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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Honda sells its Accord Euro in Europe and other markets with a range of four-cylinder engines including two petrol units displacing 2.0 and 2.4L, respectively, as well as a 2.2L four-cylinder i-DTEC turbodiesel engine. The same car is set to go on sale in the U.S. as the Acura TSX but in the world’s biggest car market the new model is only available with a 201hp 2.4L petrol engine.

Honda will sell a diesel version of new Acura TSX next year complete with the latest 2.2L i-DTEC turbodiesel. Developed in conjunction with German auto parts supplier Robert Bosch, the new engine fitted in the Accord Euro returns a fuel economy rating of 54mpg on the highway, 34mpg around town, and 44mpg for the mixed cycle.

The car is no performance slouch either, as its turbocharged engine delivers a peak output of 140hp and 250lb-ft of torque. The engine meets all 50-state emissions laws in the U.S. and it doesn’t require owners to replace its filtering system with urea like some rival clean-diesel models. Honda’s patented pollution system generates its own ammonia to fulfill the same mission.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/sedans/acura-tsx-to-receive-44mpg-diesel-engine

 

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So even though its extremely ugly and not the most compelling sport sedan. And from the reviews and peoples comments on the views there isn't much reason to buy it over the Accord. Well until now, that will sell like hot cakes.
 

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The door is wide open for GM to introduce their diesels to the US market. Let's not do another "late to the party" stunt if GM doesn't intro their diesels until something like 2013. I sure hope they have stuff on the planning boards for a 2010/2011 debut.
 

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This appears to be a British site. If so, it probably is using Imperial gallons. If it is, it would translate to 45 miles per U.S. gallon. (A U.S. gallon is 83% of an Imperial gallon.)
 

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That's close to double the fuel economy of the regular TSX and accord. I hope their isn't too much of a price hike.
 

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This appears to be a British site. If so, it probably is using Imperial gallons. If it is, it would translate to 45 miles per U.S. gallon. (A U.S. gallon is 83% of an Imperial gallon.)
I would think you're right considering in real world testing the new Honda diesel got 34mpg in mixed driving in the, even smaller Civic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
This appears to be a British site. If so, it probably is using Imperial gallons. If it is, it would translate to 45 miles per U.S. gallon. (A U.S. gallon is 83% of an Imperial gallon.)
Motor Authority is an American site. Those are American numbers. The British imperial gallon units are higher. (highway mileage = 61.4mpg, city mileage = 39mpg)



Real World Testing in America

As with other diesels I’ve driven recently, the Honda’s frugal highway mileage and versatile power are important advantages over the typical hybrid. The Accord covered the zero-to-60 run in just under 9 seconds in my testing, which doesn’t sound spectacular on paper. But its passing power from 30, 50 or even 70 miles an hour was terrific, as the Honda easily shot past slower cars.

And as more hybrid owners are discovering, their cars deliver little or no mileage gain on the highway. That’s because battery packs and electric motors add several hundred pounds, and the system also contributes negligible energy at freeway speeds.

Also unlike hybrids, which require drivers to go easy on the gas pedal, watch the speed limit and coast when possible to improve the mileage, the diesel Honda delivered brilliant economy with no special effort. Even spirited driving didn’t dent the mileage much. The Accord delivered 50 m.p.g. even during a 75-m.p.h. cruise and 40 m.p.g. when I flogged it like a Nascar yahoo.

The Acura’s only diesel telltale is an idle that’s slightly louder than a gasoline car’s, though it’s not at all obtrusive. There was no trace of diesel smell or black exhaust and except for the enormous diesel decal on the car’s side, my passengers would have been unaware that a diesel was under the hood.
 

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Check post above. In real world driving, it got 44mpg.
We already discussed this guy before and it seems he does the typical local car report that we all see in our Sunday paper. Those glowing reports that never even hint at anything realistic and carry on about how fantastic every car is that they write about. They have to keep the local dealers happy by giving glowing reviews on everything they report on so the local dealers will continue to supply them with cars to write about which, in turn, keeps them in a gravy job.
 

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Does the MPG advantage of a diesel justify the add'l price of motor and the fuel (last seen by me at $4.99/gal here in the Chicago burbs)? Seems unlikely to me but I haven't run the numbers.
 

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There is nothing definite about these numbers. They are NOT the official EPA values just road test numbers. VW just ran into the same mess with the new Jetta. The EPA numbers fell a leetle short of expectations. To be revisted soon.

Price-wise it's going to be a premium vehicle, using high-priced fuel. I'm guessing that they have very very modest expectations for it.
 

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With diesel supplies already tight, I wonder how much of an impact all these new diesels will have on the cost of the fuel. What good is 50mpg if diesel costs $7.00/gal
 

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I'll go the other way.

Whatever else can be said, Honda appears to have a winner on their hands - if they employ it properly AND that self gen emissions system holds up - in the USA.

The best of BMW, VW/AUDI, and MB are/maybe even better but noooo, everybody in Europe ALSO sits there with their thumbs up their ass as Honda, good 'ole antidiesel - late to the game Honda, prepares to go sailing by.

This should also go into the RDX ASAP ie faster than currently 'indicated'.

*************************************************

This illustrates two great universal truths concerning the current American automotive scene;

1. ) America's completely uncoordinated energy/environmental/safety automotive 'programs' and especially those concerning diesel/ Bio diesel are costing us big time - right now.

2. ) The currently fashionable 'conversation' to bemoan previously discontinued efforts concerning electric and battery electric hybrid programs is a case of second best not first.

This is a universal, industry wide phenomenon - talk about not gettin' it......

To illustrate, just really consider the following;

The really big opportunity in this market missed by virtually all of them was an intelligent 2.0L I4/3.0LV6 TURBO DIESEL contingency program that was deploy able from February 2008 forward.

I don't care who you like or who you work for or what you believe the future really holds for powertrains in general - or even if you dislike diesel - think like a profit oriented businessman - just go ahead - take your favorite brand or division or whatever and arm them with those two sizes of diesel - and figure what that would really mean -RIGHT NOW - including charging a decent premium and netting a decent profit.

Whatever you want to say about it, it sure as hell would've been better than what we got now - for any of 'em.

Still don't get it ????

Do I really need to point out that people are paying 5 -10 k for ratty old small cars that get decent fuel economy - which represents approx a 4,500 to

5,000$ plus premium - for vehicles like a beat up 10 year old Geo Metro ?????

CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF GROUP THINK - with poor contingency planning and no feel for the market and its likely response.


Its not just about our domestics who seriously need a leg up NOW and would've benefited the most with something like this.

Toyota and Honda could've salvaged a large number of their very different big vehicle programs - although a modern 4.0L V8 modular addition would've knocked it out of the park for Toyota - or really anyone but Honda.

And don't tell me that it wasn't feasible - see Cummins 'clean' 6.75L I6 time line - add a little money - and don't try and tell me that would've been too much - 2 -7% of whats been pissed away on electric battery hybridization would've covered it.

Thats the out of the box thinking they all missed as far as SENSIBLE contingency plans go - plans that would've made sense going forward - whether used right now or not.

Massive FAIL

BY ALL OF THEM

INCLUDING VW AND HONDA

PERIOD
 

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SURE - just like the Jetta was getting a 60mpg Diesel ..

reality: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=25317

And as much as I love Diesel cars (the VW Jetta TDI SportWagen is 99% exactly what I want in my next car) - with gas at $4.05 and diesel at $5.40 (in Philly) - the advantage of the Diesel completely disappear - if the two get closer in price - look for a while Jetta Wagon TDI in my driveway.

Igor
 

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Motor Authority is an American site. Those are American numbers. The British imperial gallon units are higher. (highway mileage = 61.4mpg, city mileage = 39mpg)
see my post above .... the VW 2.0l TDI was t get at least 55 or 60 mpg - it was regurgitated over and over in all media .. the reality? 30/41 ...


Igor
 

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see my post above .... the VW 2.0l TDI was t get at least 55 or 60 mpg - it was regurgitated over and over in all media .. the reality? 30/41 ...


Igor
First, work on your math skills and your cost to own model - widen out your range of possible outcomes to include a bigger piece of whats likely.

Second, ask yourself this, is a VW diesel that pulls down 10-20- 25% better than EPA for many - some to most of time more desirable than say something HSD equipped that goes the other way - and is going to require battery and battery related replacements that cost thousands of dollars at some point in their operational life - unless you like throwing cars away at the 8 -12 year mark.

An informed guess - subject to verification is that at least a usable part of the difference between the projected numbers here for VW and Honda's larger engine is due to VW's current test and reporting method, - yea its dumb on their part but it is what it is and irregardless ( for both - for all ) we know that the 'EPA' method for diesels contains an extra severe correction factor that they themselves indicate contains approx an 18% underestimation ERROR - WITH A DATA BASE OF EXACTLY ONE VEHICLE FOR COMPARISON.
 

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First, work on your math skills and your cost to own model - widen out your range of possible outcomes to include a bigger piece of whats likely.

Second, ask yourself this, is a VW diesel that pulls down 10-20% better than EPA for many/most of time more desirable than say something HSD equipped that goes the other way - and is going to require battery and battery related replacements that cost thousands of dollars at some point in their operational life - unless you like throwing cars away at the 8 -12 year mark.
I am not a hybrid person - and ICE is enough technology for me ....

what I am saying is that there is NO WAY the TSX will get 54mpg on EPA's test - and at the end of the day - that is all that matters.

I recently test drove the Ford Edge - I got 33mpg on a relaxed highway driving - but it was 55-60mpg relaxed and simply ideal MPG situation.

I have driven enough car to know that surpassing EPA in a real world situation does not happen. Sure you can sustain some impressive HWY mileage for say an hour - but by the time you have to fill up - you drop back to +-EPA or lower. At least I do.

I love diesels - as I said - however I will not buy one if I am looking to pay more at the pump than with a regular I4 or I5 car.

However - that - is bedsides my key point, which was that 54mpg EPA will NOT happen - and that is all I care about and all the buyers care about.

Igor
 
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