[jlmartin99]

I would find it extremely ironic if we both ended up with XF's. :zippy:
As I'm still 2 years out... I'm going to keep my eye on the CTS MCE... I still need to make my way to the Jaguar dealership though to check out the XF extensively.

Hi mgescuro,

I would recommend a visit to your Jaguar dealership. Do not get me wrong here, I concluded based on my NYIAS visit and Jaguar dealership review of the XK and XF, Cadillac remains as my first preference in the STS and XLR. That said, Jaguar clearly has replaced, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus as luxury brands based on my requirements.

My buddy on the other hand has Jaguar as his luxury preference in the XKR Coupe luxury performance sports car of choice. He is only trying to decide on color and features and time of purchase.

JLM

 

[mgescuro]

I would recommend a visit to your Jaguar dealership. Do not get me wrong here, I concluded based on my NYIAS visit and Jaguar dealership review of the XK and XF, Cadillac remains as my first preference in the STS and XLR. That said, Jaguar clearly has replaced, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus as luxury brands based on my requirements.

My buddy on the other hand has Jaguar as his luxury preference in the XKR Coupe luxury performance sports car of choice. He is only trying to decide on color and features and time of purchase.

I was planning on going yesterday, but I got caught up in other things. So I was planning on going today. But I have friends dropping by this afternoon, so I can't go. Perhaps next week, I'll get a chance to drop by British Motors.

My biggest concern with the XF was its exterior styling. It wasn't coming through in pics -- much the same the CTS was. When I went to the SFIAS last November, I stood in front of a grey-purple XF (Pearl Grey). And that sold me. It was sleek. It was luxurious. It was modern. It was everything a modern interpretation of a Jaguar should and could be. :yup:

I just need to drive it at this point.

 

[jlmartin99]

I was planning on going yesterday, but I got caught up in other things. So I was planning on going today. But I have friends dropping by this afternoon, so I can't go. Perhaps next week, I'll get a chance to drop by British Motors.

My biggest concern with the XF was its exterior styling. It wasn't coming through in pics -- much the same the CTS was. When I went to the SFIAS last November, I stood in front of a grey-purple XF (Pearl Grey). And that sold me. It was sleek. It was luxurious. It was modern. It was everything a modern interpretation of a Jaguar should and could be. :yup:

I just need to drive it at this point.

mgescuro,

I do believe you have expressed my impression exactly of Jaguar's new design language. Both the XF and XK have lines, style, design, performance, features and ride quality that create a unique Jaguar experience. That is what impressed me the most about the new Jags. They are every bit new in their design, not retro, fresh and I would say exotic as only Jaguar car style and design can. Elegant luxury sport is how I would characterize Jaguar’s new design language in the XF and XK.

In my experience to date, Jaguar has found their design "Mojo". Just as strongly as Cadillac has found theirs in the Art and Science and the Evoq concept. I will be interested in your review once you have a chance.

From my view, I applaud Jaguar’s new designs with as much enthusiasm as I do with Cadillac. For my taste, I now have two truly superb design themes that create a sense of style that is excellent but yet different.

JLM

 

[jlmartin99]

I was planning on going yesterday, but I got caught up in other things. So I was planning on going today. But I have friends dropping by this afternoon, so I can't go. Perhaps next week, I'll get a chance to drop by British Motors.

My biggest concern with the XF was its exterior styling. It wasn't coming through in pics -- much the same the CTS was. When I went to the SFIAS last November, I stood in front of a grey-purple XF (Pearl Grey). And that sold me. It was sleek. It was luxurious. It was modern. It was everything a modern interpretation of a Jaguar should and could be. :yup:

I just need to drive it at this point.

mgescuro,

I responded in a previous note in regard to my impression and review of Jaguar’s new design language in the XF and XK and I remain very impressed. However, I wanted to add an impression from a style and design perspective where I wanted more of the XF Concept design deployed into the XF production model. Where I was somewhat disappointed, is with the styling of the front end. Though I like the final production in general, it is not as sharp or as crisp as the XF concept, which impressed me so much. It was softened for the production XF model, which for me reduced the styling impact and dramatic expressive design language that creates the new edge for this Jaguar sedan.

This has not negatively impacted my impression or rankling of Jaguar as my second luxury brand for design following Cadillac. But I wondered if the design of the XF Concept had translated more to the production model in this regard, it would have made it a more difficult decision for me to remain with Cadillac’s STS and XLR. Yet I am very impressed with what Jaguar has created in the new XF and XK.

Again once you have a chance to review the XF, I would be interested in your assessment.

JLM

 

[mgescuro]

Where I was somewhat disappointed, is with the styling of the front end. Though I like the final production in general, it is not as sharp or as crisp as the XF concept, which impressed me so much. It was softened for the production XF model, which for me reduced the styling impact and dramatic expressive design language that creates the new edge for this Jaguar sedan.

This has not negatively impacted my impression or rankling of Jaguar as my second luxury brand for design following Cadillac. But I wondered if the design of the XF Concept had translated more to the production model in this regard, it would have made it a more difficult decision for me to remain with Cadillac’s STS and XLR. Yet I am very impressed with what Jaguar has created in the new XF and XK.

Actually, we're in agreement here. That's why I wanted to at least see one in person. XF and CTS's respective design elements did not come through in their respective photo spreads. CTS looked quite rear heavy. And XF looked a bit dull.

However in person, the cars came off quite well. And I was happy about that.

I also agree with the impression of the XF's front end. However, I'm not really bothered by it. Jaguars have always exuded refined style and grace, which this XF does quite well. It doesn't necessarily need that high impact slap-in-the-face design that Cadillac is relying on and has traditionally relied on. That's why I believe the XF still works well, even without the high impact design. It's true to its heritage.

Word on the street is the XJ will be a "high impact" car with a wow factor higher than the XF-C.

 

[jlmartin99]

Actually, we're in agreement here. That's why I wanted to at least see one in person. XF and CTS's respective design elements did not come through in their respective photo spreads. CTS looked quite rear heavy. And XF looked a bit dull.

However in person, the cars came off quite well. And I was happy about that.

I also agree with the impression of the XF's front end. However, I'm not really bothered by it. Jaguars have always exuded refined style and grace, which this XF does quite well. It doesn't necessarily need that high impact slap-in-the-face design that Cadillac is relying on and has traditionally relied on. That's why I believe the XF still works well, even without the high impact design. It's true to its heritage.

Word on the street is the XJ will be a "high impact" car with a wow factor higher than the XF-C.

mgescuro,

Yes, the design theme of Jaguar is much more subtle and is not as aggressive as Cadillac‘s Art and Science design theme. But in my view that is Jaguar’s attractiveness in their design when contrasted with Cadillac’s design.

JLM

 

[AG3]

Re: A Proper Comparo: Jag XF vs Caddy CTS

THe problem is that the CTS tops out where the midlevel begins on every single one of its competitors begins. Then there's this huge gap from top end CTS to performance.

Looks like the engine lineup of the CTS matches well with the smaller imported premium sedans like the 3-series, C-class and IS.
Top engine for the regular model is a V6, with the V8 reserved for the sporty high performance model.

 

[mgescuro]

Re: A Proper Comparo: Jag XF vs Caddy CTS

Looks like the engine lineup of the CTS matches well with the smaller imported premium sedans like the 3-series, C-class and IS.
Top engine for the regular model is a V6, with the V8 reserved for the sporty high performance model.

Yes.... and then the performance series is geared towards the E55 and M5.
There is a discontinuity in what the CTS is supposed to be representing.

CTS is also far too large to compete with 3, C, and IS. And it's identical in size to the 5-series.

 

[TriShield]

Two losers fight and neither one wins.

What exactly is there to brag about here?

 

[jlmartin99]

Two losers fight and neither one wins.

What exactly is there to brag about here?

TriShield,

From my perspective, it is style and design that elevates these two luxury brands above all others today. And I would suggest Cadillac and Jaguar have taken their design language beyond the comparative luxury brands, such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW or Lexus. It is a matter of personal taste of the luxury buyer and what they value and what value they place on style and design. For my taste today Cadillac and Jaguar are my two favorite luxury car designers above all others with Cadillac offering the most compelling designs to date.

JLM

 

[ChevroletRevived]

TriShield,

From my perspective, it is style and design that elevates theses two luxury brands above all others today. And I would suggest Cadillac and Jaguar have taken their design language beyond the comparative luxury brands, such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW or Lexus. It is a matter of personal taste of the luxury buyer and what they value and what value they place on style and design. For my taste today Cadillac and Jaguar are my two favorite luxury car designers above all others with Cadillac offering the most compelling designs to date.

JLM

I agree I think they both did an incredible job on these two vehicles. The first pictures of the XF did not look good in my opinion, but after I saw more and when the real life pictures of the car came out, I really liked it. My favorite of the two is the CTS, but I would love to have either one of them. If it was my own money I'd certainly go with the CTS. I'm very impressed with both cars. :yup:

 

[eaton53]

Two losers fight and neither one wins.

What exactly is there to brag about here?

I fail to see how the CTS is a loser. It's one of the classes' top sellers and has fared well in other comparos.
On the other hand, Jaguars have not set the world on fire.

 

[jlmartin99]

I fail to see how the CTS is a loser. It's one of the classes' top sellers and has fared well in other comparos.
On the other hand, Jaguars have not set the world on fire.

eaton53,

Cadillac's CTS first generation and second generation are extremely positive for Cadillac in terms of design and sales. But more important in my view is the improvements made with the second generation CTS. This new CTS model could have been very safe in its design, which generally happens when a car brand has success with a style or design. In this case with Cadillac's CTS, Cadillac and its designers pushed the envelope once again and the new CTS is stunning. And shortly the CTS-V and later the CTS Coupe. I am so impressed with Cadillac's future plans for this model. I believe Jaguar's XF and XK will perform the same impact for Jaguar as the XLR and CTS has performed for Cadillac.

JLM

 

[eaton53]

JLM,
I saw the CTS-V in Chicago and it was amazing.

I know the purists hate to hear this, but IMO the biggest difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 V is the addition of an automatic transmission. The audience for the car will be much wider.

 

[jlmartin99]

JLM,
I saw the CTS-V in Chicago and it was amazing.

I know the purists hate to hear this, but IMO the biggest difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 V is the addition of an automatic transmission. The audience for the car will be much wider.

eaton53,

Yes again I agree with you and an additional feature is MRC (Magnetic Ride Control) of which almost all high end performance luxury performance cars are implementing in some form or another in addition to Cadillac. The new CTS-V incorporates the second generation MCR system. Both the auto transmission and MRC enhance the appeal to performance luxury buyers such as myself. The option at having both a manual and automatic transmission is fantastic with MRC.

I have not test driven the new CTS-V and would suspect that it will be nearly impossible in the first year of production. All I can say is I was very impressed with the specifications and style and design of Cadillac's CTS-V.

JLM

 

[PAULSTS1]

First of all it is requested that you completely overlook my previous post on this topic of comparison between the Cadillac CTS and the Jaguar XF. This appeal has been made because I have only recently been able to make an up close and personal evaluation of both cars, au natural. The experience was eye-opening, enlightening, and perception enhancing.

First: Cadillac CTS: The modern interpretation of Cadillac’s Sports Luxury car from the perspective of an STS owner is that the cabin is a bit snug. The upright seating position is not the most comfortable I have experienced during my multi vehicle evaluation (kudos in that regard would go to the Volvo S80). I don’t see the CTS winning a lot of praise from traditional Cadillac owners based upon the interior packaging.

Performance of the DI 3.6 V6 is satisfactory, neither as refined or powerful feeling (torque) as from the Northstar V8, but I concede it may be acceptable to owners of Asian or European midsized sedans, or persons of more diminutive stature. There exists perceptible NVH, in the drive train operation, that I am convinced will be eventually ignored by an owner over time.

What impressed me was the styling, and interior materials used, this was the first Cadillac in a long time to excel at the effort to make the interior luxurious. The feel of the switchgear could be improved, but to be fair for a car priced similarly to the Nissan Maxima, it rocks, freshly out. I give it 3 out of 5 possible stars.

The Jaguar XF is the more recent effort in this comparo, it represents a bold departure from the traditional styling mold of Jaguar. The cabin is luxurious and comfortable, and exuded that old fashioned British charm and aroma, in a contempory body. The switchgear was done with high quality materials, and appeared durable. I would not have felt cheated in this cabin as a daily driver.

Performance of the 4.2 normally aspirated V8 was adequate though at 300 Hp, could have used more power (the XF felt quite heavy). I did later discover that Jaguar has plans to replace the 4.2 with a 5.0 special duty engine as a running change shortly. The engine as tested was velvety smooth, and was supremely hushed; any luxury buyer would not find it objectionable.

While I liked the styling, I don’t know if it’s just because it is new and fresh or how the styling will weather over time? Perhaps here is where the previous S Type may provide some advantage, it still looks dignified.

Comparisons: First off is the Price, at about 38000, the CTS is impossible to beat, and definitely is the better buy over the $57,000 XF. The XF does offer more luxury and amenities, but for almost a $20000 premium. That stratospheric statistic removes the XF from favorably comparing with the CTS. I felt the XF is better comparable to the STS, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, and Volvo S80. I rated the XF also 3 stars. One point was deducted for the lofty cost this is what kept the XF from winning a decisive victory over the CTS.

What do you think of this Camparo?

:drive:

 

[jlmartin99]

First of all it is requested that you completely overlook my previous post on this topic of comparison between the Cadillac CTS and the Jaguar XF. This appeal has been made because I have only recently been able to make an up close and personal evaluation of both cars, au natural. The experience was eye-opening, enlightening, and perception enhancing.

First: Cadillac CTS: The modern interpretation of Cadillac’s Sports Luxury car from the perspective of an STS owner is that the cabin is a bit snug. The upright seating position is not the most comfortable I have experienced during my multi vehicle evaluation (kudos in that regard would go to the Volvo S80). I don’t see the CTS winning a lot of praise from traditional Cadillac owners based upon the interior packaging.

Performance of the DI 3.6 V6 is satisfactory, neither as refined or powerful feeling (torque) as from the Northstar V8, but I concede it may be acceptable to owners of Asian or European midsized sedans, or persons of more diminutive stature. There exists perceptible NVH, in the drive train operation, that I am convinced will be eventually ignored by an owner over time.

What impressed me was the styling, and interior materials used, this was the first Cadillac in a long time to excel at the effort to make the interior luxurious. The feel of the switchgear could be improved, but to be fair for a car priced similarly to the Nissan Maxima, it rocks, freshly out. I give it 3 out of 5 possible stars.

The Jaguar XF is the more recent effort in this comparo, it represents a bold departure from the traditional styling mold of Jaguar. The cabin is luxurious and comfortable, and exuded that old fashioned British charm and aroma, in a contempory body. The switchgear was done with high quality materials, and appeared durable. I would not have felt cheated in this cabin as a daily driver.

Performance of the 4.2 normally aspirated V8 was adequate though at 300 Hp, could have used more power (the XF felt quite heavy). I did later discover that Jaguar has plans to replace the 4.2 with a 5.0 special duty engine as a running change shortly. The engine as tested was velvety smooth, and was supremely hushed; any luxury buyer would not find it objectionable.

While I liked the styling, I don’t know if it’s just because it is new and fresh or how the styling will weather over time? Perhaps here is where the previous S Type may provide some advantage, it still looks dignified.

Comparisons: First off is the Price, at about 38000, the CTS is impossible to beat, and definitely is the better buy over the $57,000 XF. The XF does offer more luxury and amenities, but for almost a $20000 premium. That stratospheric statistic removes the XF from favorably comparing with the CTS. I felt the XF is better comparable to the STS, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, and Volvo S80. I rated the XF also 3 stars. One point was deducted for the lofty cost this is what kept the XF from winning a decisive victory over the CTS.

What do you think of this Camparo?

:drive:

Greetings PAULSTS1,

I like your review and agree with many of your points. From a comparison perspective, I only compared Cadillac's CTS from a style perspective. The Jaguar XF is featured and rides more in segment with the Cadillac STS /STS-V.

There is so much I appreciate about Cadillac's new CTS from a style and design perspective, that at times it overshadows some of the features I have come to appreciate in Cadillac’s STS.

What impresses me most about Jaguar's XF style and design, it is not retro in the least. I was not a huge fan of the S Type style and design when compared to the new XF. This new design language for Jaguar has been needed for years. In my view, it will transform Jaguar into the modern seductive luxury brand that exemplifies Jaguar's feel and textures of materials.

For my taste, Cadillac and Jaguar have taken the lead in style and design in the segment of performance luxury premium mid size sedan and luxury performance sports car. Cadillac's CTS/CTS-V, STS/STS-V, XLR/XLR-V and Jaguar's XF/XF Supercharge, XK/XKR appeal to me the most today. Other luxury brands have some very engaging designs, such as Audi and BMW, but they simply are not as compelling as Cadillac and Jaguar to my eyes.

Cadillac remains my first preference for luxury car purchase, but clearly I now have an alternate in Jaguar.

JLM

 

[mgescuro]

The Jaguar XF is the more recent effort in this comparo, it represents a bold departure from the traditional styling mold of Jaguar. The cabin is luxurious and comfortable, and exuded that old fashioned British charm and aroma, in a contempory body. The switchgear was done with high quality materials, and appeared durable. I would not have felt cheated in this cabin as a daily driver.

Performance of the 4.2 normally aspirated V8 was adequate though at 300 Hp, could have used more power (the XF felt quite heavy). I did later discover that Jaguar has plans to replace the 4.2 with a 5.0 special duty engine as a running change shortly. The engine as tested was velvety smooth, and was supremely hushed; any luxury buyer would not find it objectionable.

While I liked the styling, I don’t know if it’s just because it is new and fresh or how the styling will weather over time? Perhaps here is where the previous S Type may provide some advantage, it still looks dignified.

Comparisons: First off is the Price, at about 38000, the CTS is impossible to beat, and definitely is the better buy over the $57,000 XF. The XF does offer more luxury and amenities, but for almost a $20000 premium. That stratospheric statistic removes the XF from favorably comparing with the CTS. I felt the XF is better comparable to the STS, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, and Volvo S80. I rated the XF also 3 stars. One point was deducted for the lofty cost this is what kept the XF from winning a decisive victory over the CTS.

Oh Paul Paul Paul....
I spent the afternoon at the Jaguar Dealership in San Francisco. And after a good 40 minute test drive among the twists and turns and a really blind Buick Park Avenue driver darting out of her garage (XF has a loud horn).... I can say the XF is more than a match for CTS. And I must re-iterate... CTS just isn't in this class of vehicle!!!

Yes, the V8 is supremely hushed, and there's just enough growl to let you know the cat can run when needed. I started in Sport Mode when it was my turn to drive. I simply wasn't ready for the amount of power that was at my command. The numbers might say 300HP... but it feels like 380HP. That's the truth.
The brakes will haul the car down 60-0 in short order. You can feel it when you touch it.

Oh.. and another thing... the Bowers-Wilkins audio system. I've never experienced an audio system with an audio stage quite like this in a car!!! I hold a great deal of respect for the Lexus Mark-Levinson system. I feel the STS Bose system is a tad better than the M-L system. And the B&O system in the Audi is quite impressive as well. But these systems don't hold a candle to the B-W system in the XF!!!!!!!!!

Is the XF worth $20,000 over a fully loaded CTS?? ABSO-FRIGGIN-LUTELY!!!!
Then again, the CTS isn't squarely competitive in this market segment as of this date!! And it is sorely lacking some basics that are a necessity in this segment. Cadillac has a lot of work to do.
There is no doubt in my mind that CTS needs the full luxury of the STS without STS's missteps in order to be competitive here.

Plus the service and attention I got at British Motors of SF was heads and shoulders and simply light years better than anything I've gotten from these Chevy-Cadillac combo dealerships.

I will post a more detailed review later.
As much as it pains me to leave GM, after a long history with them, I have found my next car purchase. And it isn't the Cadillac I've always dreamed of owning.

Jaguar has got a BIG winner here.

 

[PAULSTS1]

Weekend Salutations Mgescuro:

I did try to be fair in my comparison post. I never felt the CTS and the XF were true competitors. Because of the features, amenities, powerplant choices, the XF is a more highly evolved entity. I have assigned almost "life like" qualities to it as it conveys, the personality that Cadillacs of old used to have.

Mentioning the engine response please remember I own 2 Northstar powered STS models the tester XF was brand new and not yet "broken in." Also the news that Jaguar will be replacing the 4.2 V8 for a larger displacement engine (5.0 SD) does sorta indicate the factory believes a tweak might be necessary to bolster the "feline image." My test route was virtual straightaways, on good streets, I would have been interested to try it out on cobblestones, and potholes.

The only area I failed to test was the audio system, mainly because I seem to use mine for Talk Radio. When I have an occassional passenger, they always criticize me for not using the audio system to play music. I was out with a model whom happened to be carrying a new CD in her purse, She asked me to play rhe CD on my Bose systemt. When I did , she almost went into a spontaneous orgasm when the music queued up. One of my friends has the Mark Levinson system in his Lexus and classical music sounds great, however not as good as the 5.1 Dolby surround in my newer STS, though.:yup:

What I may have failed to mention is that I too loved the Jaguar XF, however because my personal driving has become rather limited these days, I can afford to wait out the market, and may do so until Fall.

In your more detailed review, please elaborate on your color vs interior palet choices. I found that I gravitate towards the Blues, either Midnight or custom order Azure Blue.

I am waiting for your full review.

:drive:


.

 

[asrapid]

When new 5.0 l v8 comes (i hope it will have more then 380 hp because some rivals already have more power than this) will V8 4.2 l be retired?. I mean Jaguar then will have v8 with 380+ hp and v6 with 240 hp which is not enough and there is too much gap between it.Is there any plans for upgrading V6.
Cadillac should really offer engine with 400+HP in their CTS lineup (something below V).