[2002 Caddy]

#1 reason: Lubrication issues of the mismatched / over extended type.

Wow in only one day we got you from Step #2 (say the problem isn't all that bad) to Step #3 (blame the owner for not servicing the car properly).


Outstanding!

 

[Extreme4x4]

What number was "divert the issue by trying to show that everyone else is worse, even though we don't have numbers for that either?"

In other words, if others suck on their older vehicles, it is ok for our newer vehicle to suck, also.

BTW, Explorers had sprocket and follower issues with the OHC V6. They rarely had timing chain failures. What they were, is noisy.

 

[2002 Caddy]

What number was "divert the issue by trying to show that everyone else is worse, even though we don't have numbers for that either?"

Its a subset of #2... Lets call that 2a

 

[andretti]

Now that GM has issued TSB's to change the algorithm's in the OLM to shorten the time between oil changes; I would say GM is stalling. They refuse to admit a design flaw as it would mean they would need to fix it. Instead they will continue the stall tactics and quietly fix the design flaw. This way by the time they can no longer stall most of the vehicle in question will be out of warranty.

This is an almost perfect parallel to the Northstar V8 headbolt/head gasket problem.

 

[rbarrios]

yup- I saw that TSB.
I wonder why the 2010's werent included.

 

[goochman]

yup- I saw that TSB.
I wonder why the 2010's werent included.

Even more perplexing is why the 2008's weren't!

I think in 2010 they modified the chain.

 

[XXSS]

Even more perplexing is why the 2008's weren't!

I think in 2010 they modified the chain.

Actually the campaign (10287A) affects:

2009 Buick Enclave
2007-2009 Cadillac CTS, SRX, STS
2009 Chevrolet Traverse
2007 GMC Acadia
2009 GMC Acadia
2007 Saturn OUTLOOK
2009 Saturn OUTLOOK
Equipped with HFV6 Engine

More may be added in the future.



I can speak from first hand experience that over 90% of the vehicles that land in my shop with P0008 current and require chains, also have low oil level (Most with none on the dipstick) and have traveled anywhere from 9000-20000kms between oil changes. The Camshaft actuators do require
oil pressure to function properly.Could a more durable part be made? I don't see why not. Could people check their oil level...For Sure! And yes I see alot
of em'. 40 Bay Cadillac Chevrolet Buick GMC dealer.

 

[rbarrios]

Actually the campaign (10287A) affects:

I can speak from first hand experience that over 90% of the vehicles that land in my shop with P0008 current and require chains, also have low oil level (Most with none on the dipstick) and have traveled anywhere from 9000-20000kms between oil changes. The Camshaft actuators do require
oil pressure to function properly.Could a more durable part be made? I don't see why not. Could people check their oil level...For Sure! And yes I see alot
of em'. 40 Bay Cadillac Chevrolet Buick GMC dealer.

interesting.
I guess some people fail to read the manual- especially the part that says to check the oil level often.

On my 2010 Traverse- I check the oil level weekly.
and have been doing oil changes at about 5000 mile intervals and using the AC DELCO PF-48 filter.
Im nearing 25,000.
So far- every time I check the oil level- its pretty much were it was when I changed oil (on the dipstick)
I Like doing my own oil changes-- because I tend to measure the oil that came out- and have gotten 5 quarts of used oil on average after 5K.
I also had UOA done on 2 of the batches of the oil- and feel comfortable with 4000-5000 mile oil change intervals with the oil I use and the climate im in (Southern California).

 

[brentonrf]

I have a 2006 cadilac sts that has a awful rattle in the front of the motor. The engine light came on and I was told it is the timing chain.at least that is what the computer said. Is there any recalls or anything on this problem. The car has just turned 100 thousand miles.

 

[brentonrf]

I change my oil reguraly and check it once a week. I use mobil one and it is changed every four thousand miles. which is when the computer says it is about 65% oil life.

 

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

why change the oil so frequently?



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[2002 Caddy]

interesting.
I guess some people fail to read the manual- especially the part that says to check the oil level often.

What is even more interesting is that GM has redesigned these part no fewer than 4 TIMES! If this was/is an oil problem why the constant redesign?

 

[andretti]

What is even more interesting is that GM has redesigned these part no fewer than 4 TIMES! If this was/is an oil problem why the constant redesign?

There are some here on GMI who want to misdirect the problem into owner neglect. Given the number and low mileage on some of the failures, I doubt it is an owner neglect issue. My brothers Traverse had the issue, and instead of fixing the chains, GM had the dealer install a software change to permit more slop in the camshaft to crankshaft timing. This allows the chains to stretch more (or break) before it throws the P0008 code again.
My brother changes oil religiously at less than 5000 mile intervals. He says the OLM is usually showing 50% or more at the time of change

 

[MikesZ]

I've been hearing about timing chain problems in GM's 3.6L motor for over 3 years now - from owners who had to have it replaced, in most cases with less than 10K miles on the vehicle. I wouldn't buy a GM vehicle with the 3.6L motor. Period.

 

[andretti]

I've been hearing about timing chain problems in GM's 3.6L motor for over 3 years now - from owners who had to have it replaced, in most cases with less than 10K miles on the vehicle. I wouldn't buy a GM vehicle with the 3.6L motor. Period.

I like many of the vehicles GM puts the 3.6L into, but I am concerned about the timing chains. What I would really like to know is DID GM change the chains after 2010 or did they merely change the software to allow for more slop in the cam to crank timing? I understand GM also reduced the oil change intervals in the OLM. I hope they corrected the chain problems not just have the computer ignore the codes. Does anyone know definitively what has changed?

 

[xlemosx]

So i just got this code with my 07 pontiac g6 gtp LY7. I am 1 month outside my 5 year powertrain warranty but I only have 75k km on the car and i just got off the phone with gm. They told me that I would have to bring my car in for a diagnostic then they would review things with the dealership to see if what they will cover if they will cover anything. I change my oil regularly about every 5k miles and i shouldn't be due to change my oil for about another 1000km but according to my sticker the month they put down was January. Do you guys think GM is going to blame this on me? or take the blame for this seemingly common issue.

BTW my parents Buick enclave with the 3.6l just had it's timing chains replaced too at only 26k km.

 

[JBsZ06]

Guys..in my experience when I got my oil change at a nice local shop...about a week later (at least thats when I noticed around that time frame) my check engine light...came on..

My friend who is a world class technician told me....that these NON GM specified filters being used by many qualified shops are wreaking havoc to a degree with the VVT...so my suggestion to all those who have concerns with a check engine light with regards to timing chain check engine lights is to get the GM specific OEM oil filter and then any pcm programing..

You don't really need to be getting the oil change done every 3000 miles but rather check the oil level every month....and have a slightly shorter interval than previously recommended..

I'm not sure if its carbon build up on the valves themselves as DIRECT InJECTION motors from Porsche and Lexus are having a hell of a time with that issue....

Just an fyi....I believe thats why toyota is running DI along with traditional tuned port injection...

Not a flame or fighting...just a valued opinion..from a world class GM tech and a good friend for a dozen years.

 

[andretti]

Guys..in my experience when I got my oil change at a nice local shop...about a week later (at least thats when I noticed around that time frame) my check engine light...came on..

My friend who is a world class technician told me....that these NON GM specified filters being used by many qualified shops are wreaking havoc to a degree with the VVT...so my suggestion to all those who have concerns with a check engine light with regards to timing chain check engine lights is to get the GM specific OEM oil filter and then any pcm programing..

You don't really need to be getting the oil change done every 3000 miles but rather check the oil level every month....and have a slightly shorter interval than previously recommended..

So please explain how exactly the oil filter has anything to do with the Cam to Crank timing (p0008 code thrown for timing chain issue)?

Also are you saying that the GM 3.6L uses oil? Why else do you need to check the oil frequently? The standard in modern engines is no oil consumption in at least 5000 miles.

 

[JBsZ06]

So please explain how exactly the oil filter has anything to do with the Cam to Crank timing (p0008 code thrown for timing chain issue)?

Also are you saying that the GM 3.6L uses oil? Why else do you need to check the oil frequently? The standard in modern engines is no oil consumption in at least 5000 miles.

Andretti...

I'll be more than happy to give my insight and the insight of my good friend of over a dozen years who is a world class GM tech and what he said to me is...(and take fwiw) the non OEM specific oil filter alters the oil flow characteristics enough that with the variable valve timeing without the reprograming it will set the P008 code..

Please don't argue with me as I am just explaining what my trusted friend of over a dozen years and one of the finest GM world class techicians who gives seminars at both bowling green and carlisle as well as many other events explained to me...since I have a 3.6 liter DI engine in my 2008 CTS.

As far as why GM altered the timing of the oil changes with this engine...it seems most americans DO NOT check the oil in their vehicles on a regular monthly basis or anywhere near that and with an extended oil change interval with synthetics (SP) many engines are running dangerously low oil levels..

I'm old school so I remember high performance italian engines...LOL and if they used a quart of oil every 2000 miles...it would have been that long because god himself intervened..

Of course the new engines today are higher hp /tq per cubic inch...etc.. yet with their desire to lower friction along with extended oil change intervals ...ie. 8 to 10k miles ..its easy to see how an engine could run lower than required levels of oil...

Hence BMW putting in not an oil dipstick but rather an oil level monitor...as their owners tend not to check their oil...LOL

Most car enthusiasts do...but the John or Jane Q Public do NOT CHECK THIER OIL LEVEL EVER!

As an enthusiast I laugh as we are even lucky to get owners to just have the time to get their oil changed on time...

As some would say...they are just toooooooo busy..

I of course disagree and check the cars oil level on a monthly basis ..

Just for the fact its habit and....having grown up in the sixties with a dad (long gone) whose high performance italian machines always used oil at lets say interesting levels...

Todays GM engines are amazingly superior both in power output, reliablity and of course in the manner that they DO NOT consume oil.

Like I mentioned earlier ...I don't want to go back and forth...I'm voicing my experience and opinion. No flame wars necessary ..

All I'm suggesting is a) use a GM specified oil filter...(not a comparable one) and check your oil regularly as common sense would dictate..

Change your oil at GM suggested intervals and you will have many many years of useage without any problems...

Hope this helps.

JB

 

[andretti]

JB

Please don't over react to this as I agree with much of your previous post. Can you answer one thing? What exactly is a "GM specified" oil filter? Is that a oil filter only from a dealer or will a AC Delco filter from anywhere satisfy the requirement?