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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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First Drive: 2009 Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid

A Chevrolet Pickup More Advanced Than Lexus' Top Sedan?

No, not the smug-emitting Prius, but Toyota's top-of-the-line Lexus LS 600h L luxury sedan. According to the EPA, the full-size LS 600h is rated at 20/22 mpg city/highway, while the half-ton Silverado Hybrid 2WD crew cab scores a morally superior 21/22 mpg city/highway.

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/20...of-the-2009-chevrolet-silverado-hybrid-1.html
 

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roteague - Great find. An enjoyable read.
It's hard to believe that article is so GM-positive and so Lexus-Negative.
Deservedly so,
I never thought I would see the day when the pendulum would swung back so forcefully.
Keep up the great work GM!
 

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I love the fact Chevy makes a Hybrid Tahoe and Silverado...I really do. I just want to get that out of the way. 21 mpg is very appealing in a big safe utility friendly pickup! But articles like this are hilarious! The Lexus goes 0-60 in under 6 seconds! If they wanted to make it have optimum fuel economy, they would/could have. The people that buy $105k+ cars......say it with me One hundred five thousand dollars (starting)......do not care about gas mileage. The Lexus is a uber-luxury car, not a fuel miser.

edited out dumb question! ;)
 

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I love the fact Chevy makes a Hybrid Tahoe and Silverado...I really do. I just want to get that out of the way. 21 mpg is very appealing in a big safe utility friendly pickup! But articles like this are hilarious! The Lexus goes 0-60 in under 6 seconds! If they wanted to make it have optimum fuel economy, they would/could have. The people that buy $105k+ cars......say it with me One hundred five thousand dollars (starting)......do not care about gas mileage. The Lexus is a uber-luxury car, not a fuel miser.
The Silverado Hybrid can tow 6,100lbs. and haul 1,400lbs. The Lexus is fast and gadget-ridden, the Silverado works hard. Saying that all ultra-luxury sedan buyers do not care about economy is like saying anyone that tows a boat could care less about fuel economy.

Hell while I am at it: Why do GM ads claim 50% greater fuel economy in the city with the Hybrid trucks/SUV's than their non-hybrid counterparts? It's a lie. When has a Silverado or Tahoe been rated at 10 or 11 mpg in the city?
14MPG City Rating + 50% (7MPG) = 21MPG
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If they wanted to make it have optimum fuel economy, they would/could have. The people that buy $105k+ cars......say it with me One hundred five thousand dollars (starting)......do not care about gas mileage. The Lexus is a uber-luxury car, not a fuel miser.
I just thought the whole idea was funny; a $40k Pickup more advanced than a $100k luxury car. Consider, it takes 8770 years to pay for the hybrid premium in the Lexus - that is laughable, and sad.

However, I don't believe Toyota could have made the Lexus operate for optimum fuel efficiency. Toyota itself has stated that their HSD hybrid system doesn't work on large vehicles, like the LS-600 and unlike the GM Two-Mode system which works in small and large vehicle applications.
 

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Hell while I am at it: Why do GM ads claim 50% greater fuel economy in the city with the Hybrid trucks/SUV's than their non-hybrid counterparts? It's a lie. When has a Silverado or Tahoe been rated at 10 or 11 mpg in the city?
14MPG City Rating + 50% (7MPG) = 21MPG
Yeah. It's 50% of the City MPG. An increase of 10 or 11 MPG to 20 MPG would be a 100% increase.
 

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14MPG City Rating + 50% (7MPG) = 21MPG
lol, I'm retarded! Thanks!
Toyota itself has stated that their HSD hybrid system doesn't work on large vehicles, like the LS-600 and unlike the GM Two-Mode system which works in small and large vehicle applications.
Works well in small cars? Like which ones for sale right now? Please don't confuse what I am writing as bashing GM's 2-mode system....I AM NOT DOING THAT. I am bashing the comparison of a truck to a luxury sedan....that's completely lame.

However, I don't believe Toyota could have made the Lexus operate for optimum fuel efficiency.
See this is not fully correct. I didn't say Lexus had to use a V8...I said they could make it have better fuel efficiency. The Lexus RX400h (Hybrid V6 SUV)....see how we're getting closer to a "truck".....can tow 3,500 lbs and gets 26/23 mpg (27/24 FWD). It's also not exactly a slouch 7.3 sec 0-60.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Works well in small cars? Like which ones for sale right now?
The Two-Mode's problem with small cars is in packaging, not capability. Unlike HSD, which even Toyota says won't work efficiently on large vehicles.

I know, we are ALL waiting on GM to get the Malibu 2-Mode, Vue 2-Mode and others out for sale. It is frustrating to see Hybrid Camry's and Highlanders, and knowing that GM isn't even close to getting a vehicle to compete on the market.
 

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The people that buy $105k+ cars......say it with me One hundred five thousand dollars (starting)......do not care about gas mileage.
Don't be so sure. Many of those who buy expensive stuff have very low net worths, while many who buy ordinary pickups and so forth have high net worths.
 

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Don't be so sure. Many of those who buy expensive stuff have very low net worths, while many who buy ordinary pickups and so forth have high net worths.
I know what you're getting at. I understand there are brilliant rich people who drive XLT Ford pickups. I am talking about the people who buy a car that costs over $100k. Those 2 things are different.....again I am not talking about the people can afford to buy, I am talking about the people that actually buy $100k vehicles. Should I post mpg figures for cars $100k and up?
 

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I love the fact Chevy makes a Hybrid Tahoe and Silverado...I really do. I just want to get that out of the way. 21 mpg is very appealing in a big safe utility friendly pickup! But articles like this are hilarious! The Lexus goes 0-60 in under 6 seconds! If they wanted to make it have optimum fuel economy, they would/could have. The people that buy $105k+ cars......say it with me One hundred five thousand dollars (starting)......do not care about gas mileage. The Lexus is a uber-luxury car, not a fuel miser.

edited out dumb question! ;)
If i had that kinda money Id buy a ZR1. Screw mileage I want POWER
 

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The Two-Mode's problem with small cars is in packaging, not capability.
One of the most promoted features of the Two-Mode design was that it could easily be swapped into an existing production vehicle. Now that turns out to be false for the largest market segment. Interesting.

Of course, there is no evidence that the system works well with 4-cylinder engines. So, how will it compete with traditional vehicles in terms of efficiency?
 

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Very positive article. I'd love to have one of these things.

Regarding the towing limit I read somewhere about the Durango 2-mode and why it was limited in towing (6000 lbs?). They said it had to do mostly with reverse. As was stated in this article reverse is entirely electric and does not use the gas motor directly, the Durango is the same since it uses the same 2-mode system. It just can't handle moving more weight in reverse reliably, especially when you consider that you might be backing up a steep hill.
 

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One of the most promoted features of the Two-Mode design was that it could easily be swapped into an existing production vehicle. Now that turns out to be false for the largest market segment. Interesting.

Of course, there is no evidence that the system works well with 4-cylinder engines. So, how will it compete with traditional vehicles in terms of efficiency?
Since the 2-Mode is packed into the transmission the vehicle has to be able to fit the 2-Mode transmission package. Some of the existing models simply aren't, but I'm sure future GM vehicles will be able to have the 2-Mode installed as they've designed the space for them to fit.

Obviously packaging was an issue for everyone, including the likes of BMW who have yet to release 2-Modes. I don't recall GM saying the transmission was plug-and-play but feted the fact it was housed in the size of a standard 6-speed transmission housing.
 

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One of the most promoted features of the Two-Mode design was that it could easily be swapped into an existing production vehicle. Now that turns out to be false for the largest market segment. Interesting.

Of course, there is no evidence that the system works well with 4-cylinder engines. So, how will it compete with traditional vehicles in terms of efficiency?
Here we see intransigent to the bitter end, our prius wallowing friend.
You couldn't stop knocking GM before the two-modes arrived.
(Toyota clearly has nothing comparable)

Now that the two-modes are in the showrooms, you're complaining about a smaller package.

Two-Mode Vue.
Plugin Two-Mode Vue.

What part of those words do you not understand?
 

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Good for GM! It is about time GM sells true hybrids instead of merely faking it for years!

The only thing that scares me is the horrendous reputation GM has on technology - they always rush stuff to market and then use the customer as Research and Development and then have huge problems later on. I'd give GM five years to iron out the bugs before I'd even consider a purchase.
 

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Here we see intransigent to the bitter end, our prius wallowing friend.
You couldn't stop knocking GM before the two-modes arrived.
(Toyota clearly has nothing comparable)

Now that the two-modes are in the showrooms, you're complaining about a smaller package.

Two-Mode Vue.
Plugin Two-Mode Vue.

What part of those words do you not understand?
Is the Vue 2 mode for sale yet? Is the Plug-in Vue for sale yet? Why do you claim they are in showrooms?
 

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I like the Silverado hybrid, and it's impressive. But that article is trash.

The LS600h is AWD and has a 5 second 0-60 mph. The Silverado hybrid they tested is 2WD and if it accelerates like the Yukon Hybrid, gets to 60 mph in about 7.5 seconds.

I'm sure if Lexus designed their LS hybrid for a 7.5 second 0-60 mph with RWD, they could do far better than 20 mpg.

[EDIT] I take it back. On the next page of this thread, roteague points out that the article compares the sophistication of the GM two-mode hybrid system to the Lexus hybrid system. I interpreted the article to compare the Lexus to the Chevy, period. That's not a fair comparison. But that wasn't the comparison they made. They were rightly pointing out that the two-mode beats Lexus' hybrid system.
 
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