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Understand completely.

I updated that post to indicate I was wrong about the breaks. It was the same breaks as the Cavalier.

And, yeah, I am a rare creature: I enjoy defending the Cimarron.

I thought the Cimarron was a bad idea from the start. It shouldn't have been a Cadillac. I don't think it should have been a Buick either - they shouldn't have gone beyond the Oldsmobile Firenza for the J-cars.

But like a lot of other things, the badness of the Cimarron has taken on legendary and false proportions over time. It actually did have it's good points and did garner some pretty decent reviews as time went by.

There have been a lot of bad cars over the decades. But as bad as some were, not every Vega engine failed. Not every Pinto burst into flames. The Cimarron didn't have any terrifying flaws, it just wasn't a great car. It also wasn't a bad car when evaluated objectively. But in a world where there existed a dealership selling Chevrolet Cavaliers right down the road, and another selling Pontiac Sunbirds in the other direction, it wasn't a very good Cadillac.
 
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The people who had bad experiences with some bad Cadillacs - and yeah, some were really poor - aren't around anymore. But the reputation lives on, among people who have no experience with such cars. Even your mention of the Northstar is ancient history at this point.
However, incompetence among GM marketing and PR dweebs to properly manage and cultivate the Cadillac brand lives on. And this has sadly has spread throughout GM; the previous CMO of Cadillac (Deborah Wahl) is now Global CMO of General Motors.



 

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Good points BlackGTP! I just configured a 2021 CT5 Sport with the V Performance Package on www.cadillac.com. Here's how things played out:
  • Standard vehicle price: $41,995
  • Add V Performance Package (FE3 sport suspension with MRC, mechanical limited slip differential): +$1,950
  • Add Brembo V Performance Brakes (includes red or blue painted brake calipers; required when V Performance Package is specified): +$1,000
  • Destination charge: $1,195
Total: $46,140

This is $2,350 less than the base price of CT5-V. For such a slight price difference, it seems to me CT5-V is definitely the way to go.
Plus the V comes with the superior Twin turbo V-6, which is not available on the Sport, only the V and the Premium Luxury($3500 option). I have A 2021 Ct5 Premium Luxury with the V6. The 2.0 turbo that most Ct5's come with is its biggest problem. That engine is very lifeless and loud. I used to have a CTS and the CT5 is a bit softer, but is a much better riding vehicle.
 

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Plus the V comes with the superior Twin turbo V-6, which is not available on the Sport, only the V and the Premium Luxury($3500 option). I have A 2021 Ct5 Premium Luxury with the V6. The 2.0 turbo that most Ct5's come with is its biggest problem. That engine is very lifeless and loud.
Well said chevelle454. Congratulations on your V6 powered CT5 Premium Luxury! The engine option was $3,500 well spent. Come to think of it, that makes CT5-V an even better bargain compared to CT5 Sport with V Performance Package with the former being only $2,350 more than the latter.

I haven't driven a CT5 with the LSY 2.0L turbo engine, but my wife and I did experience that engine in an XT4. I agree with you that it does a better job of making noise than making motion.
 

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Well said chevelle454. Congratulations on your V6 powered CT5 Premium Luxury! The engine option was $3,500 well spent. Come to think of it, that makes CT5-V an even better bargain compared to CT5 Sport with V Performance Package with the former being only $2,350 more than the latter.

I haven't driven a CT5 with the LSY 2.0L turbo engine, but my wife and I did experience that engine in an XT4. I agree with you that it does a better job of making noise than making motion.
That 2.0 should've never been in the CT5, it seems like it's barely adequate for the CT4...may as well just kept the 3.6 as the base engine. Still not sure why they switched 2.0Ts to this lower powered unit. Didn't help NVH from all the complaints and it's woefully underpowered now. It's almost like they want you to not buy the 2.0T cars.

Now the crazy part is that these two share an assembly line w/ the Camaro that still uses the old 2.0...this **** doesn't make any sense at all.
 

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However, incompetence among GM marketing and PR dweebs to properly manage and cultivate the Cadillac brand lives on. And this has sadly has spread throughout GM; the previous CMO of Cadillac (Deborah Wahl) is now Global CMO of General Motors.



Have you ever heard so much corporate drivel? Is she selling scooters or Cadillacs? Mobility?
 

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That 2.0 should've never been in the CT5, it seems like it's barely adequate for the CT4...may as well just kept the 3.6 as the base engine. Still not sure why they switched 2.0Ts to this lower powered unit. Didn't help NVH from all the complaints and it's woefully underpowered now. It's almost like they want you to not buy the 2.0T cars.

Now the crazy part is that these two share an assembly line w/ the Camaro that still uses the old 2.0...this **** doesn't make any sense at all.
You mean doing a clean sheet redesign of the volume engine in GM's luxury car division that lost 40 hp and gained no NVH benefit in the process made as much sense as designing a special V8 for that division with a special name, and then changing the performance badging of that divisions cars to that special name, but not actually using the engine with said special name?

You must be on drugs son if you can't grasp that rationale.
 

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You mean doing a clean sheet redesign of the volume engine in GM's luxury car division that lost 40 hp and gained no NVH benefit in the process made as much sense as designing a special V8 for that division with a special name, and then changing the performance badging of that divisions cars to that special name, but not actually using the engine with said special name?

You must be on drugs son if you can't grasp that rationale.
Shhhhh....you'll awake the beasts!!!
 

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That 2.0 should've never been in the CT5, it seems like it's barely adequate for the CT4...may as well just kept the 3.6 as the base engine. Still not sure why they switched 2.0Ts to this lower powered unit. Didn't help NVH from all the complaints and it's woefully underpowered now. It's almost like they want you to not buy the 2.0T cars.

Now the crazy part is that these two share an assembly line w/ the Camaro that still uses the old 2.0...this **** doesn't make any sense at all.

I have the 2.0T in my ATS, the 272HP version. I'm very happy with it, although, seeing my ATS as a sports coupe and not a luxury car, I really don't have an issue with it not being the smoothest engine. I can understand not thinking this engine is appropriate for a luxury car. A friend had a CTS with that engine and he seemed to like the car. I'd have to wonder at the performance in a car bigger than the ATS.

At speed, I do actually think it's a very smooth performer. The only issue I have with it in that area is from a stoplight. It doesn't launch as smooth as it should, at least not with the car in touring mode. If you switch to performance mode, it's pretty smooth.

With 272HP, it's a quick car. Shame they downgraded it without addressing NVH.
 
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I have the 2.0T in my ATS, the 272HP version. I'm very happy with it, although, seeing my ATS as a sports coupe and not a luxury car, I really don't have an issue with it not being the smoothest engine. I can understand not thinking this engine is appropriate for a luxury car. A friend had a CTS with that engine and he seemed to like the car. I'd have to wonder at the performance in a car bigger than the ATS.

At speed, I do actually think it's a very smooth performer. The only issue I have with it in that area is from a stoplight. It doesn't launch as smooth as it should, at least not with the car in touring mode. If you switch to performance mode, it's pretty smooth.

With 272HP, it's a quick car. Shame they downgraded it without addressing NVH.
I have the 2.0T in my CTS. Certainly adequate performance wise. It's quick but I like the 3.6 in my Camaro better, sounds better, revs nicer, more horsepower (335). That should be the standard engine in the CT5 IMO. The turbo 6 should be the upgrade. I wouldn't even consider the new 2.0T, 237 HP and lower torque is not competitive.
My lease is ending on my CTS this month and they've been calling telling me they'll get me in a CT5 for a hundred a month less with basically no out of pocket. I told them I wouldn't even think about a 2.0T CT5. Get me in a CT5-V with leather and a sunroof and we'll talk. Crickets.
 

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You mean doing a clean sheet redesign of the volume engine in GM's luxury car division that lost 40 hp and gained no NVH benefit in the process made as much sense as designing a special V8 for that division with a special name, and then changing the performance badging of that divisions cars to that special name, but not actually using the engine with said special name?

You must be on drugs son if you can't grasp that rationale.
Ha...and on top of that the sole car w/ that special V8 didn't even carry the Blackwing badge. But I guess it all paid off, it got someone here to buy a V that wouldn't have had it been badged a VSport.
 

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Before I had my CT5 , my CTS had the older LTG 2.0 and i liked that engine, it was never lacking for power, unlike the LSY which just seemed to just get louder instead of accelerating. That is the reason I opted for the Twin Turbo V6 in my CT5
 

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I have the 2.0T in my ATS, the 272HP version. I'm very happy with it, although, seeing my ATS as a sports coupe and not a luxury car, I really don't have an issue with it not being the smoothest engine. I can understand not thinking this engine is appropriate for a luxury car. A friend had a CTS with that engine and he seemed to like the car. I'd have to wonder at the performance in a car bigger than the ATS.

At speed, I do actually think it's a very smooth performer. The only issue I have with it in that area is from a stoplight. It doesn't launch as smooth as it should, at least not with the car in touring mode. If you switch to performance mode, it's pretty smooth.

With 272HP, it's a quick car. Shame they downgraded it without addressing NVH.
I'm sure the ATS was plenty quick w/ the 276hp 2.0 which makes the clean sheet downgrade even more pointless...I ran the numbers a while back, that 272 -> 236hp had a direct correlation w/ the new 2.0's fuel economy improvements. They would've been just as well off by cutting fuel/air flow to the old 2.0T to get the same power/efficiency numbers (i'm no engineer but in my mind that's how it works).

I'd get a CT5 Sport had it had the 3.6 instead of that 2.0 @ 43k.
 

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However, incompetence among GM marketing and PR dweebs to properly manage and cultivate the Cadillac brand lives on. And this has sadly has spread throughout GM; the previous CMO of Cadillac (Deborah Wahl) is now Global CMO of General Motors.




Compare this GM corporate speak for Cadillac with what Lucid is doing regarding building its brand and nascent reputation as a proper luxury EV manufacturer and experience.
Boutique locations in very wealthy, cosmopolitan areas. Low pressure sales techniques, designed to acquaint the buyer with the brand.

They're conscious that they're a new luxury brand, so finding a niche that works for the company and brand, as well as something that is differentiated from the Germans and British (and Koreans and Japanese) is essential. You can't compete with the Europeans directly because they can do their luxury experience the best; however, you can find a luxury experience that is uniquely your own while still being viewed as equivalent or better. That's something Cadillac's never been able to find — most likely due to GM corporate interference.

 

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Compare this GM corporate speak for Cadillac with what Lucid is doing regarding building its brand and nascent reputation as a proper luxury EV manufacturer and experience.
Boutique locations in very wealthy, cosmopolitan areas. Low pressure sales techniques, designed to acquaint the buyer with the brand.

They're conscious that they're a new luxury brand, so finding a niche that works for the company and brand, as well as something that is differentiated from the Germans and British (and Koreans and Japanese) is essential. You can't compete with the Europeans directly because they can do their luxury experience the best; however, you can find a luxury experience that is uniquely your own while still being viewed as equivalent or better. That's something Cadillac's never been able to find — most likely due to GM corporate interference.

Though, to play devils advocate, if you look at the luxury field, none of the luxury brands owned by mainstream companies come without struggles. For example, Infiniti, Lincoln, Lexus all have issues, I'll give Genesis a "work in progress" as it is to soon to tell. While Lexus has the best image of the bunch, many of their vehicles show their Toyota roots and Lexus sales, while a dream for Cadillac, still struggle vs. the Germans. Even VW, who does execute their luxury brands well, seems to have done it at the expense of their mainstream brands.

I'd say mainstream brands struggle with luxury. No clue why - to many hands in the pot, to much temptation to take from the parts bin.
 

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Though, to play devils advocate, if you look at the luxury field, none of the luxury brands owned by mainstream companies come without struggles. For example, Infiniti, Lincoln, Lexus all have issues, I'll give Genesis a "work in progress" as it is to soon to tell. While Lexus has the best image of the bunch, many of their vehicles show their Toyota roots and Lexus sales, while a dream for Cadillac, still struggle vs. the Germans. Even VW, who does execute their luxury brands well, seems to have done it at the expense of their mainstream brands.

I'd say mainstream brands struggle with luxury. No clue why - to many hands in the pot, to much temptation to take from the parts bin.

For Lexus and Infiniti, you had to start somewhere. They started building their reputations from zero. Infiniti failed and has never recovered. Lexus maintains an excellent reputation in the US for high quality products and plush luxury. But that formula doesn't work globally.
Lincoln is a legacy brand that has seen better days. I get a sense of a brand direction from them, but their products remain kinda meh.
Cadillac has no direction. They seem to be going in about 4 different directions, trying to see what sticks. EV won't be their savior.
Genesis is very much a work in progress. Jury is still out. They're following Audi's strategy here of continuous improvement, while using Lexus' strategy for high quality. But they still don't have a dealership experience that is worth anything.

VW has executed very well, but it's taken decades of consistent work and improvement to even get recognition for their brand. And it still isn't perfect in the US.
 

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For Lexus and Infiniti, you had to start somewhere. They started building their reputations from zero. Infiniti failed and has never recovered. Lexus maintains an excellent reputation in the US for high quality products and plush luxury. But that formula doesn't work globally.
Lincoln is a legacy brand that has seen better days. I get a sense of a brand direction from them, but their products remain kinda meh.
Cadillac has no direction. They seem to be going in about 4 different directions, trying to see what sticks. EV won't be their savior.
Genesis is very much a work in progress. Jury is still out. They're following Audi's strategy here of continuous improvement, while using Lexus' strategy for high quality. But they still don't have a dealership experience that is worth anything.

VW has executed very well, but it's taken decades of consistent work and improvement to even get recognition for their brand. And it still isn't perfect in the US.
Lexus/Infiniti...Lexus has better bones to build off of. And TBH, I don't sense that much of Toyota-ness in any Lexus...I didn't get an Avalon vibe in the ES...I don't see much Highlander in the RX either...I think someone is just talking out of their rear...especially for a Cadillac fan whose top selling flagship is a thinly veiled Chevrolet.

But Infinit's drop off IMO started around '04-'05 when Renault took over, the french cost cutting led to once popular models languishing, FX specifically, and a shift to a more nonsensical naming convention which led to a loss of continuity.

Genesis, I'd say that they had a little bit of a misguided launch which emphasized fading Sedans over CUVs...but now that they have competent CUVs I expect them to take off.
 

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For Lexus and Infiniti, you had to start somewhere. They started building their reputations from zero. Infiniti failed and has never recovered. Lexus maintains an excellent reputation in the US for high quality products and plush luxury. But that formula doesn't work globally.
Lincoln is a legacy brand that has seen better days. I get a sense of a brand direction from them, but their products remain kinda meh.
Cadillac has no direction. They seem to be going in about 4 different directions, trying to see what sticks. EV won't be their savior.
Genesis is very much a work in progress. Jury is still out. They're following Audi's strategy here of continuous improvement, while using Lexus' strategy for high quality. But they still don't have a dealership experience that is worth anything.

VW has executed very well, but it's taken decades of consistent work and improvement to even get recognition for their brand. And it still isn't perfect in the US.
But that's my point, different reasons and ways, but none are executing to the level of BMW/Merc. And, while VW shines with luxury, their emissions scandal highlighted that they were failing miserably with their mainstream product. I don't know if it is mere coincidence or is there some kind of underlying issue that makes concurrently excelling in both luxury and mainstream mutually exclusive?
 

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Lexus/Infiniti...Lexus has better bones to build off of. And TBH, I don't sense that much of Toyota-ness in any Lexus...I didn't get an Avalon vibe in the ES...I don't see much Highlander in the RX either...I think someone is just talking out of their rear...especially for a Cadillac fan whose top selling flagship is a thinly veiled Chevrolet.
Well, Toyota and Nissan both had high end cars for sale in the JDM region. They were essentially rebadged for the US market. I thought Infiniti did a better job at hiding their base roots. Though, Lexus improved very quickly and overtime. Infiniti's marketing was a disaster.
These days, Lexus has definitely improved the differentiation.

But Infinit's drop off IMO started around '04-'05 when Renault took over, the french cost cutting led to once popular models languishing, FX specifically, and a shift to a more nonsensical naming convention which led to a loss of continuity.
Well, wasn't the Infiniti nomenclature shift JdN's doing? Q and QX? I mean, it still makes sense. Their products just became muddled.

Genesis, I'd say that they had a little bit of a misguided launch which emphasized fading Sedans over CUVs...but now that they have competent CUVs I expect them to take off.
Well, their launch was IN the actual Hyundai lineup. Hyundai Genesis and Hyundai Equus. I remember saying back then, that this wasn't the way to build a luxury brand, despite Hyundai Equus being recognized globally already. It's take Equus 2 decades from Mitsubishi rebadge to Hyundai Equus to Hyundai Genesis to Genesis G80.

Genesis is only 5 years old. They have a LOT of work ahead still. And they actually did something Cadillac can't even do — build a competent CUV off their RWD sedan. G80/GV80.
 

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But that's my point, different reasons and ways, but none are executing to the level of BMW/Merc. And, while VW shines with luxury, their emissions scandal highlighted that they were failing miserably with their mainstream product. I don't know if it is mere coincidence or is there some kind of underlying issue that makes concurrently excelling in both luxury and mainstream mutually exclusive?
Coincidence? Nah. It's company culture.
Mercedes knows their build the best luxury cars in the world. (Even if they may not in some cases.) But that's irrelevant to company culture. If you believe that you do, you do everything you can to maintain that reputation. And you continually improve over and over and over. That's why S-Class' reputation persists after all these decades. It's built to be the pinnacle. While everyone tries to catch up to the S, it's not lasting.

VW's emissions scandal was self inflicted. And quite stupid and damaging. That's also why Audi alone is spending $12B on EVs thru 2025 plus $6B on hybrid. The way to get away from an emissions scandal is to simply not emit anything, I suppose.
 
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