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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
America Produces Enough Oil to Meet Its Needs, So Why Do We Import Crude?

"NBC News is reporting that the U.S. intends to ban imports of Russian oil today. That has caused another jump in already surging oil prices, but for many Americans the most surprising thing about this is that America imports Russian oil at all, let alone so much that it accounts for around eight percent of total U.S. oil usage. I mean, haven’t we been told repeatedly over the last five years or so how great it is that the U.S. has become energy independent?

Well, yes, we have. But that statement, while true in some ways, covers up several decades of short-sighted energy policies."


Discuss......
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
sad state, but so much of what is done, not just the government, is reactionary instead of proactive.
Very true.

Which is why I think America needs to be the one on the forefront of EV tech, not necessarily to replace ICE's but definitely to be THE country supplying the tech to places that are replacing/outlawing ICE's. That buys us time to switch, we're a pretty large, open and diverse country....for us to switch over is going to take far longer and more advanced tech. Might as well have other countries buy from us to foot the bill to pave the way for our inevitable switch.
 

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Whether we produce our own oil or not doesn't matter, it is a global commodity. Crude isn't going to sell for let's say $75/barrel in the US when customers around the world are willing to pay $125/barrel. Oil companies will look to maximize their profits.

Have a look at the Weekly Petroleum Statistics issued by the EIA, a division of the Dept. of Energy.

EIA

By tomorrow, a weekly update will be issued.

Go to the Crude Oil page (see tab at top). About halfway down, see the Production Data.

We are producing 11.9 million barrels per day (mbd) of crude oil currently, we are importing about 6.4 mbd and exporting about 3.6 mbd.

Now check the Gasoline page.

We are refining about 9.8 mbd of gasoline currently, we are importing about 0.9 mbd and exporting about 0.9 mbd.

Now check the Distillate page (includes diesel fuel and home heating oil).

We are refining about 5.1 mbd of distillate currently, we are importing about 0.2 mbd and exporting about 1.2 mbd.

So there are imports and exports of both crude and refined products. These are probably driven by locale and market opportunities.

Now go back and look at the inventories (stocks) of Crude, Gasoline, and Diesel. They are all below the 5-year average.

These low inventories drive prices higher.
 

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Very true.

Which is why I think America needs to be the one on the forefront of EV tech, not necessarily to replace ICE's but definitely to be THE country supplying the tech to places that are replacing/outlawing ICE's. That buys us time to switch, we're a pretty large, open and diverse country....for us to switch over is going to take far longer and more advanced tech. Might as well have other countries buy from us to foot the bill to pave the way for our inevitable switch.
That’s great if we are also willing to build nuclear powerplants. France and Germany are ahead of us with their green agenda so you can look at both of them for our future results.

France has Nuclear and has kept the cost of electricity about the same. Germany on the other hand has had electric costs soar by comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That’s great if we are also willing to build nuclear powerplants. France and Germany are ahead of us with their green agenda so you can look at both of them for our future results.

France has Nuclear and has kept the cost of electricity about the same. Germany on the other hand has had electric costs soar by comparison.
I ain't skerd no nukyaler powa! My dad helped build the plant in San Onofre, California and it's still working.....just don't ask about the three-eyed dolphins that walk around near the cooling tower outlets.....j/k.
 

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That’s great if we are also willing to build nuclear powerplants. France and Germany are ahead of us with their green agenda so you can look at both of them for our future results.

France has Nuclear and has kept the cost of electricity about the same. Germany on the other hand has had electric costs soar by comparison.
Germany has plans to shut down the last of their nuclear power plants by the end of this year, to be replaced with .... I think they forgot that part. They would HOPE to replace them with some form of "green" energy production, although they won't have any where near the needed green production by then. There's always gas and oil from Russia! Oh, wait....

Whatever happened to that German reputation for logic?
 

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sad state, but so much of what is done, not just the government, is reactionary instead of proactive.
Global issue years in the making. Russia made it much worse. Biden won't make the right moves because his base is anti-oil so he will beg the criminals in Saudi for more oil instead.

Germany has plans to shut down the last of their nuclear power plants by the end of this year, to be replaced with .... I think they forgot that part. They would HOPE to replace them with some form of "green" energy production, although they won't have any where near the needed green production by then. There's always gas and oil from Russia! Oh, wait....Whatever happened to that German reputation for logic?
Germans like most western nations have been taken over by ESG minded people who think oil is dead and we should all be in EVs powered by the wind.

It all defies logic, common sense and most importantly, numbers. Numbers don't lie, peek oil demand won't hit for 15 years!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Global issue years in the making. Russia made it much worse. Biden won't make the right moves because his base is anti-oil so he will beg the criminals in Saudi for more oil instead.



Germans like most western nations have been taken over by ESG minded people who think oil is dead and we should all be in EVs powered by the wind.

It all defies logic, common sense and most importantly, numbers. Numbers don't lie, peek oil demand won't hit for 15 years!
And what pray tell would be "the right moves"? We've increased oil production under Biden, ever so slightly, so I'm not sure that "anti-oil" argument holds.....uh, water. We aren't the only country suffering from lower OPEC production, but around 60% of our oil imports come from Canada so begging OPEC for anything is just scraps. The only thing begging OPEC could accomplish is to increase production to lower per barrel costs which affects the whole world. We only get about 11% of our oil from OPEC.

Yeah, there's some "cart before the horse" going on, but car companies are wanting to go EV, too, as it saves them money in parts/labor/manufacturing, no emissions rules to worry about, and fewer warranty issues/claims.
 

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And what pray tell would be "the right moves"? We've increased oil production under Biden, ever so slightly, so I'm not sure that "anti-oil" argument holds.....uh, water. We aren't the only country suffering from lower OPEC production, but around 60% of our oil imports come from Canada so begging OPEC for anything is just scraps. The only thing begging OPEC could accomplish is to increase production to lower per barrel costs which affects the whole world. We only get about 11% of our oil from OPEC.

Yeah, there's some "cart before the horse" going on, but car companies are wanting to go EV, too, as it saves them money in parts/labor/manufacturing, no emissions rules to worry about, and fewer warranty issues/claims.
OPEC is not to blame here. As of this writing, the world average price of crude oil is about $118/barrel. In June 2008 as we were going into the Global Financial Crisis, crude oil peaked at $187/barrel. In April 2011, crude oil peaked at $148/barrel. Crude oil prices have rapidly come off their COVID-induced lows, but they are nowhere near peak highs.

That said, paying the prices that we pay at the pump are not pleasant. The reasons given are that several refineries are offline due to breakdowns, outdated technology, or failure to restart as COVID shutdowns were canceled.

Whatever the cause of the price hikes and however bad these price hikes are, they are disruptive of our economy and our daily lives. In my lifetime, we have suffered shortages beginning in 1973 with repetitions at inopportune times thereafter. Most of our recessions have been associated with crude oil price hikes and gasoline shortages. One of the signs of insanity is that you keep doing the same thing while hoping for a different result.

The nominal reason for the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 was in retaliation for the West's support of Israel in the Yom Kippur War. Vladimir Putin threatens Western Europe's gas and oil supplies because on NATO support for Ukraine. Fossil fuels gives our adversaries weapons that they can use to threaten us. And then, we whine about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OPEC is not to blame here. As of this writing, the world average price of crude oil is about $118/barrel. In June 2008 as we were going into the Global Financial Crisis, crude oil peaked at $187/barrel. In April 2011, crude oil peaked at $148/barrel. Crude oil prices have rapidly come off their COVID-induced lows, but they are nowhere near peak highs.

That said, paying the prices that we pay at the pump are not pleasant. The reasons given are that several refineries are offline due to breakdowns, outdated technology, or failure to restart as COVID shutdowns were canceled.

Whatever the cause of the price hikes and however bad these price hikes are, they are disruptive of our economy and our daily lives. In my lifetime, we have suffered shortages beginning in 1973 with repetitions at inopportune times thereafter. Most of our recessions have been associated with crude oil price hikes and gasoline shortages. One of the signs of insanity is that you keep doing the same thing while hoping for a different result.

The nominal reason for the Arab Oil Embargo of 1973 was in retaliation for the West's support of Israel in the Yom Kippur War. Vladimir Putin threatens Western Europe's gas and oil supplies because on NATO support for Ukraine. Fossil fuels gives our adversaries weapons that they can use to threaten us. And then, we whine about it.
Totally agree with this post.

Didn't mean to imply that OPEC was to blame, per se.

Oh, I remember gas lines and even/odd days in California when I was a kid. We act as if we are powerless to change, we are not, we are simply too shortsighted and reactionary to take action BEFORE problems arise. Having ICE's and EV's at the same time (which we do now and will most likely continue to do for the foreseeable future) could help with the hills and valleys of oil prices.
 

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Germany has plans to shut down the last of their nuclear power plants by the end of this year, to be replaced with .... I think they forgot that part. They would HOPE to replace them with some form of "green" energy production, although they won't have any where near the needed green production by then. There's always gas and oil from Russia! Oh, wait....

Whatever happened to that German reputation for logic?
They traded any of what remains for Feelgood Vibes. Their military is in disarray and probably wouldn't put up as much a fight as the Ukes, now they won't have no lektrik juice. And they're not Neanderthals, so they can't just vanish into the forests and live off the fat of the land.

Global issue years in the making. Russia made it much worse. Biden won't make the right moves because his base is anti-oil so he will beg the criminals in Saudi for more oil instead.



Germans like most western nations have been taken over by ESG minded people who think oil is dead and we should all be in EVs powered by the wind.

It all defies logic, common sense and most importantly, numbers. Numbers don't lie, peek oil demand won't hit for 15 years!
Those types specialize in infiltrating and eventually taking over organizations. They're very good at what they do. It's just that every nation they run is a disaster area, at least for the stinky smelly rotten peasants.
Meanwhile Xoe has stated many times he wants the petrol industry to be put out of business. No one with half a brain could advocate for that.
I'm still waiting for Lektrik Air Force Won to get rolled out. And though I come from a long-lived line, I don't think I'll be around when that happens.
1a. Because that won't happen, until some laws of physics are set aside.
 

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And what pray tell would be "the right moves"? We've increased oil production under Biden, ever so slightly, so I'm not sure that "anti-oil" argument holds.....uh, water. We aren't the only country suffering from lower OPEC production, but around 60% of our oil imports come from Canada so begging OPEC for anything is just scraps. The only thing begging OPEC could accomplish is to increase production to lower per barrel costs which affects the whole world. We only get about 11% of our oil from OPEC.
Some of this global oil issue today stems from the collapse in oil prices during Covid - no doubt. E&P expenditures collapsed and capacity did also. One of the presidents first moves when he took office was to kill Keystone XL which would have helped move 800,000+ barrels a day oil from Alberta. Just dumb, but that was a promise to the base. North America has all the oil it needs but instead of a pipeline, US still imports from middle east and apparently still Russia indirectly. Terrible.

This is a global issue but the US needs to take a leadership role in admitting we will need oil for a long time still. That will require incentives and easing of regulations, not just words telling oil companies to cut their prices. These things will not happen because of the commitments to climate change. Mark my words - we could see an energy crisis in the near future and it won't be pretty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Some of this global oil issue today stems from the collapse in oil prices during Covid - no doubt. E&P expenditures collapsed and capacity did also. One of the presidents first moves when he took office was to kill Keystone XL which would have helped move 800,000+ barrels a day oil from Alberta. Just dumb, but that was a promise to the base. North America has all the oil it needs but instead of a pipeline, US still imports from middle east and apparently still Russia indirectly. Terrible.

This is a global issue but the US needs to take a leadership role in admitting we will need oil for a long time still. That will require incentives and easing of regulations, not just words telling oil companies to cut their prices. These things will not happen because of the commitments to climate change. Mark my words - we could see an energy crisis in the near future and it won't be pretty.
Keystone is only 8% complete, it wouldn't have helped by now if it had continued because it would still be being built, but that's irrelevant now. The oil that was going to be sent via the Keystone is now sent via rail and tanker so it still gets here, just not as easily. Our oil isn't what we turn into gasoline so it wouldn't help unless they redid all of our refineries. It's the wrong grade for gasoline production.

You see, the U.S. does produce enough oil to meet its own needs, but it is the wrong type of oil. Crude is graded according to two main metrics, weight and sweetness. The weight of oil defines how easy it is to refine, or break down into its usable component parts, such as gasoline, jet fuel and diesel. Light crude is the easiest to handle, heavy is the most difficult, with intermediate obviously somewhere in between. The sweetness refers to the sulfur content of unrefined oil. The sweeter it is, the less sulfur it contains. Most of the oil produced in the U.S. fields in Texas, Oklahoma, and elsewhere is light and sweet, compared to what comes from the Middle East and Russia. The problem is that for many years, imported oil met most of the U.S.’s energy needs, so a large percentage of the refining capacity here is geared towards dealing with oil that is heavier and less sweet than the kind produced here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Oh, and not that I'm a fan, but Biden has issued more permits for drilling on public lands than Trump did. I'm not a fan of Biden (or Trump), just taking the political angle out of it all and trying to post facts, not hyperbole/Facebook posts/rumor/hysteria.
 

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You might want to look at the Weekly Petroleum statistics issued today. It describes the amount of oil that is being produced and exported. It also discusses that dynamics of moving oil and products from where it is produced to where it is consumed.

Updated EIA

(Also, see Post #4).

Here is the first line in the Analysis:

"U.S. exports of crude oil and petroleum products reached a record of 9.8 million barrels per day (b/d) during the week of May 27 (based on a four-week rolling average)".
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You might want to look at the Weekly Petroleum statistics issued today. It describes the amount of oil that is being produced and exported. It also discusses that dynamics of moving oil and products from where it is produced to where it is consumed.

Updated EIA

(Also, see Post #4).

Here is the first line in the Analysis:

"U.S. exports of crude oil and petroleum products reached a record of 9.8 million barrels per day (b/d) during the week of May 27 (based on a four-week rolling average)".
See, that's another thing I don't get. If we're feeling pinched at the pump due to supply issues, why are we exporting gasoline? The geo-political angle on petroleum is just insane.
 

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I ain't skerd no nukyaler powa! My dad helped build the plant in San Onofre, California and it's still working.....just don't ask about the three-eyed dolphins that walk around near the cooling tower outlets.....j/k.
They scare me a little but mostly because I don’t know much about them and the waste is a concern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
They scare me a little but mostly because I don’t know much about them and the waste is a concern.
Well....there is that. One is being decommissioned near Omaha, seems ok so far. LOL They removed the fuel rods 6 years ago. The floods of 2011 caused a fire there and shut down cooling for about 90 minutes, which is a big deal when it comes to nuclear power. OPPD decided against keeping it open in 2017 and started the tear down.

Water Natural landscape Urban design Landscape Waterway
 

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Most likely it's like from wha
See, that's another thing I don't get. If we're feeling pinched at the pump due to supply issues, why are we exporting gasoline? The geo-political angle on petroleum is just insane.
From what I've heard it's that they can get more for it by doing that...and they are after all in the business to make money.
 
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