[goblue]

Re: A Proper Comparo: Jag XF vs Caddy CTS

I agree, its a fair review, but with all these comparisons Cadillac's lack of a true midlevel engine becomes apparent. The DI engine ought to be standard - and I want to see a 375hp engine from Caddy right quick, don't really care how they make the 375 - but in contrast to others, I'd prefer the fuel efficiency of a DI turbo. I also hope to see an Aero X style AWD system soon hooked to that 375hp engine.

Overall, if Cadillac can model all of its products in the theme of the CTS - Caddy is back - but not until. And so far, CTS is the only one.

 

[goblue]

Re: A Proper Comparo: Jag XF vs Caddy CTS

Boggles my mind why they don't offer a 85 octane DI3.6 and a 91 octane DI3.6. Pretty cheap power bump and I'm the engine would take to the increased octane like a fish to water.

Why not just have the same engine take both with respective power?

 

[goblue]

Re: A Proper Comparo: Jag XF vs Caddy CTS

RUmors are the top-end CTS engine will be a 3.0L Twin Turbo V6 @ 420HP.
Sounds pretty interesting, but it's no V8.

No - its better than a V8.

Before the days of DI and $4.00 gas I'd agree with you, but:

1) Today's best V6s are as smooth as last decade's V8s - which were plenty smooth.
2) Turbos offer the same power as more displacement with better economy.
3) DI eliminates turbo lag.
4) GM isn't going to do DOHC V8s - so its a turbo DI 6 or an LS3 - which do you think is going to look more "advanced"

So, I'll take the slight NVH hit relative to a clean sheet V8 design to get better fuel economy for equal power. And I bet most Americans will too. 40K (the starting point for this type of CTS) is still within the market for people who care about a 20% fuel economy difference.

Now, when you get to the S class level - then I'd take the V8. Gas mileage becomes less of an issue when you are dropping 80K on a car.

 

[goblue]

I wouldn't mind a properly-tuned smallblock in a Cadillac. Bentley's big cars use an OHV V8 (heavily revised in 2001, updated again last year) and they command quite a bit of respect.

Bentley doesn't really have a competitor. Lets say Bentley competed with the Grandeur Motor Company, and Sigma Motors - who also offered cars in the 200K category - and used DOHC V8s and V12s with 8 speed transmissions. You can bet Bentley would be dinged heavily for it in the Robb Report and would be sourcing DOHC engines from Mercedes within 2 years.

Lets say GM took a 4.8L smallblock, added DI, found an innovative way to quell NVH to Ultra levels, and it got better fuel economy than say, BMWs V8s - then I'd say, sure - why not. Provided they branded it something uplevel as well - it would work fine, but I don't see GM doing that anytime soon.

Cadillac doesn't need exclusive engines per say, but they do need exclusive versions tailored to the application with separate branding, better features: ie more expensive versions. I like DI turbos and V6s better than V8s (smallblock or DOHC) in the CTS class because they win the fuel econ game - and thats an important game going forward to lead in.

Don't confuse the raucous LSA in the CTS-V as something your average CTS buyer wants anything to do with. Thats a special situation. The type of person who would put up with that punishing suspension is the same type that will put up with the LSA in a luxury car, and may view it as a plus. Not so with an uplevel CTS. The LS3's exhuast note will not be welcome to the average CTS Cadillac buyer.

 

[goblue]

Re: A Proper Comparo: Jag XF vs Caddy CTS

Where are you getting this 20% fuel economy difference? I've yet to see the LS get beat in a fuel econ matchup.

And turbos do not have an NVH advantage. You can hear them doing their little whirry thing, where all you need is some exhaust tuning on a small block. See some of the G8 reviews for an example... several reviewers have been surprised by the the unexpected lack of rumble.

I'd rather have a V8 any day.... especially once they DI it, which is surely coming.

I never said they did. However, drive BMW's turbo 6, its plenty smooth - more than the current LS engines.

Your second point just shows how bad the perception of that engine is - and GM has enough of a perception fight on its hands.

 

[goblue]

I wouldnt say that GM wont make another DOHC V8.

Caddy needs a V8. Not a turbo 6, not supercharged 4, it needs a V8. Being it Gen V powerd or otherwise, V8 is a must for a luxury brand.

I completely disagree. A V8 is not a requirement, would it be nice to have for a few years - sure - but Cadillac doesn't have a 7/S competitor, and thats where a V8 might be "required."

GM decided it wasn't worth the cost, and if they are putting the money towards advancing a E-Flex Sigma by a year, thats a good decision.

These old fashioned ideas of whats "needed" for any type of car are outdated. There are now many ways to make lots of power - and all have advantages and disadvantages. Its all going to be turned on its head within short order anyway. Just pretend electric motors are like DVDs and direct ICE power is like VHS.

Lets judge powertrains on power, torque, NVH and fuel economy - not some romanticized obsession with the past.