[BigAls87Z28]

Anyone sick and tired of hearing the same "looks like a grand prix/am, cavi, etc" or GM missed the ball on this one, or its slow.... Im really just fed up with all this GTO bashing. You mention the word GTO on LS1.com AAG board and the whole site lights up bashing the car saying it looks like a grand am and is a big pos.

I really wish GM never ever brought them over here. Should have just stuck with what makes people happy, sub par quality with sub par parts with a good motor for a shade under 30k. GM, stop making cars al together while your at it. It seems that GM cannot do good in the publics eyes. GM should just sell all of itself to Toytoa.

 

[69nova]

Nope!

 

[Tone]

Well, I do think some of the criticism is apt, but it is way over the top.

I really like GTOs, especially the 68 - 70 models. I was quite excited about the new GTO and even liked the styling in photos. But, when I saw it in Detroit, I had to agree with the detractors. In a sea of Pontiacs, the GTO simply didn't stand out at all.

But, from everything I've read, it's a great package -- a legitimate alternative to something like a 3 series BMW or a G35 coupe, but with its own (V8-dominated) personality. If I were in the market for that kind of car, I would definitely give it a good, hard look.

The styling is a bit bland, but that seems to be the only issue with the car and it isn't a major one IMHO. Plus, Pontiac will likely address this shortcoming within the next two years. Given the fact they've figured out how to address this niche (18000 cars) profitably, I think they should be lauded for even trying.

I do think there is a large body of F-body enthusiasts who are really angry GM discontinued the car. They seem to protest every new GM car on the basis that it isn't an F-body (GTO, Solstice, V8 GP, etc.). From what I've seen, that's where most of the carping is coming from. But, they also seem to be a rather small, if especially vocal, group, so I don't know whether their concerns represent a poor future for the GTO.

 

[paul8488]

i agree with bigal... every one of the 18,000 GTO's will be sold this year (maybe they are already!), and there will be 18,000 very happy drivers out there. i can't afford one (and i'm canadian, so it doesn't matter), but i can't think of one car i'd like better. it has nothing to prove... it makes it's point when you open the hood and/or stomp on the gas pedal! pontiac should be proud... they really did build (well okay, import!) excitement. may not look it, but it's 180 degrees from what pontiac got up to over the past decade (all show, no go).

 

[paul8488]

Originally posted by bigals87z28@Feb 10 2004, 05:13 PM
GM, stop making cars al together while your at it. It seems that GM cannot do good in the publics eyes. GM should just sell all of itself to Toytoa.

i think an intervention is in order... we're losing bigal! there has to be a GM 12-step program...

it'll be released in 2005, based on a 1999 program. it'll really only have 7 steps, though all the other companies have 25-step programs available already. but there'll be huge incentives on it. unfortunately the release date will be pushed back until 2006, due to supplier problems. it won't be quite as slick as the prototype. from what i hear, it'll be based on a daewoo program, translated from korean.

see, there is hope bigal just gotta look at the bright side!

 

[69nova]

Being serious now.
I think that you are wrong regarding the F-body crowd.
They are GM loyalists who want GM to be successful.
They do not equate the introduction of the GTO with the demise of the F-bodies. In fact, one member pointed out the safety issues that must be addressed with the F-body cars and that a re-tooling is necessary.
And nobody can dispute flagging sales.
I think that the majority of them would have opted for patience and maybe another year to debut a car in the tradition of theGTO. I agree with them that the new car, and it has many pluses in its drive train and handling, does not fit the styling that was offered in the old GTO's. Here, I ask you to look at the 2005 mustang.
I, for one, waited to see them in person to judge for myself. I was swayed positively by the mechanicals advertised.
Regarding the F-bodies, I like the Camaros but not the late model Trans Ams (Pontiac's rear end styling).
Heck, if you think the GTO is being scrutinized, wait until the new Camaro debuts. It is really going to have a tough row to hoe.
Now, speculate why Lutz did not introduce the Holden car on its own merits. I think that he would have an easier time. And it would sell just as well.

 

[Canuck]

I agree the GTO bashing is out of hand. The GTO is a great car. All the car mags loved Holdens and wanted GM to bring them to the the States. GM listens and all the mags can do is complain that the GTO doesn't look good blah blah blah, no sunroof, no Onstar, etc.
It is a performance bargain, better interior than anything in its price class, and a true four seater.
I am thrilled GM brought back the GTO and hope the name and concept of a RWD Coupe with a V8.
GM never imagined the emotions it would bring up with the return of the GTO. I doubt the same level of emotion and debate would happen if other Muscle car names returned.
People love the old GTO and the new GTO is a worthy heir to the GTO heritage.
Whatever the next GTO looks like some people will complain. If you are lucky enough to buy a new GTO just rev the engine and drive you won't hear any complaints because of the sweet sounding V8.

 

[Canuck]

Originally posted by 69nova@Feb 10 2004, 05:30 PM
Nope!

A 69 Nova and you think you can talk about style or great cars?

 

[Tone]

Originally posted by Canuck+Feb 10 2004, 01:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Canuck @ Feb 10 2004, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-69nova@Feb 10 2004, 05:30 PM
Nope!

A 69 Nova and you think you can talk about style or great cars? [/b][/quote]
FYI - The '69 Nova used the same plaform as the same year Camaro and Firebird. Optional was the 375 hp 396 engine, which made for a very quick package.

 

[69nova]

It's in the eye of the beholder.
Now, how does bringing up another car alter the perception of the new GTO?
I find it interesting that the GTO fans are so rabid against any criticism. I am quite willing to say the best of luck with the car to them. It is just not for me. A little sensitive aren't we?
As far as my Nova, GM got their monies' worth since it had the same platform as the Camaro. And it sold well for them. Watch horsepower on the spike channel, they are rebuilding one. If you don't like it, that is okay.
Like I said, the car should stand on its own merits. It might be accepted better as a fresh approach. The problem is that I'm not the only one with this opinion. Only time will tell.
I'm chuckling while I'm writing this. It is as if the new GTO guys are being locked out of some club. sorry, you can't come in.

 

[coolcaddy]

Saw a GTO. Sat in a GTO. Drove a GTO. Loved it.

If I had to trade my CTS for any other similarly-priced car today, it would be a Pontiac GTO in a heartbeat. Hands-down. No questions asked. Class dismissed.

While good people can disagree on whether or not it looks like a GTO should or whether or not its Australian origin muddies the GTO image, anyone who faults it for being anything less than an exciting, all-out performance car falls into one of three categories:

* simply doesn't like performance cars, and therefore is expressing his/her distaste for cars that are like the GTO, (I can actually relate to this to some extent)

* has some sort of physical handicap that would not allow this individual to fully perceive the GTO driving experience

* has never actually driven one, which would indicate that this individual is uninformed and full of crap

* maintains an anti-GM or anti-Pontiac bias, which would indicate that this individual has created an identity for him/herself that causes him/her to be dependent upon the failure of GM or Pontiac--which, of course, means that person really needs to get a life

...otherwise, as far as more subjective measures are concerned, I thought the car was gorgeous and I had no problem identifying it with "Pontiac" and "GTO".

 

[casket_demon]

I 4 1 am sick of it. The bashing of the GTO is almost as bad as the whole Janet Jackson boob thing...I think all the crybabies would have been happier had it been based of the current Monte Carlo.Hell, GM should have just based it off the Grand Am...since in "RETRO"spect it was no more than that except based off the plain Jane Tempest.

 

[69nova]

Like in another thread, I got over it. So why was this thread started?
You are right, I am tired of it too. Time to move onto something else.

 

[Carguy]

Yes I to am very mutch TIRED of the GTO BASHING I for one LOVE the car and would buy one if I could.Shure the nose treatment could have been a little BRAIVER but its still very attractive over all and RWD!!!!!!!!!! :woot2: :mf_boff:

 

[mgescuro]

Originally posted by 69nova@Feb 10 2004, 08:03 PM
Like in another thread, I got over it. So why was this thread started?
You are right, I am tired of it too. Time to move onto something else.

Yeaaahh... time to bash the STS because it's soo plain looking. :rudolph:

THe GTO looks awesome. So what if it's "plain." At least it's not a retro machine like a certain pony car. And why do people love the car so much when it's in Europe or in AUstralia... but the moment it appears in the US, it is bashed to death?
Do people concentrate ont eh fit and finish of the interior? How it is light years ahead of current models? Nope. Do they concnetrate on the engine? Nope. THey concentrate on how boring and how "phone company car" it looks.

I remember a couple of years ago when the T-Bird was launched and everybody was drooling over it. Now all of a sudden, the T-Bird is described as "questionable styling."

Get over it people... GTO is a good thing. ANd definitely adds excitement to the Excitement Division of GM.

 

[gtogary]

Back in the day, I was fortunate enough to have owned both a new '66 GTO with the 389 and a new '68 with the 400.

Then came the new 2004 GTO. Not so thrilled with the body style...but you know what? The aftermarket is going to have a ball with this until GM can get some planned enhancements into production. I DO think the bashing is way over the top.
People seem to forget that the original was a basic Tempest with crappy brakes and sloppy (even dangerous) steering with zero suspension that GM just happened to drop a big block V-8 and a Hurst shifter in. Run that car against the new one and there is no contest.

ANYWAY, the 1st one showed up at the dealer last week so I went to check it out. It was the bright yellow one sitting out front on their raised patio. I was as underwhelmed by the styling as I though I'd be but the interior is a knockout. The salesman really knew his stuff and began to regurgitate every feature and fact that you could possibly think of...AND THEN he said, "Do you want to hear it? "Sure", I answered. HOLY CRAP!! I hadn't heard a sound like that from any GM car since my '68. I mean this thing ROCKS!! So the engine kept running while the eager salesman kept going on about the virtues of the car. It was at LEAST 20 minutes later and he had still not come up for air when I interjected that maybe he might want to turn the engine off before it ran out of gas. He said "no, why don't we just leave it. Soothes the soul, you know".

Bottom line... NO ONE who has the cash and a passion for performance would pass this up for styling after they hear this thing growl and burble. AWESOME!!

 

[69nova]

You are correct gtogary.
I never faulted the new gto for its performance specs. The numbers are really impressive. But I too was underwhelmed by the styling.
I am also envious of the exhaust note and know that GM had purposely made it a unique selling feature of this car.
Months ago, when contemplating the Monte Carlo, I e-mailed the Chevy division asking why the MC's exhaust could be more throaty. You know, some Flowmasters maybe. The reply was that there are government specs that must be met. WHAT? They must be met for any other car but the GTO (unless they can get away with the car being imported-but this is a stretch since imports must meet EPA requirements). That was a b.s. answer if I ever heard one.
But we do expect the bar to be raised with the technology advances. Even the 60's GTO's would be so much better performance wise if given a refresh.

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Im glad that people are getting tired of the GTO. I actualy saw one up close and touched one today. One was silver, the other was black. They looked a lot better up close. There where lines that you couldnt see in pics. Only fault I found is with the rims, as they look like they are 15's! Other then that, its a very smooth, very nice looking car. I would love to finaly hear this car in person, and not over the internet sound clips. The Interior, front and back looked like pure sex. I really think this is a knock out of a car. I think the only beef people have with the car, is that its called GTO. There are many lines on this car that look very good.
With GM's Autocross GTO, I hope that some of that stuff makes it on the 05's as I see more love for that look. Someone just posted the pics on a web site, and everyone said "I dont like regular GTO, but this one is sweet!" I think GM has a hit on there hands if they tweek some things. All the owners I have talked to seem to fall in love with teh car. I loved the car when I saw it tonight. It really looks like a slick little car. And I did say little, it is a very small car. It looks as if a 4th or third gen fbody is a land barge compared to this. How they got a smaller car to have more room is a mystery to me!! I really would love to tear it up in a GTO. Id blask "Little GTO" out of the 200 watt blaupunkt stereo.
There is a small aftermarket now, but it seems to be growing fast! They have dynoed stock GTO's and they are ranging from upper 290's in a low low milage car(18 miles) to one car with 9k on the clock(yes, 9k on a 2 month old car, you think that the owner loves it?) that put down 310ish. They have a CAI intake that net 14 rwhp, and they just brought out the 18 mile GTO with headers. It dyno'ed at 330hp!! And the motor isnt even broken in. There is still a good 10-15 hp in the motor after break in. Someone ran it at the track. 13.19 @ 102mph. Dropped abotu 150lbs of stuff of the GTO(skid plate, spare, etc) and with some minor mods all on 275 BFG's I belive. The MPH was is low, but the et rocks! 60' was 1.8 with a best of 1.779 i belive. Thats very good for a IRS rear. All in all, after seeing the GTO tonight, I feel better that I now have seen and touched the car. Also, that wing has to go. It feels like one of thoes pep boys plastic bolt on jobs. IMO if I picked one up, Id ask for them NOT to put on the wing. I like the rear much better without it.

 

[Arrowhead222]

Hell, if all it takes to impress people is a big engine and nice mufflers, why don't they just send all the designers home? Who cares if the Holden looks like a big Cavalier? It's fast!!! Maybe Ferrari and Lamborghini can learn something here. All they have to do is import econoboxes from another country and stick big engines in them and people will be thrilled! Yeah, I'm tired of all this GTO bashing. People just need to realize it for what it is: The ugly fat girl who puts out for all the undiscriminating tasteless guys under the bleachers.

 

[69nova]

Oh, Arrowhead.
Just when things were smoothing out and everybody was repairing the scars, you drop that bomb. :lol:
Here we go again. (Still laughing.)