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Please don’t play word games to gain attention.
When key terms are used it’s well to stick with the understanding of their meaning in the context of the discussion rather than proving how clever you are by trying to shift the meaning of those terms.
We know in the context of luxury brands vs mainstream brands in the automotive world, Mercedes, regardless of sales volume, is a luxury brand not a mainstream brand.
Doing that kind of thing indicates you don’t really have anything productive to add to the discussion so you are seeking attention for cleverly redefining an otherwise understood term.
64081
 

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V has been the big bwoy for a while now.. no?
Two decades. The provenience of Cadillac V dates back to the year 2000 when Bob Lutz, John Heinricy, and Jim Taylor started brainstorming the concept of developing high performance Cadillac vehicles competitive with BMW M and Mercedes-Benz AMG models.

Bob Lutz said:
"We (GM Performance/HPVO) knew that we needed to equal or surpass the performance of BMW’s M cars and the Mercedes AMGs to get the support of the automotive press and those were the cars to beat."
Lutz on choosing the letter V:
"We, of course, wanted to stay away from M, A, G, R or S and felt that “V” was a unique and elegant letter. There’s definitely a credible claim to say that it stands for velocity, with the later models being described as visceral.”
 

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Two decades. The provenience of Cadillac V dates back to the year 2000 when Bob Lutz, John Heinricy, and Jim Taylor started brainstorming the concept of developing high performance Cadillac vehicles competitive with BMW M and Mercedes-Benz AMG models.

Bob Lutz said:


Lutz on choosing the letter V:

Yes yes. And Holden also reused the V-badges for their cars as well. Same stylized V and everything.

The idea for the Cadillac V is an excellent one.
It's execution has been hit and miss and more recently an exercise in confused branding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
You are not targeting a wide array of customers with $50-200k priced automobiles. Selling lots of cars to people with lots of money doesn’t make you a mainstream brand because “people with lots of money” are not a wide array of customers.

You can look at vehicles like the A Class and the GLA and argue that they target a wider array of customers than the rest of their cars, and certainly, by starting price they target a wider array of customers than say, the GLE or the E Class, but they don’t target as wide array of customers as a mainstream brand like the Trailblazer. They are entry points to a luxury brand.

The masses do not buy the C Class or the E Class. People with lots of money do.

If we accept this silliness, then Mazda is a luxury brand and Mercedes is a mainstream brand. Nobody but contrarians make such a statement. And contrarians don’t count as serious people.
 

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You are not targeting a wide array of customers with $50-200k priced automobiles. Selling lots of cars to people with lots of money doesn’t make you a mainstream brand because “people with lots of money” are not a wide array of customers.

You can look at vehicles like the A Class and the GLA and argue that they target a wider array of customers than the rest of their cars, and certainly, by starting price they target a wider array of customers than say, the GLE or the E Class, but they don’t target as wide array of customers as a mainstream brand like the Trailblazer. They are entry points to a luxury brand.

The masses do not buy the C Class or the E Class. People with lots of money do.

If we accept this silliness, then Mazda is a luxury brand and Mercedes is a mainstream brand. Nobody but contrarians make such a statement. And contrarians don’t count as serious people.
Mainstream,
Oxford definition
1The ideas, attitudes, or activities that are shared by most people and regarded as normal or conventional.
 

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You can look at vehicles like the A Class and the GLA and argue that they target a wider array of customers than the rest of their cars, and certainly, by starting price they target a wider array of customers than say, the GLE or the E Class...
Comparing vehicles within the brand to each other is a non-sequitur. The post you answered addressed the brand as a whole.
You are not targeting a wide array of customers with $50-200k priced automobiles.
Of course they are; that's the very definition of a 'wide array'. It's not somehow going to be wider if the range was -say- $50K to $100K. And the mercedes brand starts at $33K, not $50K, so it's array is even w i d e r than you portrayed. ;)
 

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The new Acura TLX Type S seems to be a close competitor to Cadillac CT5-V AWD in terms of size, power, and price:

Acura TLX Type S SH-AWD
  • 194.6 in (4,943 mm) length
  • 355 hp engine
  • $53,345 base price (U.S.)

Cadillac CT5-V AWD
  • 193.8 in (4,923 mm) length
  • 360 hp engine
  • $51,590 base price (U.S.)
Car and Driver just posted its instrumented test results for TLX Type S:
C/D TEST RESULTS 2021 Acura TLX Type S
  • 0-60 mph: 4.9 sec
  • 0-100 mph: 12.6 sec
  • ¼-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
  • 0-130 mph: 24.2 sec
  • Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
  • Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.3 sec
  • Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
  • Top Speed (C/D est): 155 mph
  • Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft
  • Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.96 g

For comparison here are the results for CT5-V:
C/D TEST RESULTS 2020 Cadillac CT5-V RWD
  • 0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
  • 0-100 mph: 11.5 sec
  • ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph
  • 0-130 mph: 21.5 sec
  • Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
  • Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.8 sec
  • Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
  • ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph
  • Top speed (mfr's claim): 168 mph
  • Braking, 70–0 mph: 153 ft
  • Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.99 g
 

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Car and Driver just posted its instrumented test results for TLX Type S:
C/D TEST RESULTS 2021 Acura TLX Type S
  • 0-60 mph: 4.9 sec
  • 0-100 mph: 12.6 sec
  • ¼-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
  • 0-130 mph: 24.2 sec
  • Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
  • Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.3 sec
  • Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
  • Top Speed (C/D est): 155 mph
  • Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft
  • Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.96 g

For comparison here are the results for CT5-V:
C/D TEST RESULTS 2020 Cadillac CT5-V RWD
  • 0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
  • 0-100 mph: 11.5 sec
  • ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph
  • 0-130 mph: 21.5 sec
  • Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
  • Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.8 sec
  • Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
  • ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph
  • Top speed (mfr's claim): 168 mph
  • Braking, 70–0 mph: 153 ft
  • Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.99 g
0-60 is close but after that...and the top gear roll ons are not even close. I like the TLX but all the reviews say the handling is hurt by the weight and by the FWD chassis. The CT5-V is a much better choice if you're looking for performance IMO.
 

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Mini isn't really a "mainstream" brand. It's a premium boutique brand. They essentially sell iterations of 1 car.
BMW's mainstream brand would have been/was Rover.
I'm probably gonna get this wrong because it's confusing, but BMW broke up the original Rover Group, selling Land Rover to Ford, where Ford merged Land Rover with Jaguar and Lincoln to form PAG. Ford then sold off Jaguar and Land Rover to Tata, forming JLR. BMW kept MG Rover for a few more years and sold that off to SAIC, except for Mini, which BMW retained.
But the actual "Rover" name went to Tata, along with the ultra-high end "Daimler" name. I think BMW retains the "Triumph" name and another one. All the remaining names went to SAIC. They can't use "Rover" so they created "Roewe."

So, if JLR ever wanted to pursue a "mainstream volume" brand, they could revive "Rover." And if they wanted to re-enter the ultra-high end, they could bring back Daimler, with a similar strategy as Mercedes-Maybach.
To add to that, the Rover name was retained by BMW with Ford merely having a licence to use Land Rover - but to make the sale of JLR more attractive, Ford bought the Rover name from BMW and included it in the sale to Tata.

BMW has the rights to Triumph cars and Riley.

Daimler is complicated by the original split - the rights to Daimler car branding is owned by Tata/JLR as part of Jaguar but the Daimler brand in North America is owned by Daimler AG, ie Mercedes-Benz - since neither party could use the brand globally, it's not likely to be used again.
 

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To add to that, the Rover name was retained by BMW with Ford merely having a licence to use Land Rover - but to make the sale of JLR more attractive, Ford bought the Rover name from BMW and included it in the sale to Tata.

BMW has the rights to Triumph cars and Riley.

Daimler is complicated by the original split - the rights to Daimler car branding is owned by Tata/JLR as part of Jaguar but the Daimler brand in North America is owned by Daimler AG, ie Mercedes-Benz - since neither party could use the brand globally, it's not likely to be used again.
Or, one could approach the other and buy the name.
 

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To add to that, the Rover name was retained by BMW with Ford merely having a licence to use Land Rover - but to make the sale of JLR more attractive, Ford bought the Rover name from BMW and included it in the sale to Tata.
That I did not know. But it makes sense.

BMW has the rights to Triumph cars and Riley.
Riley. That's the one I can never remember!

Daimler is complicated by the original split - the rights to Daimler car branding is owned by Tata/JLR as part of Jaguar but the Daimler brand in North America is owned by Daimler AG, ie Mercedes-Benz - since neither party could use the brand globally, it's not likely to be used again.
That's right. That's why in the US the Daimlers were called Vanden Plas.
 

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The CT5-V is a much better choice if you're looking for performance IMO.
+1
CT5-V is one of those rare automobiles in which the whole car handily exceeds the sum of its parts.😎
 

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Car and Driver just posted its instrumented test results for TLX Type S:
C/D TEST RESULTS 2021 Acura TLX Type S
  • 0-60 mph: 4.9 sec
  • 0-100 mph: 12.6 sec
  • ¼-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
  • 0-130 mph: 24.2 sec
  • Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
  • Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.3 sec
  • Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
  • Top Speed (C/D est): 155 mph
  • Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft
  • Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.96 g

For comparison here are the results for CT5-V:
C/D TEST RESULTS 2020 Cadillac CT5-V RWD
  • 0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
  • 0-100 mph: 11.5 sec
  • ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph
  • 0-130 mph: 21.5 sec
  • Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
  • Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.8 sec
  • Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
  • ¼-mile: 13.3 sec @ 107 mph
  • Top speed (mfr's claim): 168 mph
  • Braking, 70–0 mph: 153 ft
  • Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.99 g
I really like the TLX but if you're buying it as a sports sedan, there are better options out there. Personally I'd never go higher than ASpec.
 

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Discussion Starter · #134 ·
0-60 is close but after that...and the top gear roll ons are not even close. I like the TLX but all the reviews say the handling is hurt by the weight and by the FWD chassis. The CT5-V is a much better choice if you're looking for performance IMO.
Of course, the CT5-V in this comparison is AWD, where we know the CT5-V in RWD form is a notch above the AWD, and so the start price for the CT5-V would come down a few thousand.

I have yet to see a RWD version of the CT5-V undergo testing like this, and Cadillac does project a quicker 0-60 time for the RWD version. The AWD version gets good reviews, but the vast majority of the reviews say the RWD feels quicker and the AWD dampens some of the fun.
 
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