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Keystone is only 8% complete, it wouldn't have helped by now if it had continued because it would still be being built, but that's irrelevant now. The oil that was going to be sent via the Keystone is now sent via rail and tanker so it still gets here, just not as easily. Our oil isn't what we turn into gasoline so it wouldn't help unless they redid all of our refineries. It's the wrong grade for gasoline production.
Keystone WAS only 8% complete when it was killed. It would be more than 1/2 done by now and oil producers would have been gearing up to supply it.

Capacity of rail is no-where near what the pipeline would have been. Not even close and the environmental impact of those trains moving crude is a disaster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Keystone WAS only 8% complete when it was killed. It would be more than 1/2 done by now and oil producers would have been gearing up to supply it.

Capacity of rail is no-where near what the pipeline would have been. Not even close and the environmental impact of those trains moving crude is a disaster.
Regardless, it hasn't impacted the prices we're seeing. I don't remember saying I was against the pipeline, either. I made a satirical comment but never said it shouldn't have happened. America has a problem. We have an addiction. We need to kick it or nothing will change. We've known for almost 50 years that relying on foreign oil was hurting our economy and security but we did nothing. I'm blaming both sides of the aisle so please don't misconstrue my comments for support of either party.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Keystone WAS only 8% complete when it was killed. It would be more than 1/2 done by now and oil producers would have been gearing up to supply it.

Capacity of rail is no-where near what the pipeline would have been. Not even close and the environmental impact of those trains moving crude is a disaster.
We can bring in 10 times the oil from Canada that we do know, still won't change the price of gasoline. It's a global commodity. The only way that would help is if Canada sold only to us and we only used Canadian oil. Still not going to lower the price of gasoline. Why would they sell it only to us at a price that would make our gas cheaper when they can make more selling it to others? Are we going to invade Canada and claim their oil like we did Kuwait and Iraq? I don't know why people are latching onto the whole "Keystone XL as Savior - or is that Saver - of American Gas Prices" idea. Oil is a global commodity, sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down.....you think we'd be used to this cycle after nearly 60 years of it.
 

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We can bring in 10 times the oil from Canada that we do know, still won't change the price of gasoline. It's a global commodity. The only way that would help is if Canada sold only to us and we only used Canadian oil. Still not going to lower the price of gasoline. Why would they sell it only to us at a price that would make our gas cheaper when they can make more selling it to others? Are we going to invade Canada and claim their oil like we did Kuwait and Iraq? I don't know why people are latching onto the whole "Keystone XL as Savior - or is that Saver - of American Gas Prices" idea. Oil is a global commodity, sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down.....you think we'd be used to this cycle after nearly 60 years of it.
Because the US can be the top global force in energy production thus driving down commodity prices for the world. Yea, it's not in the greenie weenie image to produce fossil fuels but the cycle doesn't have to be so painful for all involved.

You do realize we liberated Kuwait right? "claim their oil"?? Such a confusing term.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Because the US can be the top global force in energy production thus driving down commodity prices for the world. Yea, it's not in the greenie weenie image to produce fossil fuels but the cycle doesn't have to be so painful for all involved.

You do realize we liberated Kuwait right? "claim their oil"?? Such a confusing term.
Again, it's not about "greenie" (why the implication of weakness in being ecological responsible by saying "weenie"? As if it's unmanly to not pollute?), how're we going to be the top global force in energy production when our oil is chemically unsuitable for gasoline production (at least from an economical standpoint)? Everyone always assumes these decisions are made for ecological reasons when in the end, it comes right back to the same reason TO do them: money. We figure if we sit on our oil long enough, the Middle East will hit peak oil and decline and then it will be our turn to have gold-plated Lamborghinis. As for the "claim their oil", that was a satirical comment as I remember quite a few people on the left - and the Right for that matter - that THAT was actually why we were there.
 

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Oh, and not that I'm a fan, but Biden has issued more permits for drilling on public lands than Trump did. I'm not a fan of Biden (or Trump), just taking the political angle out of it all and trying to post facts, not hyperbole/Facebook posts/rumor/hysteria.
Having permits means nothing. From day 1, this administration declared war on the oil industry. Oil is a very capital intense industry. Large amounts of money has to be spent for years before there is oil. In declaring war on the industry, and with the involvement of ESC's, the capital markets investment in the oil industry has plummeted. On average, around $55B in capital went into the oil industry every year. Last year, it was $11B. This is the behind the scenes Greenie Weenies way of destroying the industry while having plausible deniability. Having new layers upon layers of regulations and constant delays also makes permits close to useless. The lower capital investment areas are denied, or permits (which are needed every step of the way) are denied or slowed in the easier to harvest areas.............. or the areas are closed altogether.

Refining capacity has also plummeted. Regulation upon regulation has been heaped on them also. Much of our gas comes from smaller private owned refineries, which have had exemptions from some regulations due to how prohibitably expensive they are.............. but this administration is/has ended all of that. On top of that, they are retroactively ending them, so the small refiners will have to pay penalties going back years. This may bankrupt many of these refineries. No new refinery has been built in decades, and as someone in the industry has said, there may never be another built.

It is an attack from all directions. The problem is, the pain from this is just starting. Wait until the cost hikes from this planting season come into play. Fossil fuels are part of EVERYTHING that we eat / drink / use, many many times over. How many farms / ranches will be bankrupted?? Most people have little to no understanding of how food gets from the land to their table. They think food comes from the grocery store. There are real shortages coming soon. That's ok, I hear China is happy to come in and buy it all up. We will have less and be happy, and the saddest part is that we could literally go back to living in caves and dragging knuckles, and it won't change the climate one iota. Those other places that we will be forced to get stuff from don't care, and will pollute enough to more than make up what we don't. Follow the money, and look at who is getting rich from this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Our oil isn't unsuitable, our refineries are. That's fixed by green lighting new refiners. Middle East will never hit peak oil in our life plus some.
Everything I've read (from the American Petroleum Institute) says that our oil is too light and sour to produce the same amount of gasoline per barrel of oil and still be competitive price wise. We could do it, but it would more than double the price per gallon of gasoline due to lower yield. That's why we sell ours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Having permits means nothing.
It means enough that a certain news channel can't shut up about spreading that the opposite (a lie) is actually true.

From day 1, this administration declared war on the oil industry. Oil is a very capital intense industry. Large amounts of money has to be spent for years before there is oil. In declaring war on the industry, and with the involvement of ESC's, the capital markets investment in the oil industry has plummeted. On average, around $55B in capital went into the oil industry every year. Last year, it was $11B. This is the behind the scenes Greenie Weenies way of destroying the industry while having plausible deniability. Having new layers upon layers of regulations and constant delays also makes permits close to useless. The lower capital investment areas are denied, or permits (which are needed every step of the way) are denied or slowed in the easier to harvest areas.............. or the areas are closed altogether.
Name calling. Yeah, that can drive a point home. Many regulations were lifted in 2015, by Obama, removing the ban on U.S. crude being sold in foreign markets. [/QUOTE]

Refining capacity has also plummeted. Regulation upon regulation has been heaped on them also. Much of our gas comes from smaller private owned refineries, which have had exemptions from some regulations due to how prohibitably expensive they are.............. but this administration is/has ended all of that. On top of that, they are retroactively ending them, so the small refiners will have to pay penalties going back years. This may bankrupt many of these refineries. No new refinery has been built in decades, and as someone in the industry has said, there may never be another built.
The newest refinery in the United States is the Targa Resources Corporation's 35,000 barrels per calendar day (b/cd) condensate splitter in Channelview, Texas, which began operating in 2019. That's well inside a decade.

It is an attack from all directions. The problem is, the pain from this is just starting. Wait until the cost hikes from this planting season come into play. Fossil fuels are part of EVERYTHING that we eat / drink / use, many many times over. How many farms / ranches will be bankrupted?? Most people have little to no understanding of how food gets from the land to their table. They think food comes from the grocery store. There are real shortages coming soon. That's ok, I hear China is happy to come in and buy it all up. We will have less and be happy, and the saddest part is that we could literally go back to living in caves and dragging knuckles, and it won't change the climate one iota. Those other places that we will be forced to get stuff from don't care, and will pollute enough to more than make up what we don't. Follow the money, and look at who is getting rich from this.
Well then maybe we need to diversify, stop putting all our eggs in one basket. I live in the Midwest and have a garden, I know where food comes from.
 

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Here is a recent article, "White House Weighs Fuel-Export Limits as Pump Prices Surge".

Bloomberg

From the article:

"In meetings with administration officials in recent weeks, refining executives have stressed that it’s incongruent to both talk down capital investments in the refining sector while pleading for more of them, two of the people said".
 

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And what pray tell would be "the right moves"? We've increased oil production under Biden, ever so slightly, so I'm not sure that "anti-oil" argument holds.....uh, water. We aren't the only country suffering from lower OPEC production, but around 60% of our oil imports come from Canada so begging OPEC for anything is just scraps. The only thing begging OPEC could accomplish is to increase production to lower per barrel costs which affects the whole world. We only get about 11% of our oil from OPEC.

Yeah, there's some "cart before the horse" going on, but car companies are wanting to go EV, too, as it saves them money in parts/labor/manufacturing, no emissions rules to worry about, and fewer warranty issues/claims.
The first “right move” would have been to not cancel “Keystone” to keep Canadian oil flowing our way efficiently instead of by rail or truck, just political stupidity. Cancelling federal leases was also a stupid sacrifice although he has now reversed course. The amount of pollution generated by tankers shipping oil is staggering and always makes domestic production a greener alternative. We should get none of our oil from OPEC but politics will probably prevent this better and greener choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
The first “right move” would have been to not cancel “Keystone” to keep Canadian oil flowing our way efficiently instead of by rail or truck, just political stupidity. Cancelling federal leases was also a stupid sacrifice although he has now reversed course. The amount of pollution generated by tankers shipping oil is staggering and always makes domestic production a greener alternative. We should get none of our oil from OPEC but politics will probably prevent this better and greener choice.
As I've said several times in this thread alone, we've known that our reliance on foreign oil is a National security issue, an economic issue and yes Lefties, an ecological issue (Exxon Valdez for those of us old enough to remember). Energy diversity and domestic production (again, I say that in many threads here) is THE answer. Not just oil, not just EV....both.
 

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The first “right move” would have been to not cancel “Keystone” to keep Canadian oil flowing our way efficiently instead of by rail or truck, just political stupidity. Cancelling federal leases was also a stupid sacrifice although he has now reversed course. The amount of pollution generated by tankers shipping oil is staggering and always makes domestic production a greener alternative. We should get none of our oil from OPEC but politics will probably prevent this better and greener choice.
The part of the Keystone project that was canceled was to improve exports of Canadian sourced oil, it wouldn’t have helped the current situation.
 

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Everything I've read (from the American Petroleum Institute) says that our oil is too light and sour to produce the same amount of gasoline per barrel of oil and still be competitive price wise. We could do it, but it would more than double the price per gallon of gasoline due to lower yield. That's why we sell ours.
No, light oil is prized more because it's easier to refine.

U.S. Number and Capacity of Petroleum Refineries (eia.gov)

We need a few more refineries point blank.


You say energy diversity but clamping down on an industry that takes 6-8 years to produce one well is absolutely wrong. We need a concise, CONSISTENT, energy plan and the last 4 years have been anything but that.
 

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@AWHoden

I found myself quoting almost every one of your posts to reply to, saving space I'll summarize............

Oil is a GLOBAL COMMODITY, so the ultimate price is boiled-down to supply/demand, however, like almost all investable assets, there is more to it than just that, the markets contain a varied level of speculation, be it: $KR, $GM, $RIVN, $AMZN, $TSLA, $BTC or $WTI - the market is about where something is going, not where it is currently at.

Global demand growing, combined with product from certain regions deemed "off-limits" combined with (and I quote) "We're going to wipe it out" and "“I Guarantee You We're Going To End Fossil Fuel” and actions that follow that mentality is why oil has gone (basically) straight-up since November of 2020.....

Selectively "fact-picking" 'production' 'permits' 'leases' 'etc' is disingenuous and only fools the ignorant.

@Extreme4x4 pretty-much hit the nail on the head, your replies only confirm and solidify her comments.
 

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Look at the profits being made off $118/barrel pricing versus over $180/barrel pricing during the war, blatant profiteering happening and being passed on throughout the economy to us poor suckers on the end of the chain….but then, the reserve bank decides to punish us further with savage interest rate increases pushing the US towards a recession and job losses…a lot of Americas businesses are acting like yankee traders, profiteering off everyone and poo pooing any sort of wage increase….
 

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Look at the profits being made off $118/barrel pricing versus over $180/barrel pricing during the war, blatant profiteering happening and being passed on throughout the economy to us poor suckers on the end of the chain….but then, the reserve bank decides to punish us further with savage interest rate increases pushing the US towards a recession and job losses…a lot of Americas businesses are acting like yankee traders, profiteering off everyone and poo pooing any sort of wage increase….
No, it's not. Look at the price of natural gas. Natural gas is literally a free commodity for the companies. Natural gas is where they make almost all of the excess "profit" you see now.

Plus, who the hell cares how much they make this year. No one was caring when they lost billions bc of BS covid.
 

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Keystone pipeline crude was scheduled for 100% export. Its demise has zero impact on US consumption, inventory or pricing.
See Post # 35


Look at the profits being made off $118/barrel pricing versus over $180/barrel pricing during the war, blatant profiteering happening and being passed on throughout the economy to us poor suckers on the end of the chain….but then, the reserve bank decides to punish us further with savage interest rate increases pushing the US towards a recession and job losses…a lot of Americas businesses are acting like yankee traders, profiteering off everyone and poo pooing any sort of wage increase….
Nonsense.............

Ignoring all the cost-savings and debt reduction they've done?
- Energy companies learned to be profitable in the $40-$50 range, the ones that didn't went broke.

"Poo Pooing any sort of wage increase"? Sure inflation is eating up the recent gains, but where do you get that labor cost haven't gone up?
 
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See Post # 35




Nonsense.............

Ignoring all the cost-savings and debt reduction they've done?
- Energy companies learned to be profitable in the $40-$50 range, the ones that didn't went broke.

"Poo Pooing any sort of wage increase"? Sure inflation is eating up the recent gains, but where do you get that labor cost haven't gone up?
Labor costs yes but wages to workers definitely haven‘t kept pace with price increases, not by a long shot.
 
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