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Why doesn't GM EVER try to be get of their competition?? I read in the May addition Chevy High Performance thatthe Cobalt SS was rumored to get 240 HP, and of course they fall short and let the SRT-4 be king.
 

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Hopefully I can inject a bit of wisdom into this debate. I tried in the other Cobalt SS/SC thread, and it was completely ignored.

The Cobalt SS/SC will not only have a 4.05 final drive ratio, but it will also have huge 4-wheel disc brakes and a Nurburgring-tuned suspension. This is meant to be an all-around performance vehicle, not just a straight-liner, and I have no doubt it will succeed.

As for the power, the one thing that was NOT ignored, tuners can easily get 300 hp from an Ecotec, or 200+ without a blower. Unfortunately, just a bunch of hp does not an all-around performance car make.

Ghrankenstein
 

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Just wondering. If you got an SC/SS can you deleate that dopey wing on the trunk? Mitsu will let you do it on the EVO. I really like this version of the Cobalt but that wing is hedious.
 

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Originally posted by Ghrankenstein@Apr 4 2004, 08:18 PM
Hopefully I can inject a bit of wisdom into this debate. I tried in the other Cobalt SS/SC thread, and it was completely ignored.

The Cobalt SS/SC will not only have a 4.05 final drive ratio, but it will also have huge 4-wheel disc brakes and a Nurburgring-tuned suspension. This is meant to be an all-around performance vehicle, not just a straight-liner, and I have no doubt it will succeed.

As for the power, the one thing that was NOT ignored, tuners can easily get 300 hp from an Ecotec, or 200+ without a blower. Unfortunately, just a bunch of hp does not an all-around performance car make.

Ghrankenstein
even with the now blase nurburgring treatment it's still lacking in power the chassis had better off superb driving dynamics to make up for the short comings of the engine and drive train and what good is all that extra added horsepower if your engine's not able to rev in to the heart of it's power band for fear of blowing it up?

the truth is the SS cobalt has a lot of kinks to work out before it can even begin to challenge for the throne...

and i REALLY wanted this car to compete it was supposed to be a significant change over at GM and so far all i'm seeing is half assed efforts and as a GM enthusiast it enfuriates me
 

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Originally posted by yoblues@Apr 6 2004, 08:46 PM
Just wondering. If you got an SC/SS can you deleate that dopey wing on the trunk? Mitsu will let you do it on the EVO. I really like this version of the Cobalt but that wing is hedious.
Amen.
 

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The engine has a 12-pound psi Eaton M62 blower driven by a single-track belt, with an intercooled air exchanger to cool the air going to the blower. GM gussied up the engine's internals with a forged-steel crankshaft, heavy-duty aluminum pistons, and sodium-filled exhaust valves, which run cooler. There is also a block-mounted oil cooler, forged-steel connecting rods and a high-flow exhaust system. Wasmer predicts a 6.4-second 0-to-60-mph time and a 14.9-second quarter-mile.


And it in no way competes with the STi, and I would say it is a far cry from the WRX too. IT should be an okay little car, they should do there best to price it under 20K. That might help is become a little more attractive. I know GM has a 300hp version as a show car.

I have to say that I am very hard on GM, but I do like the direction they seem to be going. I am not the blind loyalist as some here seem to be. I do hope they get there act together and become very successfull... as I like my job ;)
 

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i agree geronimo it's a step int he right direction but it's to small a step...if the car were sold at 18 thousand it would be every bit of a phenomenon as the SRT-4 is...
 

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Lets hope that this pushes GM to go further. I don't think that you'll see a Camaro anytime soon, but we might see a Chevy on the GTO chassis.... maybe they'll even learn that Chevy should be priced under Pontiac.

Seems GM has forgoten to put a nice seperation between brands...

I think at 17-18K it would be a good deal, and quickly offer staged packages for it. Winning at the stoplights is a nice world of mouth sales bump.
 

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winning at the stolights is how you reach the younger generation that the cobalts aimed at...if it can't deliver on the goods it won't sell anything...

i think pontiac should be priced lower with an emphasis on sport and performance where as a chevy would be raw horsepower with a snippet of class
 

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According to the Colbalt specification page on the Chevrolet website, the non s/c SS will not be available with a manual transmission. I hope that it's just a misprint, otherwise it's just lame.

Colbal specs page
 

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Cargeek mode on:

I love the info availble on this message board but what's with the bitching and moaning. so it's a few hp short of the SRT-4 I mean with the planned yearly model year changes it will get better. autoweek allready mentioned a limited slip and more boost is in the works. the Z06 corvette started shorter on power but was still phenominal and when sales started to slide they upped it to 405. it will come. testing of the ion shows the bypass opening just as the power band starts to creep. the tuner cowed will figure out how to bypass um the bypass. and since the ION is really like 220 crank hp (underrated to 205) I could imagine in a lighter 2 door car it will only be better.

like the WRX which is quite sedate in stock form and for good reason, warranty issues. with minor modifications this car is capable of tremendous power. look at the internals. they have a SQUARE 86mm x 86mm 2.0 litre engine with WAY overbuilt internals. this is a tuners dream car. I respect chevrolet for releasing it and making it so cheap, and cheap to modify. a pully and bypass modifications will make boost fully adjustable by using the shorter stroke it should also be capable of high rpm operation, this is not a car to run stock vs. stock against the larger displacement SRT-4 it is waiting some creative souls to harness the power of this engine, and having been playing with a 210hp 9-3 with the turbo version of this engine this is just the begining. there is no reason that a tuner worth his weight in shineola can't get 300-400 hp (or whatever the limits of the compressor are) out of the 86mm square saab/SS ecotec.

as for the chassis and handling, I visited germanay last month and the astra this car is based off is amazing. it is not a econobox with a powerful engine. it is a truly world class car, quiet fast and refined. as is the epsolon saab I drive. handling will be as good if not better then the competition.

please stop complaining. love the car. be happy chevrolet can finally compete. and if you wanna go faster feel free to up the boost (accepting possable warranty problems as does SRT-4 staged upgrades)

My good friend has an SRT-4 in all it's Brutal goodness, but it's not a world class car. feel free I insist to drive a BMW (considered one of the best drivers cars in the world) then drive a saab and a SRT-4 and you will instantly know the diffrence. if the colbalt-SS is 3/4 as good as the astra it's a duplicate of it will be worth every penny and a great selling car. hey and mabye after durability testing and SS sales slow down you'll get your 2.4 SC model with AWD (wink wink) all I ask is stop daming a car before it's even released. it will be good and chevy will make it better. that's the SS way.

and marketing guru's are not stupid sell 100,000 SS's one year and make them better, faster, etc two years later when those original owners are ready to step up. look at the WRX, 2 years then STI next year the base WRX will be getting a spicy engine (to be named later) and STI will recieve upgrades the following year. the global program is good and developing world class cars. REAL honest to goodness world leaders

just look it's dead sexy and winning touring races throughout europe. and unlike asscar they actually use factory cars with minor modifications, just like the WRC, just you are never gonna see a 2wd WRC car.

on the track it's beating honda, nissan, VW etc. take a look at the results.
http://www.tripleeight.co.uk/start.asp

cargeek mode off:

 

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i have owned 2 cavaliers a 98 with a 2.4 and a 03 sport, i plan on selling my 03 sport to put in a order for a cobalt ss sc. i feel the new cobalt ss sc is a million tines better than the cavaleir and the noen srt-4 because... you see dodges track record its not that good, i heard a few weeks ago that dodge sent out a letter to everyone who bought a new dodge durango and asked them not to sue becasue they did not recall a problem that the suv was having wiht its drive train. i have a lot of family that drive dodge and they have had problems like no other with them. and the srt-4 with that much psi to to the engine and i think its not been touched the internals, i feel it wont last taht long before needing a good rebuild done to it. i also feel that gm has set us up with a great plat form to build off of, starting at 205hp it will be really easy to add more hp to it like someone said you can get 300+.. gm cars and trucks are quality and you know they will out last a dodge anyday. also i heard that honda and toyota helped design the car and the engine had been designed over in europe and had been around over there for years. so it has to be better than what most other 4 liter engines are. plus look at all the little things the seats the rims the interior they gave a lot for free that dodge does not offer... and i feel that turbos are ok but superchargers are better, if build right.

also you put a viper vs corvete z06 on a road track and see who wins, the viper might have more HP but the corvette had the better handalling. look at the races records of the Le Mans. dodge quit backing the viper because of money reasons and also they suck. and the corvette almost always comes in the tomp 10. so my final thoughts are you by cheap and get a lot of hp, most likely it was cheap parts used to make it, and it will cost you a ton to fix it... thats why they say "you pay for what you get."
 

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Treekiller, the problem with your argument is that Chevy started out behind the compitition. This car should have at least matched the SRT-4. Whats going to happen? In two years you get a better more improved one to finally match the SRT-4? Well Dodge or the rest of the compitition is not sitting on its butt. Your getting a Neon replacement soon, which means an improved SRT-4. Chevy should take the lead for a change and not always play catchup.
 

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The key to the Cobalt's success is its price tag. If its more than 20K(after rebates blah blah blah)......no one will take a second look. Chevy has to undercut the Civic and Corolla range. This year, they tried to sell the Cavalier for 18.5K with racing stripes etc.....but it still had the same 140 hp engine.

Also, compared to an SRT-4 it will lose in stock form, but I like all the extras(seats and MP3 and other add ons). In my opinion tuning is almost having the fun of owning a car, if the aftermarket supports the car, then competing with an SRT-4 isn't a taboo subject.

I'm hyped about this car, as imports should get stomped. Plus the fact that.....Honda Civic SI is a hatchback......Nissan and the SRT-4 are 4 drs, I just love the fact of a DECENT stock coupe being on the market.

Acura RSX Type S boasts a 200 hp rating....remember that's at 7400 RPM, where as from what I've read.....the Chevy has its 205hp at 5600 RPM.

I dunno........I have a feeling Chevy might overcharge for this despite them wanting to compete with Honda and Toyota.
 

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Originally posted by awalbert88@Apr 3 2004, 07:38 AM
12PSI and it's only making 200HP?  It better be throwing that to the wheels, or this thing's not gonna be received well by the tuner crowd.  I really thought the Ecotec motor was more potent than that.  In N/A trim, it must only be producing around 130hp.  The Ford Zetec engine family is making better power N/A with better fuel economy and lower emissions, but I guess that also comes from the fact that the Ecotec design is pretty old, whereas the Zetec is constantly being updated.

I can forgive the lack of a 6-speed, because it isn't really making enough power to justify anything more at this point.  I don't see a lot of potential for more than 250hp with the stock blower, and that's if the motor is properly built like that of the SRT-4.

If it's light enough and underrated, it might hang with a stock WRX.  But that's not very impressive for a tuner car anymore.  Does GM have a new 4cyl in the pipeline, or at least an overhaul for the Ecotec?  This should've had a s/c 2.4, which could've made it on par with the SRT-4.  Oh well, maybe GM will realize the importance of this market segment and create a proper performance group ala SVT and SRT.  And don't bother with the argument that they have Pontiac for that, because it's not even close to being the same thing.
You're right....

That 2.0L S/C powertrain has been dyno proven to put exactly 195HP to the wheels, which means this baby is making at least 240 at the fly... (Sport Compact magazine). Test of S/C Ion Redline.

And it will most likely make more seeing as though Chevy will likely compete with the Saturn Ion Redline for supremecy...

It will be lighter, (coupe not sedan) then the redline which will work wonders for 1/4 and slaloom times.

The 5 speed is engine specific to the 2.0 s/c package, so it does make the most out of it's power curve.

Through on a few bolt-ons (not likely from Japanese influenced makers) and this thing WILL be able to compete with the overrated Neon SRT, Focus SVT and Mazdaspeed Protege' dissapointments!!

Oh and you should check the NHRA sport compact winners, the EcoTec drag cavalier won a couple of races with it's "old" design.

This car is NOT going to get the credit it deserves just because it is an american designed car. ex: the Vibe GT V.S. Toyota Matrix.... one called an import revolution, the other "another Pontiac defeat" - and they both are the same powertrains!! I guess body moldings and badges make all the difference.

I'm getting mine next year, see you on the street..
 

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It's very funny to me that the Cobalt is to the SRT-4 as the Corvette is to the Viper. Chevy has been taking the "full performance car" approach while Dodge has just been cramming as much HP as it can in the Viper.

Oh, I almost forgot, for whoever was saying it has to deliver performance to be accepted by the 'tuner' crowd, I'm not so sure about that. I see a lot of them in old Civics with fart-cans, which I can pretty much guarantee are about as fast as crap in the wintertime :lol:
 

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I think the tuner crowed will like this car. It will have all the little gizmos in it that will make it a better car then the SRT4, and deliver serious performance for the dollar. I think the WRX is the the benchmark. If it can beat out the WRX in performance, then I think it will be accepted.
What Chevy needs to do is look at what is right and wrong with the Ion RL. the brakes are good and the power is there. Handling will need to be tightend up. I think this is gunna make a great car over the Si, RSX-S and Sentra.
Id love to test how much power one could squeeze out of that engine. All forged, built for forced induction. I hope that there is an aftermarket blower for it, like the KB blower for the 03 Cobra. Bolt on another 100hp!! And there are already turbo kits for the 2.2, it should work fine if you were to take off the blower and do your own work.
That would make for a good hot rod motor. Get a little MG, drop in the Saab 2.0T motor into it, crank up the boost! :bounce:
 

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For the price most import makers can't really match the Cobalt......stock.

I say that because there are plenty of aftermarket products.

The Acura RSX Types S has 200 hp....other than that the rest are sedans or they are underpowered.

I need some 5/6 speed coupes to enter the market. The car companies are trying to build the cars for 18-25 to transfer their friends etc. Well, if it comes down to a coupe or driving my friends around.......the coupe wins. Listen GM!
 

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Originally posted by Mestizo@May 17 2004, 05:39 AM
For the price most import makers can't really match the Cobalt......stock.

I say that because there are plenty of aftermarket products.

The Acura RSX Types S has 200 hp....other than that the rest are sedans or they are underpowered.

I need some 5/6 speed coupes to enter the market. The car companies are trying to build the cars for 18-25 to transfer their friends etc. Well, if it comes down to a coupe or driving my friends around.......the coupe wins. Listen GM!
Well, there is the Cobalt SS, then the G6 coupe and Ion.

as far as aftermarket, give me a smaller pulley, bigger injectors, little PCM upgrade, header and cat back and you could easily pull past most turbo civics.
 

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Originally posted by MalibuZ31@May 14 2004, 05:14 PM
The 5 speed is engine specific to the 2.0 s/c package, so it does make the most out of it's power curve
The tranny is matched very poorly actually. Its geared too high.
 
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