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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
America Produces Enough Oil to Meet Its Needs, So Why Do We Import Crude?

"NBC News is reporting that the U.S. intends to ban imports of Russian oil today. That has caused another jump in already surging oil prices, but for many Americans the most surprising thing about this is that America imports Russian oil at all, let alone so much that it accounts for around eight percent of total U.S. oil usage. I mean, haven’t we been told repeatedly over the last five years or so how great it is that the U.S. has become energy independent?

Well, yes, we have. But that statement, while true in some ways, covers up several decades of short-sighted energy policies."


Discuss......
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
sad state, but so much of what is done, not just the government, is reactionary instead of proactive.
Very true.

Which is why I think America needs to be the one on the forefront of EV tech, not necessarily to replace ICE's but definitely to be THE country supplying the tech to places that are replacing/outlawing ICE's. That buys us time to switch, we're a pretty large, open and diverse country....for us to switch over is going to take far longer and more advanced tech. Might as well have other countries buy from us to foot the bill to pave the way for our inevitable switch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That’s great if we are also willing to build nuclear powerplants. France and Germany are ahead of us with their green agenda so you can look at both of them for our future results.

France has Nuclear and has kept the cost of electricity about the same. Germany on the other hand has had electric costs soar by comparison.
I ain't skerd no nukyaler powa! My dad helped build the plant in San Onofre, California and it's still working.....just don't ask about the three-eyed dolphins that walk around near the cooling tower outlets.....j/k.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Global issue years in the making. Russia made it much worse. Biden won't make the right moves because his base is anti-oil so he will beg the criminals in Saudi for more oil instead.



Germans like most western nations have been taken over by ESG minded people who think oil is dead and we should all be in EVs powered by the wind.

It all defies logic, common sense and most importantly, numbers. Numbers don't lie, peek oil demand won't hit for 15 years!
And what pray tell would be "the right moves"? We've increased oil production under Biden, ever so slightly, so I'm not sure that "anti-oil" argument holds.....uh, water. We aren't the only country suffering from lower OPEC production, but around 60% of our oil imports come from Canada so begging OPEC for anything is just scraps. The only thing begging OPEC could accomplish is to increase production to lower per barrel costs which affects the whole world. We only get about 11% of our oil from OPEC.

Yeah, there's some "cart before the horse" going on, but car companies are wanting to go EV, too, as it saves them money in parts/labor/manufacturing, no emissions rules to worry about, and fewer warranty issues/claims.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OPEC is not to blame here. As of this writing, the world average price of crude oil is about $118/barrel. In June 2008 as we were going into the Global Financial Crisis, crude oil peaked at $187/barrel. In April 2011, crude oil peaked at $148/barrel. Crude oil prices have rapidly come off their COVID-induced lows, but they are nowhere near peak highs.

That said, paying the prices that we pay at the pump are not pleasant. The reasons given are that several refineries are offline due to breakdowns, outdated technology, or failure to restart as COVID shutdowns were canceled.

Whatever the cause of the price hikes and however bad these price hikes are, they are disruptive of our economy and our daily lives. In my lifetime, we have suffered shortages beginning in 1973 with repetitions at inopportune times thereafter. Most of our recessions have been associated with crude oil price hikes and gasoline shortages. One of the signs of insanity is that you keep doing the same thing while hoping for a different result.

The nominal reason for the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 was in retaliation for the West's support of Israel in the Yom Kippur War. Vladimir Putin threatens Western Europe's gas and oil supplies because on NATO support for Ukraine. Fossil fuels gives our adversaries weapons that they can use to threaten us. And then, we whine about it.
Totally agree with this post.

Didn't mean to imply that OPEC was to blame, per se.

Oh, I remember gas lines and even/odd days in California when I was a kid. We act as if we are powerless to change, we are not, we are simply too shortsighted and reactionary to take action BEFORE problems arise. Having ICE's and EV's at the same time (which we do now and will most likely continue to do for the foreseeable future) could help with the hills and valleys of oil prices.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Some of this global oil issue today stems from the collapse in oil prices during Covid - no doubt. E&P expenditures collapsed and capacity did also. One of the presidents first moves when he took office was to kill Keystone XL which would have helped move 800,000+ barrels a day oil from Alberta. Just dumb, but that was a promise to the base. North America has all the oil it needs but instead of a pipeline, US still imports from middle east and apparently still Russia indirectly. Terrible.

This is a global issue but the US needs to take a leadership role in admitting we will need oil for a long time still. That will require incentives and easing of regulations, not just words telling oil companies to cut their prices. These things will not happen because of the commitments to climate change. Mark my words - we could see an energy crisis in the near future and it won't be pretty.
Keystone is only 8% complete, it wouldn't have helped by now if it had continued because it would still be being built, but that's irrelevant now. The oil that was going to be sent via the Keystone is now sent via rail and tanker so it still gets here, just not as easily. Our oil isn't what we turn into gasoline so it wouldn't help unless they redid all of our refineries. It's the wrong grade for gasoline production.

You see, the U.S. does produce enough oil to meet its own needs, but it is the wrong type of oil. Crude is graded according to two main metrics, weight and sweetness. The weight of oil defines how easy it is to refine, or break down into its usable component parts, such as gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. Light crude is the easiest to handle, heavy is the most difficult, with intermediate obviously somewhere in between. The sweetness refers to the sulfur content of unrefined oil. The sweeter it is, the less sulfur it contains. Most of the oil produced in the U.S. fields in Texas, Oklahoma, and elsewhere is light and sweet, compared to what comes from the Middle East and Russia. The problem is that for many years, imported oil met most of the U.S.’s energy needs, so a large percentage of the refining capacity here is geared towards dealing with oil that is heavier and less sweet than the kind produced here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Oh, and not that I'm a fan, but Biden has issued more permits for drilling on public lands than Trump did. I'm not a fan of Biden (or Trump), just taking the political angle out of it all and trying to post facts, not hyperbole/Facebook posts/rumor/hysteria.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You might want to look at the Weekly Petroleum statistics issued today. It describes the amount of oil that is being produced and exported. It also discusses that dynamics of moving oil and products from where it is produced to where it is consumed.

Updated EIA

(Also, see Post #4).

Here is the first line in the Analysis:

"U.S. exports of crude oil and petroleum products reached a record of 9.8 million barrels per day (b/d) during the week of May 27 (based on a four-week rolling average)".
See, that's another thing I don't get. If we're feeling pinched at the pump due to supply issues, why are we exporting gasoline? The geo-political angle on petroleum is just insane.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
They scare me a little but mostly because I don’t know much about them and the waste is a concern.
Well....there is that. One is being decommissioned near Omaha, seems ok so far. LOL They removed the fuel rods 6 years ago. The floods of 2011 caused a fire there and shut down cooling for about 90 minutes, which is a big deal when it comes to nuclear power. OPPD decided against keeping it open in 2017 and started the tear down.

Water Natural landscape Urban design Landscape Waterway
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Keystone WAS only 8% complete when it was killed. It would be more than 1/2 done by now and oil producers would have been gearing up to supply it.

Capacity of rail is no-where near what the pipeline would have been. Not even close and the environmental impact of those trains moving crude is a disaster.
Regardless, it hasn't impacted the prices we're seeing. I don't remember saying I was against the pipeline, either. I made a satirical comment but never said it shouldn't have happened. America has a problem. We have an addiction. We need to kick it or nothing will change. We've known for almost 50 years that relying on foreign oil was hurting our economy and security but we did nothing. I'm blaming both sides of the aisle so please don't misconstrue my comments for support of either party.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Keystone WAS only 8% complete when it was killed. It would be more than 1/2 done by now and oil producers would have been gearing up to supply it.

Capacity of rail is no-where near what the pipeline would have been. Not even close and the environmental impact of those trains moving crude is a disaster.
We can bring in 10 times the oil from Canada that we do know, still won't change the price of gasoline. It's a global commodity. The only way that would help is if Canada sold only to us and we only used Canadian oil. Still not going to lower the price of gasoline. Why would they sell it only to us at a price that would make our gas cheaper when they can make more selling it to others? Are we going to invade Canada and claim their oil like we did Kuwait and Iraq? I don't know why people are latching onto the whole "Keystone XL as Savior - or is that Saver - of American Gas Prices" idea. Oil is a global commodity, sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down.....you think we'd be used to this cycle after nearly 60 years of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Because the US can be the top global force in energy production thus driving down commodity prices for the world. Yea, it's not in the greenie weenie image to produce fossil fuels but the cycle doesn't have to be so painful for all involved.

You do realize we liberated Kuwait right? "claim their oil"?? Such a confusing term.
Again, it's not about "greenie" (why the implication of weakness in being ecological responsible by saying "weenie"? As if it's unmanly to not pollute?), how're we going to be the top global force in energy production when our oil is chemically unsuitable for gasoline production (at least from an economical standpoint)? Everyone always assumes these decisions are made for ecological reasons when in the end, it comes right back to the same reason TO do them: money. We figure if we sit on our oil long enough, the Middle East will hit peak oil and decline and then it will be our turn to have gold-plated Lamborghinis. As for the "claim their oil", that was a satirical comment as I remember quite a few people on the left - and the Right for that matter - that THAT was actually why we were there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Our oil isn't unsuitable, our refineries are. That's fixed by green lighting new refiners. Middle East will never hit peak oil in our life plus some.
Everything I've read (from the American Petroleum Institute) says that our oil is too light and sour to produce the same amount of gasoline per barrel of oil and still be competitive price wise. We could do it, but it would more than double the price per gallon of gasoline due to lower yield. That's why we sell ours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Having permits means nothing.
It means enough that a certain news channel can't shut up about spreading that the opposite (a lie) is actually true.

From day 1, this administration declared war on the oil industry. Oil is a very capital intense industry. Large amounts of money has to be spent for years before there is oil. In declaring war on the industry, and with the involvement of ESC's, the capital markets investment in the oil industry has plummeted. On average, around $55B in capital went into the oil industry every year. Last year, it was $11B. This is the behind the scenes Greenie Weenies way of destroying the industry while having plausible deniability. Having new layers upon layers of regulations and constant delays also makes permits close to useless. The lower capital investment areas are denied, or permits (which are needed every step of the way) are denied or slowed in the easier to harvest areas.............. or the areas are closed altogether.
Name calling. Yeah, that can drive a point home. Many regulations were lifted in 2015, by Obama, removing the ban on U.S. crude being sold in foreign markets. [/QUOTE]

Refining capacity has also plummeted. Regulation upon regulation has been heaped on them also. Much of our gas comes from smaller private owned refineries, which have had exemptions from some regulations due to how prohibitably expensive they are.............. but this administration is/has ended all of that. On top of that, they are retroactively ending them, so the small refiners will have to pay penalties going back years. This may bankrupt many of these refineries. No new refinery has been built in decades, and as someone in the industry has said, there may never be another built.
The newest refinery in the United States is the Targa Resources Corporation's 35,000 barrels per calendar day (b/cd) condensate splitter in Channelview, Texas, which began operating in 2019. That's well inside a decade.

It is an attack from all directions. The problem is, the pain from this is just starting. Wait until the cost hikes from this planting season come into play. Fossil fuels are part of EVERYTHING that we eat / drink / use, many many times over. How many farms / ranches will be bankrupted?? Most people have little to no understanding of how food gets from the land to their table. They think food comes from the grocery store. There are real shortages coming soon. That's ok, I hear China is happy to come in and buy it all up. We will have less and be happy, and the saddest part is that we could literally go back to living in caves and dragging knuckles, and it won't change the climate one iota. Those other places that we will be forced to get stuff from don't care, and will pollute enough to more than make up what we don't. Follow the money, and look at who is getting rich from this.
Well then maybe we need to diversify, stop putting all our eggs in one basket. I live in the Midwest and have a garden, I know where food comes from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
The first “right move” would have been to not cancel “Keystone” to keep Canadian oil flowing our way efficiently instead of by rail or truck, just political stupidity. Cancelling federal leases was also a stupid sacrifice although he has now reversed course. The amount of pollution generated by tankers shipping oil is staggering and always makes domestic production a greener alternative. We should get none of our oil from OPEC but politics will probably prevent this better and greener choice.
As I've said several times in this thread alone, we've known that our reliance on foreign oil is a National security issue, an economic issue and yes Lefties, an ecological issue (Exxon Valdez for those of us old enough to remember). Energy diversity and domestic production (again, I say that in many threads here) is THE answer. Not just oil, not just EV....both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Price of the product is $20.00 demand is 4,000 units.
To prevent the depletion of product, you raise the price (to decrease demand to an achievable level) this also means you made more money than you otherwise would have.

Go ahead and put whatever product you want in there and think about the supply, demand and price of that item....

- Mountain Bike, in the summer of 2020, completely sold out at Walmart, but you could find one at ****'s...
****'s didn't raise their prices because wages went up, they raised their price because they understood the (increased) demand and knew the available supply.

View attachment 66515
That just makes too much sense. Well said.

Companies could raise their prices because people are demanding a living wage, companies are offering more to be able to hire more (or better) employees. That needs to happen. There's a mom & pop burger joint in Washington that pays $15 per hour and didn't raise prices. They're actually making money. Raising wages always seems to be one of the many boogeymen that people blame for rising prices. Could it possibly be corporate greed? The shareholders demanding constant growth to pay them more dividends rather than being consistently stable? Look at the gas prices. If it was because oil cost more, then why the record breaking profits of the oil companies? Greed, plain and simple. They know they have us over the literal barrel. What are we going to do, drive EV's? Damn right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Can you believe the audacity of the working classes asking for a wage increase? The NERVE. I mean, I deserve a raise of course, but someone who I deem less worthy than myself or someone who does a job that I would never stoop to doing? They just need to learn to live with less.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
^^^Wouldn't it be nice if it was legal, orderly immigration?
But then who would pick the crops, mow the lawns, do the roofs, do the drywall, cook in the restaurant or raise the 1%'s kids? Surely not Americans. We'd rather shuffle through WalMart in our pajamas and Crocs. If we want to stop illegal immigration, punish the companies that hire them. As long as someone, somewhere will hire them, they'll keep coming illegally. Illegal immigration has more than one culprit. Make it a $5,000 fine per illegal immigrant for the first offense, $10,000 per illegal immigrant for the second offense and corporate dissolution for the third offense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Corporate dissolution is a non-starter. If you make the penalty too extreme, they just shut down, and start again under a new name. Not to mention the punishment actually affecting the innocent (legal) workers more than the owners.
Ok, so it was drastic, but they need to be punished for hiring illegals.
 
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