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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My parents seem interested in a new 2017 LaCrosse to replace their now 7 year old LaCrosse (which has been bulletproof when it comes to reliability). They test drove one and decided that the start/stop was not something they'd ever voluntarily choose, but it did not bother them very much. They are also looking at an Avalon.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any known problems with the 3.6L V6 engine or the transmission in the 2017 model LaCrosse? The cylinder deactivation and start/stop as well as the transmission are different than the 3.6L V6 in their older 2011 model.
 

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The current 3.6 is pretty reliable and I haven't heard of many timing chain failures or other major issues on the current models. As far as the Avalon goes I think it's more car for the money than the LaCrosse and has a nicer interior IMO.
 

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Although it's becoming a fashion trend amongst those that really like to cheap out whenever possible..... you still have to look longer and harder ( thank goodness ) to find a lousy, full blown 4 (4 4) with the NHTSA Frontal Impact Protection Tests. Which is what the Avalon provides.

A 4 btw, is on average, worth about 3.5 / 5.5 times the serious injury rate given an incident versus an average 5 for the eh what ? 2007 / 201i ? vintage.

The counter argument supporting all this kind of cheaper, 'soft nose' - poorer than need be Frontal Impact Protection is the provision of the 'avoidance' and 'mitigation' electronic nannies.


And that right there means you have to be an extra extra - extra 'special' kamakiz oops, I mean 'believer' to set yourself up like that ie less Frontal Impact Protection plus Toyota Vehicle Electronics.

Also some specific parts of our National 'Accident data base' are starting to indicate this trade off does not come out the way it was supposed to, and yep, guess who loses when it doesn't.

Japo Zero in '44 comes to mind but hey, as always, there is .... a seat for every ass and an ass for every seat ....


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Don't know the 2017 Lacrosse yet, but the 2016 was a 5 (5 5) and Buick was considered on the last go around, as the brand with the least amount of Electronic hink....none of which means anything definitive for a 2017....but is uh at least promising in a way that no Toyota / Lexus has ever been, is today, and quite frankly...... is ever likely to be.

Late Add : While I do not have the details, NHTSA does give the 2017 Lacrosse a 5 ( ? ? ) for that 'cumulative' frontal impact rating as opposed to the 4 ( 4 4 ) for Avalon.

McDonalds going all Organic Vegan is at least a little more likely.....

Notice btw, who does not want full autonomous - which is a more than well placed self doubt.
 
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Many years ago........proof!!
The only engine Toyota had sludge issues with was the 1997-2002 3L V6.
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

You either screwed that up on purpose or literally know nothing about the subject - or Court Proceedings and Settlements etc etc agreed to by Toyota themselves.


That was settled in court in 2007, their engines and transmissions have been bullet proof since.
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

- and that's without including any consideration for the rest of the vehicles, UA, and or SUA.

Which takes it all up to another level.

Toyota 'owns' on a routine Monthly and or Quarterly basis the worst of the Recall Rate performances, and also many of those special, super sexy things like Class Actions about....... Formal Recall Performance.

They are in up to their ass in serious, formal Legal Proceedings and separately, problems that are headed in that direction.

To do justice to your epic fail here - which may just be the most ridiculous statement ever in the history of GMI - which is really sayin' something..... would require its own forum about the size of GMI itself.

But really, we can see enough fail with just one simple observation to show the way.

And that would actually be useful for this topic. ;) :yup:

That would be the beyond epic sized ( as in millions and millions of vehicles ) - on going Class Action for the I4 2AZ-FE.

From the original Court filing dated 31March2014;



INTRODUCTION

1.This is a class action lawsuit brought by Plaintiffs on behalf of themselves and a class of current and former Toyota and Scion vehicle owners and lessees with defective 2AZ-FE engines in the following model years (“MY”):


MY 2007-2011 Toyota Camry HV
MY 2007-2009 Toyota Camry
MY 2009 Toyota Corolla
MY 2009 Toyota Matrix
MY 2006-2008 Toyota RAV4
MY 2007-2008 Toyota Solara
MY 2007-2009 Scion tC
MY 2008-2009 Scion xB

(the “Class Vehicles”).1





2. This action arises from Defendants’ failure, despite their longstanding knowledge of a material design defect, to disclose to Plaintiffs and other consumers that the Class Vehicles are predisposed to an excessively high rate of engine oil consumption (the “Oil Consumption Defect”). This defect – which typically manifests itself during and shortly after the limited warranty period has expired – will inevitably cause the Class Vehicles to prematurely burn off and/or consume abnormal and excessive amounts of engine oil.


3. Significantly, the existence of the Oil Consumption Defect poses a safety risk to the operator and passengers of the vehicle because it prevents the engine from maintaining the proper level of engine oil, and causes an excessive amount of engine oil consumption that can neither be reasonably anticipated nor predicted. Further, the Oil Consumption Defect can cause engine failure while the Class Vehicles are in operation at any time and under any driving condition or speed. This exposes the driver and occupants of the Class Vehicles, as well as others who share the roadwith them, to an increased risk of accident, injury, or death. As discussed further herein, numerous owners and lessees of the Class Vehicles have experienced engine damage and cata
strophic failure while operating the Class Vehicle, thus placing themselves and those around them in immediate danger. -
.
.
.
.
[1] Plaintiffs reserve the right to amend or add to the vehicle models included in the definition of Class Vehicles after conducting discovery

http://www.classactionsnews.com/sit...ne Oil Consumption Class Action Complaint.pdf


--


Useful bread crumb trail for updates here -

Lax et al v. Toyota Motor Corporation et al

Federal Civil Lawsuit California Northern District Court, Case No. 3:14-cv-01490

Magistrate Judge Laurel Beeler, presiding docket://gov.uscourts.cand.3-14-cv-01490

Last Updated December 31, 2016 at 4:52 PM EST

https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2...t/lax-et-al-v-toyota-motor-corporation-et-al/

( Toyota's transparently desperate attempt to change the 'Venue' was shot down. Wanted to get back down South where it appears they have more than many ( dirty - as in filthy ) Friends....:yup: on the Bench. )
 

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I would be completely unafraid of either car.
So this is easy... they should drive both and buy the one they like best.
 

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There is a better deal to be had buying the BUick over the toyoto.
Even better deals to be had buying a current year model Buick used and save BIG
bucks vs. buying the toyoto.

Not to mention folks calling you a scab or traitor when driving the toyoto
instead of a Buick!
 

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:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

You either screwed that up on purpose or literally know nothing about the subject - or Court Proceedings and Settlements etc etc agreed to by Toyota themselves.




:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

- and that's without including any consideration for the rest of the vehicles, UA, and or SUA.

Which takes it all up to another level.

Toyota 'owns' on a routine Monthly and or Quarterly basis the worst of the Recall Rate performances, and also many of those special, super sexy things like Class Actions about....... Formal Recall Performance.

They are in up to their ass in serious, formal Legal Proceedings and separately, problems that are headed in that direction.

To do justice to your epic fail here - which may just be the most ridiculous statement ever in the history of GMI - which is really sayin' something..... would require its own forum about the size of GMI itself.

But really, we can see enough fail with just one simple observation to show the way.

And that would actually be useful for this topic. ;) :yup:

That would be the beyond epic sized ( as in millions and millions of vehicles ) - on going Class Action for the I4 2AZ-FE.

From the original Court filing dated 31March2014;



INTRODUCTION

1.This is a class action lawsuit brought by Plaintiffs on behalf of themselves and a class of current and former Toyota and Scion vehicle owners and lessees with defective 2AZ-FE engines in the following model years (“MY”):


MY 2007-2011 Toyota Camry HV
MY 2007-2009 Toyota Camry
MY 2009 Toyota Corolla
MY 2009 Toyota Matrix
MY 2006-2008 Toyota RAV4
MY 2007-2008 Toyota Solara
MY 2007-2009 Scion tC
MY 2008-2009 Scion xB

(the “Class Vehicles”).1





2. This action arises from Defendants’ failure, despite their longstanding knowledge of a material design defect, to disclose to Plaintiffs and other consumers that the Class Vehicles are predisposed to an excessively high rate of engine oil consumption (the “Oil Consumption Defect”). This defect – which typically manifests itself during and shortly after the limited warranty period has expired – will inevitably cause the Class Vehicles to prematurely burn off and/or consume abnormal and excessive amounts of engine oil.


3. Significantly, the existence of the Oil Consumption Defect poses a safety risk to the operator and passengers of the vehicle because it prevents the engine from maintaining the proper level of engine oil, and causes an excessive amount of engine oil consumption that can neither be reasonably anticipated nor predicted. Further, the Oil Consumption Defect can cause engine failure while the Class Vehicles are in operation at any time and under any driving condition or speed. This exposes the driver and occupants of the Class Vehicles, as well as others who share the roadwith them, to an increased risk of accident, injury, or death. As discussed further herein, numerous owners and lessees of the Class Vehicles have experienced engine damage and cata
strophic failure while operating the Class Vehicle, thus placing themselves and those around them in immediate danger. -
.
.
.
.
[1] Plaintiffs reserve the right to amend or add to the vehicle models included in the definition of Class Vehicles after conducting discovery

http://www.classactionsnews.com/sit...ne Oil Consumption Class Action Complaint.pdf


--


Useful bread crumb trail for updates here -

Lax et al v. Toyota Motor Corporation et al

Federal Civil Lawsuit California Northern District Court, Case No. 3:14-cv-01490

Magistrate Judge Laurel Beeler, presiding docket://gov.uscourts.cand.3-14-cv-01490

Last Updated December 31, 2016 at 4:52 PM EST

https://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2...t/lax-et-al-v-toyota-motor-corporation-et-al/

( Toyota's transparently desperate attempt to change the 'Venue' was shot down. Wanted to get back down South where it appears they have more than many ( dirty - as in filthy ) Friends....:yup: on the Bench. )


Seeing that I do know what is going on with NA vehicles and not only work on them but teach new tradesmen coming in the trade. Toyota has many class action suites pending, as does GM might I add but we were talking about rust and sludge in engines. The only engine Toyota ever had major sludge in was the 3L V6 from 1997 - 2002 and that WAS SETTLED IN COURT IN 2007. None of the other class action suites have been settled or proven to be caused by Toyota's engineering. So when you have proof of rust and sludge in engines from Toyota sold in NA in the last few years please produce it. I might add proven in court not in America 123 mind because I don't care about some engine we will never see in Canada. Sludge in some engine in South America means nothing to anyone up here.
 

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You really want this to keep going ???

Odd, I thought '2002Caddy' had learned to do differently.....

Here, I'll be kind and limit things to your epic miss with Sludge.

Toyotas covered by the Louisiana settlement include the:

Camry 4 cylinder from 1997-2001,
• Camry 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Camry Solara 4 cylinder from 1999-2001,
• Camry Solara 6 cylinder 1999-2002,
• Sienna 6 cylinder from 1998-2002,
• Avalon 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Celica 4 cylinder from 1997-1999,
• Highlander 6 cylinder from 2001-2002,
• Lexus ES 300 from 1997-2002 and
• Lexus RX 300 from 1999-2002.

Like I said ......
 

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You really want this to keep going ???

Odd, I thought '2002Caddy' had learned to do differently.....

Here, I'll be kind and limit things to your epic miss with Sludge.

Toyotas covered by the Louisiana settlement include the:

Camry 4 cylinder from 1997-2001,
• Camry 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Camry Solara 4 cylinder from 1999-2001,
• Camry Solara 6 cylinder 1999-2002,
• Sienna 6 cylinder from 1998-2002,
• Avalon 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Celica 4 cylinder from 1997-1999,
• Highlander 6 cylinder from 2001-2002,
• Lexus ES 300 from 1997-2002 and
• Lexus RX 300 from 1999-2002.

Like I said ......
Like I said the only civil case that Toyota had for sludge was for 3L V6 engines 1997- 2002 that was settled in 2007. The BS you have above is for burning oil.......nice try. To put this back on track it was about sludge in NEW TOYOTA ENGINES sold in North America.
You really don't know anything about the automotive trade, searching the web for a pile of BS proves it and then trying to pass it off as fact ..........you are a gem. I knew you were special with all this $hit you pile on this forum, pile after pile, go search the web again winner.
 

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Toyotas covered by the Louisiana settlement include the:

• Camry 4 cylinder from 1997-2001,
• Camry 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Camry Solara 4 cylinder from 1999-2001,
• Camry Solara 6 cylinder 1999-2002,
• Sienna 6 cylinder from 1998-2002,
• Avalon 6 cylinder from 1997-2002,
• Celica 4 cylinder from 1997-1999,
• Highlander 6 cylinder from 2001-2002,
• Lexus ES 300 from 1997-2002 and
• Lexus RX 300 from 1999-2002.

Like I said ......
Do you want to Settle in Court the GM engine cases? I just counted at least 10 in my head.

3.4L Manifold Gaskets
6.5L,D Engine Blocks
5.3L Piston Slap
5.3L Intake Gasket
5.7L intake Gasket
3.4L DOHC Engine Failure
7.0L Engine Failure
5.3L Carbon Build Up
4.1L Head Gasket Failure
2.3L Sludge Build Up

But none of those have been Settled in Court
 

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Do you want to Settle in Court the GM engine cases? I just counted at least 10 in my head.

3.4L Manifold Gaskets
6.5L,D Engine Blocks
5.3L Piston Slap
5.3L Intake Gasket
5.7L intake Gasket
3.4L DOHC Engine Failure
7.0L Engine Failure
5.3L Carbon Build Up
4.1L Head Gasket Failure
2.3L Sludge Build Up

But none of those have been Settled in Court
Like I said Toyota engine sludge civil suites settled in court in North America but more importantly for new Toyota engines because she is going to buy a new car and the question was "any issues".
So when you come up with a 2016-2017 North American civil case settled in court for sludge for Toyota on ANY of their engines let me know, because I know there are none. They are bullet proof!
 

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Meckstroth v. Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. et al., case number 583-318, in the 24th Judicial District in Jefferson Parish, Louisiana.





And evidently .... besides all the Toyota AT / Prime mover fail you always also manage to side step :yup::lmao::fall: - you also also are spectacularly unfamiliar with the Seven plus Year's long run up to the OilGel Class Action / Class Action Settlement.

All the related Campaigns ...... and TSBs as they grudgingly and poorly tried to head off what happened anyway with the Class Action.

Make sure you include in your classes the absolutely stunning Engineering lack with all this - and their inability to figure out what was going on until some people from Mobil and Amsoil and some others in the biz..... cleared their throats and left more than clues.

I see you uh do not seem to even grasp that generically, 'oil sludging' and in particular, these truly uniquely screwed Prime Mover / Sludge Monsters are always associated with excessive oil consumption and usually any number of ways -.

We have - as you know but pretend to be oblivious to....a pretty good collection of threads and also posts about all this.

Seriously, you bring the quality of the forum down when you literally almost try and claim Gravity pulls up rather than down.

Everyone knows the truth here - just stop being so silly with it.

When you do your spin and all the stuff related, try and work with something 90 / 99 % closer to the truth - you will be more successful when you then inject the spin.

There isn't a single major Lexus / Scion / Toyota forum out there that didn't have this covered and covered well enough or more as well.

Do you want me to ah provide all the Lexus / Toyota Dealer Communications that you ah also forgot ????
 
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WOW - way to fudge-up a thread with garbage A123. :clap:
 

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It's possible this is being a wee bit overthought...

Buy the one you like best and don't worry about it!
If you're still worried there's this: The Buick has a better warranty, so there ya go.
 
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