[WyomingSS]

Wow,didn't know there was so many Ford Fan Boyz and Camaro haters on GMInside news! How many changes were expected after one year,let alone one year of out-selling the Mustang every month since released? Seems to Me the GMInside news Ford Members said that the Camaro would only out-sell the Stang for a few Months.I don't mind the tweaks they did,I didn't expect any more.Sure a couple hundred pound diet would be nice but I don't drive my SS around thinking ........... man this car feels 250lbs heavy!It's my belief is the majority of Camaro haters are A.Ford/Dodge guys B.Would never buy one anyway or C.Would love one but the wife won't let them so they rag on it to D. Feel better about not being allowed to by one! E.Thanks honey for loving the Camaro as much as me!!!!!!!!!

 

[blaksabb]

So, reading between the lines, there have been no changes to the 3.6 DI. They are saying that the 304HP was underrated and now they can claim higher HP that Mustang w/ no actual performance improvement. Marketing BS at its best.

 

[schmallz]

$40,000

$145,000

There's a little bit of context that you missed. It's not apples to apples.

More like a 50k Vette and a 90k E63 AMG.

Point is GM had to slap a super charger on the 6.2 V8 in the CTS to match the E Class when they have a very similar displacement.

We all know how well the 6.0 CTS-V faired against the M5 and E55 AMG.

 

[DarkKnight67]

That head up display is nice --- but, it's going to kill my buddy who just got his 2LT a month ago.

 

[TruckMan]

$40,000

$145,000

There's a little bit of context that you missed. It's not apples to apples.

You missed his point - he was talking about ENGINE hp, nothing about the cars themselves. Of course a Mercedes cost more than a Chevy - that was never part of the discussion.

Go buy a track pack Mustang with the short rear end and just try to get the EPA on the sticker.

Ahhh... that all important sports car stat - fuel economy. Cause people with track use sports cars aren't concerned with anything but fuel economy. :fall:


These Camaro vs Mustang threads all end up the same way - people find the stupidest crap to brag/argue about. It's like comparing Reebok to Nike. WHO CARES! The truth is, they're both great cars, and it sounds like they're equally matched.

 

[WyomingSS]

I would rather see GM redesign the gauge cluster before messing around copying Ford My Color. Chevrolet (and Ford's) signature color is blue, leave the interior backlighting that way.

Instead they need to make the gauges on the SS much more legible and they need to have a throwback font on them like the V6 Camaro or the Mustang has.

4000 miles and no issues reading the gauges? This complaint floors me,they are easy to read and in perfect sight........

 

[slant6]

“The 304 horsepower in the 2010 Camaro was actually a conservative rating on our end,” said Tom Sutter, GM V-6 chief engineer. “But we knew already that this award-winning engine produced at least the amount of power we stated, but now we’ve gone the extra step in certifying the engine for this application and have verified an additional 8 horsepower.”

That quote is interesting, as GM's site shows that the power was certified in 2010.
http://archives.media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/10car_us.htm
http://archives.media.gm.com/us/pow...wertrain/en/product_services/2010/gmna/HPT Library/HFV6/2010 36L LLT Camaro.pdf

Perhaps in 2010 they just copied the CTS power curve and assumed that it was close enough for the Camaro.

 

[smith7629]

Okay, no changes to the engine. Just a completion of the SAE certification process revealed the engine produced more HP than they originally thought. Nothing to get excited about...its the same engine as a 2010.

 

[Evo69]

Hmmm GM pulls a fast one by re-rating the V6 horsepower to its accurate reading... lol. However announcing the availability of the HUD function is a good move. Lots of people are holding out for the nav though, im not holding my breath for that. The only way I see the nav for the Camaro is through a thorough upgrade of the interior.

 

[msitter]

$40,000

$145,000

There's a little bit of context that you missed. It's not apples to apples.

I don't think any context was missed. A blanket statement was made that OHV engines make more power than OHC engines. The response was as noted. I didn't see any reference to price. Cam position has less to do with power and more to do revability. Cam timing and cylinder head breathing have more to do with power. A normally aspirated 6.2l LS motor can make that 520+hp figure as well but it wouldn't be anything near as refined or drivable as the Mercedes.

 

[Avalanche13]

6.2L LS3 ~436hp.

6.2L M156(Mercedes DOHC V8) ~518hp

You might want to think about how weak the 3.6 would be if it was OHV.

The in torque in a pushrod seems so sensational because of the lack of HP up high. It's a similar problem with SOHC.

The hotter the hot, the colder the cold.

Damnit, can we please stop with frivolous specific horsepower (hp:displacement ratio) arguments? They mean NOTHING.

More like a 50k Vette and a 90k E63 AMG.

You can get an LS3 powered car for $31k. Can you even profitably sell the 6.2L AMG engine in anything at that price point?

You missed his point - he was talking about ENGINE hp, nothing about the cars themselves. Of course a Mercedes cost more than a Chevy - that was never part of the discussion.

He was making the specific horsepower argument, which anyone with a modicum of sense knows is a stupid argument.

Ahhh... that all important sports car stat - fuel economy. Cause people with track use sports cars aren't concerned with anything but fuel economy. :fall:

Not to put words in mr. blue's mouth, but I took his point as meaning that the Mustang is unable to achieve both Camaro beating performance AND economy. Its one or the other. The Mustang can't match the Camaro in both categories simultaneously. Correct me if I'm wrong goblue.

These Camaro vs Mustang threads all end up the same way - people find the stupidest crap to brag/argue about. It's like comparing Reebok to Nike. WHO CARES! The truth is, they're both great cars, and it sounds like they're equally matched.

Camaro Vs Mustang is the most classic domestic rivalries there is, igniting more passion than even F-150 vs Silverado.

 

[schmallz]

I don't think any context was missed. A blanket statement was made that OHV engines make more power than OHC engines. The response was as noted. I didn't see any reference to price. Cam position has less to do with power and more to do revability. Cam timing and cylinder head breathing have more to do with power. A normally aspirated 6.2l LS motor can make that 520+hp figure as well but it wouldn't be anything near as refined or drivable as the Mercedes.

Solid Lifters and other mods would be needed too I would think.

Lets not even talk about the MPG in a 520hp LS3.

The biggest part of the HP equation is your valves opening and closing.

That's why the V6 Camaro is DOHC.

 

[schmallz]

He was making the specific horsepower argument, which anyone with a modicum of sense knows is a stupid argument.

No, its the engine with X displacement and DOHC will make more power than the engine with X displacement and OHV.

There are some crappy Toyota truck V8s that go against this.

But Show me a N.A. V8 from GM that makes at least 90hp/Liter.

There are 5 other companies I can think of.

The point is, doing more with less.

 

[Avalanche13]

No, its the engine with X displacement and DOHC will make more power than the engine with X displacement and OHV.

No kidding. Explain to me why that's important when you can just up the cubes for the OHV engine and gain torque in the process.

But Show me a N.A. V8 from GM that makes at least 90hp/Liter.

Who cares what the hp/L rating is. You've yet to explain how it means anything. Engines should be compared based on their power output and weight, you know things that matter. Does DOHC get you better fuel economy? No. Does it get you better reliability? No. Does it save money? No. Does it reduce mechanical complexity? No. Does it give you a useless hp/L stat? Yeah.

 

[TriShield]

4000 miles and no issues reading the gauges? This complaint floors me,they are easy to read and in perfect sight........

I rented an SS for a week for the Dream Cruise. I came away absolutely loving the car but the font on the SS is one thing I would change. I found them hard to read at a glance and relied on the DIC for speed instead.

 

[momolos]

I hate to be this guy but here goes I guess:

I cannot understand why GM refuses to offer its cars without the option of paying them $2,000.00 for a Navigation system in some of their cars!!!
We were told that the 2011 Camaro would have a navi
HUD is cool but not a touch screen navigation that for whatever reason people are willing to pay for, and GM just doesn't want to grab that extra money.



Can anyone explain this to me?

 

[schmallz]

No kidding. Explain to me why that's important when you can just up the cubes for the OHV engine and gain torque in the process.

Beacause in the rest of the world, engines are taxed based on displacement.
And you conviently didn't read the rest of my Post I see.
The point is doing more with less.

You only think you have so much torque because you are lacking HP.

 

[91 s-10baja]

If i read this correctly the engine technically does not make more power, just that it was re-certified at the new output rating. Nothing has changed. Is this correct?

 

[Rocket 88]

Nor has Mustang caught Camaro on the SALES track!

Pretty funny considering the Mustang could take the next decade or two off before the Camaro got close in all time sales. The Camaro is deservedly ahead on the sales charts but this is following a mulit year absence from the market. You should consider a little perspective.

I'm not dissing the Camaro, but you're talking poop about another icon and chick magnet.

 

[Avalanche13]

Beacause in the rest of the world, engines are taxed based on displacement.
And you conviently didn't read the rest of my Post I see.
The point is doing more with less.

You only think you have so much torque because you are lacking HP.

If the US had a displacement tax, it'd make more sense, but we don't so displacement is all good.

The OHV engine is doing more with less size, weight, camshafts, complexity, and in most cases fuel when HP is equal. An OHV engine is a perfectly valid way to motivate a vehicle.

Personally I hate engines that have far more HP than torque, they're no fun to drive. I've yet to experience an engine that delivers as immediate a sense of power as the SRT8 6.1L HEMI. I don't care what an engine feels like when you floor it, I want it to pull as hard in casual driving where you rarely rev to even 3000rpms as it does at 6000rpms when you're driving with spirit.