maybe a bigger percentage of ATS sedan's available for sale on Autotrader? Really an unfathomable approach by Cadillac.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,686 Posts
or buy a BMW
as to me CADDY is to reliant on that practice VS the other premium brands that look good even on the "POV-PAC" versions
I have to agree, this notion of "driving" people into higher trim packages by making the lower trim packages look bad is just silly. I think it goes down to how people use to buy cars (and how a certain generation does it) vs how people in younger generations shop for cars. Also as the baby boomer becomes less and less relevant in the economy practices like that will perform worse and worse over time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,172 Posts
The sedan market includes rental fleets while coupes tend not to.

Saying to someone that they rent a luxury sedan goes a long way and that's why the sedan doesn't have the small items you mention that the coupe does..

Hope this lends insight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
697 Posts
Today Coupes are lifestyle choices. Two fewer doors should make a vehicle cheaper but every manufacturer's Coupe Variant costs more than there Sedan counterpart with few exceptions. The reason is because Coupes sell on style and emotion more than needs. They sacrafice practicality. Anyone who wants one wants one for the looks and the youthful/fun/sporty image it conveys despite the reduction in practicality.
Just like the CTS Coupe before it, all ATS Coupes come standard with 18" wheels. Also, the base motor (3.0L in CTS and 2.5L in ATS) are banished from the Coupes' menus. The Coupes cost more and Cadillac is nice enough to give you a little more content to justify the price increase.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Today Coupes are lifestyle choices. Two fewer doors should make a vehicle cheaper but every manufacturer's Coupe Variant costs more than there Sedan counterpart with few exceptions. The reason is because Coupes sell on style and emotion more than needs. They sacrafice practicality. Anyone who wants one wants one for the looks and the youthful/fun/sporty image it conveys despite the reduction in practicality.
Just like the CTS Coupe before it, all ATS Coupes come standard with 18" wheels. Also, the base motor (3.0L in CTS and 2.5L in ATS) are banished from the Coupes' menus. The Coupes cost more and Cadillac is nice enough to give you a little more content to justify the price increase.
Seriously, you think buying a compact luxury sedan is NOT a lifestyle choice?

Look people, luxury cars are all about lifestyle, image and bragging rights. These are NOT functional vehicles. That's why Cadillac's insipid latest ATS ads tout the ATS as a reward for having achieved something in life, not as a vehicle to convey the kids and groceries with the highest MPG! So, having 80% of your compact luxury cars on dealers lots looking like the Hertz fleet doesn't do a damn thing to help Cadillac win on any of these fronts. Look at the German luxury cars passing you on the street- just about ALL look good with premium lighting, wheels and paint. And then you see an ATS sedan and most look dowdy and cheap with their big black plastic inserts instead of LED lights and cheap 17" wheels. Makes you feels sorry for the guy who spent $40k plus on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,244 Posts
I think you missed his point because coupes are more of a passion or emotional purchase than a sedan is. There is a reason everyone charges more for coupe versions he is not making it up.

Every automaker dumbs down the base car even Benz and BMW does it you just may not have noticed it because they don't often carry or ship over many base models for the US. Having said that GM is a little worse than most with making their base cars look cheap. There is hope though because the updated ATS base model looks good without the from fogs/led pipe so now the base models wont look so cheap. The updates to the front was one of the best things they could have done for that car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,689 Posts
The starting price of the Coupe is higher, isn't it? Would that account for this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jesda

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I think you missed his point because coupes are more of a passion or emotional purchase than a sedan is. There is a reason everyone charges more for coupe versions he is not making it up.

Every automaker dumbs down the base car even Benz and BMW does it you just may not have noticed it because they don't often carry or ship over many base models for the US. Having said that GM is a little worse than most with making their base cars look cheap. There is hope though because the updated ATS base model looks good without the from fogs/led pipe so now the base models wont look so cheap. The updates to the front was one of the best things they could have done for that car.
I agree with you that the 15 MCE is much better. However I have a tough time reconciling myself with the view that buying a compact luxury coupe is a more passionte buy than a compact luxury sedan. For me it was all about passion- for the upper level ATS styling and the ATS' handling. And yes, the Germans do offer dumb down versions of their lux cars, however, since most of their cars are ordered by customers, you don't see tons of ****ty looking base models sitting on dealer lots, and because that is what the Cadillac dealer stocks, since Cadillacs are not custom ordered like the Germans, that is what some (many) buy, and I have to see that crap next to my beauty on the highway. Then GM slaps $4-$6k incentives to move the rental car wannabes because most sentient luxury buyers don't want to be associated with Hertz and Enterprise, killing my ATS' resale value, when GM spending an extra $500 would have given the dumbed down cars a premium look that may not have required all those incentives to move off the lots into the hands of retirees and secretaries looking for a great deal. But this is not about me- I want Cadillac to succeed so badly, but they just seem so stuck in their mass market mindset that is not appropriate to the luxury market. Sigh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,024 Posts
The ATS is scheduled for a refresh in the 2nd quarter of 2015, so look for many of these "upgrades"! It will also receive a redesign in the 2nd half of 2017.

Look for the latest technologies at that time, they might even reconsider V2V for the ATS also, but price point is a consideration....




Looking at Autotrader recently I noticed that Luxury trim level ATS coupes come with the full front HID lighting package and 18" wheels as standard, while the Luxury sedan does not, and the sedan looks much cheaper and less premium as a result. So GM must know that the front lighting and better looking wheels is an important part of making the ATS look good and premium. Do they believe that sedan buyers don't care as much as coupe buyers that their cars look good?

It seems to me that most buyers are motivated by styling in considering a Cadillac ATS Sedan, after all the Germans offer every other attribute that the ATS offers (more or less),so why this de-emphasis on the sedan's appearance, especially as the Luxury trim unfortunately makes up about 80-85% of ATS' on the road (per my anecdotal observation) and maybe a bigger percentage of ATS sedan's available for sale on Autotrader? Really an unfathomable approach by Cadillac.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The starting price of the Coupe is higher, isn't it? Would that account for this?
Yes my good man. The 2.0l ATS Luxury sedan starts at $40k. The 2.0l Luxury coupe starts at $42,900. But that is not the point. You cannot sell a luxury compact that looks like a base rental, when you are required to fork over $40-$45k for the privilege!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The ATS is scheduled for a refresh in the 2nd quarter of 2015, so look for many of these "upgrades"! It will also receive a redesign in the 2nd half of 2017.

Look for the latest technologies at that time, they might even reconsider V2V for the ATS also, but price point is a consideration....
Are you sure? Just six months after the 15 MCE?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,300 Posts
or buy a BMW
as to me CADDY is to reliant on that practice VS the other premium brands that look good even on the "POV-PAC" versions
I have to agree, this notion of "driving" people into higher trim packages by making the lower trim packages look bad is just silly. I think it goes down to how people use to buy cars (and how a certain generation does it) vs how people in younger generations shop for cars. Also as the baby boomer becomes less and less relevant in the economy practices like that will perform worse and worse over time.
I have to agree, this notion of "driving" people into higher trim packages by making the lower trim packages look bad is just silly. I think it goes down to how people use to buy cars (and how a certain generation does it) vs how people in younger generations shop for cars. Also as the baby boomer becomes less and less relevant in the economy practices like that will perform worse and worse over time.
Have you guys ever seen an entry level BMW 320i?

Here is where you would sit if you were being driven in the 2014




According to true car with luck on your side, you could even coming in below $29,000.00
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,945 Posts
Shouldn't the approach be provide more value at less cost or equal cost to German competitors? I believe as an underdog, Cadillac should be providing more value, even if only something simply like LED DRLs on all models, to all of its customers and potential customers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,689 Posts
Yes my good man. The 2.0l ATS Luxury sedan starts at $40k. The 2.0l Luxury coupe starts at $42,900. But that is not the point. You cannot sell a luxury compact that looks like a base rental, when you are required to fork over $40-$45k for the privilege!
A 40-45K ATS does not have the base wheels/lighting.


Seen a base C?. Look at that enormous slab of textured black plastic where some fancy lighting should be:



A4:

 
  • Like
Reactions: mchicha

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,093 Posts
320i is a pretty nice base package. You get a lot of driving enjoyment for the money.

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/01/business/la-fi-bmw-320-20140201

And yet it's without reservation that we can say: If you want a sedan in this price range, buy the 320i now. This basic Bimmer delivers beautifully on everything that matters and saves you money on everything that doesn't.

It handles and shifts with the utmost precision. Every pound in the frame feels meticulously balanced. The controls feel like extensions of your limbs.

The 320i, in short, is more fun to drive than many cars with double the horsepower selling at double the price. It obliterates most competitors in the sport sedan segment, defending the lead position the 3-series has held for decades. (There's a reason why every new competitor in the segment is called a "3-series fighter.")
Standard equipment includes automatic dual-zone climate control; a leather-wrapped steering wheel with controls for the radio, cruise control, and Bluetooth-connectable phone; and, of course, power windows, locks and mirrors. A screen pops up from the dashboard, with easy-to-use menus controlled by a circular knob on the center console, offering all sorts of infotainment options and driving data.

Four-wheel disc brakes are anti-lock with Dynamic Brake Control and Cornering Brake Control, whatever that means. Suffice it to say the car stops just fine, and brake-pedal feel was excellent during aggressive driving.

Shifting was even more intuitive with the silky six-speed manual transmission in our test car, which was paired with a perfectly weighted clutch that made rev-matching on downshifts a breeze. An eight-speed automatic is offered at no extra charge.
Back in college, I bought an E34 1990 BMW 525i sedan in green with tan leather. The odometer was pushing 236,000 miles. It was a near-base model with a base engine, air conditioning, and a five-speed manual. I had gobs of fun with it, driving all over the region while enjoying the purity of the steering, [what was left of the] suspension, and balanced chassis.

Cars like the 320i remind us of BMW's original mission, to build and sell driving machines for motorists. The base ATS, on the other hand, is harder to accept because Cadillac's reputation is for selling indulgence and excess. If a stripper ATS came with a more refined engine than the 2.5L, even if it had less power, it could do well against the 320i. It would certainly be far more competent than the Mercedes CLA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,300 Posts
320i is a pretty nice base package. You get a lot of driving enjoyment for the money.

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/01/business/la-fi-bmw-320-20140201





Back in college, I bought an E34 1990 BMW 525i sedan in green with tan leather. The odometer was pushing 236,000 miles. It was a near-base model with a base engine, air conditioning, and a five-speed manual. I had gobs of fun with it, driving all over the region while enjoying the purity of the steering, [what was left of the] suspension, and balanced chassis.

Cars like the 320i remind us of BMW's original mission, to build and sell driving machines for motorists. The base ATS, on the other hand, is harder to accept because Cadillac's reputation is for selling indulgence and excess. If a stripper ATS came with a more refined engine than the 2.5L, even if it had less power, it could do well against the 320i. It would certainly be far more competent than the Mercedes CLA.
Truth be told as far as driving enjoyment is concerned, that honor goes to the ATS.. It is truly what the 3 used to be. The 3 has since moved on to follow its aging lovers..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,488 Posts
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top