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WTLW loser...



hehehe just kidding. Yeah, the rumor seems to be spreading fast so you know what that means!


It wont happen. If anything, 4-5k of the cars will get the LS6 left over parts from the Z06's to make room for the new ls2's. Only chance the GTO gets the LS2 next year is if all of the Holden cars go to the new Gen IV motors. If thats the case! Then we will see LS2's in the GTO! Price probably wont go up too much, but I can see a price increse. Not to mention the price of the new crap they are gunna add to make the purists happy. I can see this car tipping the scale at 35k.
 

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Yeah I think they are going to want to go higher in price too. That's just a crying shame. I wish GM would figure out that they could sell gobs and gobs of these at 25-27k and make money just off of volume.
 

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Originally posted by banzai79@Feb 14 2004, 11:36 PM
Yeah I think they are going to want to go higher in price too. That's just a crying shame. I wish GM would figure out that they could sell gobs and gobs of these at 25-27k and make money just off of volume.
Well, I guess they didnt sell that well. If they were, we wouldnt be having this converstation now would we? IF they would be selling "gobs" of these cars, then this would be a different story. Mustang sales consist of 70% V6 sales, not GT sales. GM sold less then 100k fbodies in its last year. thats total sales between v6 and v8 sales of both fbodies. If they sold well, they would have updated the chassis for the crash standards. Sales was the #1 killer for this car. If the fbodies were selling 200k+ a year, the the fbody would have gotten a new chassis, they would have found a new plant, they would have made stuff work.
 

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Originally posted by bigals87z28@Feb 14 2004, 08:09 PM
If the fbodies were selling 200k+ a year, the the fbody would have gotten a new chassis, they would have found a new plant, they would have made stuff work.
But instead we are driving old cars in hopes that we'll have the choice in buying a new one some day.
 

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Originally posted by demonspeed+Feb 15 2004, 01:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (demonspeed @ Feb 15 2004, 01:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigals87z28@Feb 14 2004, 08:09 PM
If the fbodies were selling 200k+ a year, the the fbody would have gotten a new chassis, they would have found a new plant, they would have made stuff work.
But instead we are driving old cars in hopes that we'll have the choice in buying a new one some day. [/b][/quote]
*crosses fingers* I hope all the rumors are true. I would be very up set that at next years NAIAS there is no coupe from GM. I think GM can steal some thunder from ford if they make a better looking affordable coupe. And as usual, the powertrain probably wont be upsetting.
 

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Uhm....the major flaw in your argument is that the GTO is not an F-body. People who haven't looked twice at GM for decades like the new GTO.
 

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The improvements should be not in the engine but in the styling. I think 350 HP is enough, at least untill they improve the way it looks. Just what I think... But I doubt the style will change much so, sure, drop an LS2 in there.
 

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Originally posted by b1ancardi@Feb 16 2004, 05:57 AM
well, its kinda obvious that it will get an LS2, thats what all the Holdens are getting.
Well, if Holden does start getting the Gen IV motors, then yes a lower output LS2 will be put into the GTO.
As for looks, its all in the eye of the person with the money. I know a lot of fbody guys that wouldnt get this car because its ugly and slow, but they said that if it did get the LS2, that they would overlook its style and get the car.
I think that if the GTO gets the LS2, it will be around 375-380hp. And GM is going to update the GTO next year with stupid scoops and a probably some other goofy purist stuff like body vents. The GTO isnt made for the masses, its made for people looking for luxury and a kick butt ride. I see this more as a M3 fighter, and the CTS-V as a M5 like fighter. The GTO wont have 400hp, as that would ruin the Vette is king attitude.
Personaly, I think the LS2 is very underrated. I think it was done to keep the Z06 owners happy that the new vette isnt faster. Just look at the engine, no way that it is packing less hp then the LS6.... as I digress
If Holden does get the Gen IV motor, then its only natural that it will end up in the GTO. I figure that since the Base V8 monaro is pushing around 300hp, the Gen IV motor will push probably over 350hp. The GTO will get more hp, probably on par with the Monaro, possible more like it is now. I hope that teh GTO doesnt get all done up like some 90's pontiac with scoops and vents. All I ask is for fender flares.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by bigals87z28@Feb 13 2004, 07:01 PM
WTLW loser...



hehehe just kidding. Yeah, the rumor seems to be spreading fast so you know what that means!


It wont happen. If anything, 4-5k of the cars will get the LS6 left over parts from the Z06's to make room for the new ls2's. Only chance the GTO gets the LS2 next year is if all of the Holden cars go to the new Gen IV motors. If thats the case! Then we will see LS2's in the GTO! Price probably wont go up too much, but I can see a price increse. Not to mention the price of the new crap they are gunna add to make the purists happy. I can see this car tipping the scale at 35k.
Am I bleeding, 'cause I think I've just been tagged! :D

Yeah, I know this rumour has been floating around for a while, but it's the first time I've seen it in print. Just one more piece of the puzzle.

What I'm curious about is if the new generation engine family is replacing the LS1/6, will the GTO (and CTS-V) get a version of the Corvette base motor as their base motors? Not a big deal for the Cadillac (400 hp either way), but a big jump for the GTO - even if it makes a little less power.

If it's part of am "up" model, like the Judge, well that would't be as much as a surprise.
 

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Originally posted by bigals87z28@Feb 16 2004, 08:44 AM
its ugly and slow

The GTO wont have 400hp, as that would ruin the Vette is king attitude. 
If a Cadillac sedan can use a Vette-equivalent engine at 400hp, why not the GTO? The GTO at least has a legendary performance reputation to justify Corvette levels of power. The CTS has no such reputation at this point. I were Corvette I'd rather a performance Pontiac get my heart than a "Son of Boss Hog" yuppie.

And, wait a minute here -- the GTO is ... UGLY? You're right! Dang that new and original styling. They should have done it retro. B)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
At 3700 lbs, even a 400 hp GTO isn't going to be much competition for the Vette - even a base C6 Corvette will still kill in in 0 - 60, 1/4 mile and top speed as it is aroud 500 lbs lighter.
 

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Originally posted by desmo9+Feb 16 2004, 05:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (desmo9 @ Feb 16 2004, 05:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigals87z28@Feb 16 2004, 08:44 AM
its ugly and slow

The GTO wont have 400hp, as that would ruin the Vette is king attitude. 
If a Cadillac sedan can use a Vette-equivalent engine at 400hp, why not the GTO? The GTO at least has a legendary performance reputation to justify Corvette levels of power. The CTS has no such reputation at this point. I were Corvette I'd rather a performance Pontiac get my heart than a "Son of Boss Hog" yuppie.

And, wait a minute here -- the GTO is ... UGLY? You're right! Dang that new and original styling. They should have done it retro. B) [/b][/quote]
The GTO isnt 49K, theres one reason.

Also the current GTO won't beat a vette, nor is it competing in the same class, so why should the new GTO compete with the new vette?
 

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Originally posted by Nocturn_Bird@Feb 18 2004, 02:50 AM


Also the current GTO won't beat a vette, nor is it competing in the same class, so why should the new GTO compete with the new vette?
Nobody said the GTO is competing directly with the Vette. The question was why the GTO cannot have base-Vette horsepower levels? What's your point?
 

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They should use the LS2 but just "detune" it so that
the glossy ads show a smaller number than those on
the Corvette glossy ads. The Corvette people will be
happy that they are still power king and the GTO folks
will be happy because they have a "Corvette's LS2".
 

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Originally posted by thehemi@Feb 23 2004, 03:04 PM
They should use the LS2 but just "detune" it so that
the glossy ads show a smaller number than those on
the Corvette glossy ads. The Corvette people will be
happy that they are still power king and the GTO folks
will be happy because they have a "Corvette's LS2".
thats what is most likley gunna happen.
If GM wants to put a little twist on the HP, they should make the HP raiting "389."
 

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Next GTO will be designed in Australia

Interesting excerpt:

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All Quiet On The Commodore Front
Sydney Morning Herald
February 20, 2004
Joshua Dowling



He came, he saw, he didn't announce global plans for Holden's mainstream model. But GM's product chief, Bob Lutz, did speak to Joshua Dowling.

The last time Bob Lutz visited Holden with senior executives from General Motors, he set the wheels in motion to export the Monaro to America. On this week's flying visit, General Motors' flamboyant product chief and his peers had a sneak preview of the all-new 2006 Commodore range, most of which is likely to be exported or assembled overseas.

Reports in overseas motoring media claim that General Motors is close to announcing the Commodore's global plans. But at a media briefing on Tuesday at Holden's proving ground on the outskirts of Melbourne, Lutz said a date was yet to be finalised.

"Everybody is hard at work and the assumption is it will all be approved, but [the corporation] likes to time these [announcements] for maximum effect," said Lutz. "Our friends in the communications department are trying to keep a lid on it for the time being."

Part of the reason for the delay in the announcement is that it affects many parties. The skeleton of the next Commodore is likely to be used in vehicles sold in the USA, Europe, Korea, China and the Middle East.

The 2006 Commodore will be the first vehicle to use the all-new structure. But, thanks to computer and satellite technology, Holden designers could style Commodore-based variants for GM affiliates - namely Saab, Cadillac, Buick and Pontiac - from their studios in Port Melbourne. Technology allows the three-dimensional designs and other vital statistics to be transmitted electronically to GM's design centres in the US and Europe.

"Once [the 2006 Commodore] is over we're going to have some spare engineering capacity," said Lutz. "With the technology

you can have Holden chief designer Mike Simcoe design a Cadillac, transfer the data

to Detroit, and then have designers in America mill the clay model there, polish it up and critique it. Nowadays it almost doesn't matter where the physical clay [model] is."

Saab's advanced design studio, he said, is currently working on a Cadillac project. "So, I think very definitely that Holden will be more involved in future global design." Lutz also stressed that Australian designers - not Americans - would design the next generation Pontiac GTO.

Meanwhile, the Free Trade Agreement between Australia and the US would not automatically lead to an export order for Holden utes, Lutz said, because Holden's factory in Adelaide is running at maximum capacity and negotiations with America's powerful United Auto Workers (UAW) union are yet to take place.
"We have a highly co-operative relationship with the UAW," Lutz said. "You don't want to disrupt it. It's like if I want to buy another airplane. I can absolutely do it and confront my wife and say it was my money, I decided I needed another airplane and she would say, 'Yes, dear', but there would be a disturbed relationship for a considerable period of time."

When asked if the UAW would accept more imported vehicles if the trade agreement with Australia was ratified, Lutz said: "Intellectually, it's understood. On an emotional level, it's hard to digest at a time when we don't have all our [factories] running at full capacity and we're still talking about having excess capacity in the US.

"Don't forget that, for Americans, the concept of the country existing in a global economy is much harder to accept than it is for Europeans and other people because we were like a world unto our own for so many decades."

Lutz said the UAW might be less opposed to imports once Cadillacs were exported to Europe: "It's a two-way street."
 

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More Hp and GTO great.
The limited production numbers are UAW, and CAFE.
The Fbody had to have V6 to balance the V8 for CAFE. If GM could sell more small high mileage cars maybe we could see even better HP and torque numbers for the GTO and other cars. For this reason I hope the Aveo, Malibu, and Cobalt are a huge success.
 
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