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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Since other automakers who are entering the diesel half ton market are doing so with a single engine option, why not go with two options for half ton trucks and two options for HD trucks and vans? GM already has a 2.8L diesel for the Colorado in the works. The 4.5L (or similar) is where they should focus the design work.

2.8L Duramax I-4 and the 4.5L Duramax V8 could work for half ton trucks. It's the fastest way GM can respond to Chrysler, Ford, and Nissan's innovations in the half ton truck market and would compliment a 2015/2016 MCE very nicely. Neither requires an Allison transmission, and the 4.5L would probably be ideal for the Express van and Cutaway and serve as a great diesel option in the HD trucks, vans, and cutaways for those buyers who find the 6.6L and Allison combo to be too costly or overkill for their needs. The 6.6L would always be there for those that need medium duty truck capability, but the 4.5L would be a more economical option assuming it's not a complete fuel hog.

Does anyone think the 2.8L I-4 would work with a half ton Silverado backed by an 8 speed auto? 200 hp, 370 lb-ft would be more powerful than the 6.5L turbodiesel sold in the Suburbans and C/K series in the 1990s with a 4 speed auto. I think a smaller, high mileage turbodiesel would be an attractive option for many half ton truck buyers who are more "weekend warriors" and don't need the capability of an HD truck or a large displacement V8 gas engine.

GM would answer Chrysler's 3.0L diesel, Nissan's 5.0L diesel, and Ford's Ecoboost with the 2.8L and 4.5L Duramax options for half ton truck buyers.

According to this 2009 report, the 4.5L diesel is ready for production "when the market is ready for it".

http://wardsauto.com/ar/duramax_ready_stephens_090715

Although the program is “on the shelf,” General Motors Co. Vice Chairman Tom Stephens says the auto maker’s Duramax 4.5L V-8 turbodiesel is ready when needed.

“The program is essentially complete and could be implemented whenever we choose to do that,” GM’s vice chairman-product development tells Ward’s in a phone interview.

The Duramax diesel was expected in GM’s ’10 light-duty fullsize pickup trucks, the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, and possibly future cross/utility and SUVs.
 

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I personally don't think it would produce enough power...the Ram Ecodiesel is already a very slow moving vehicle. There's something to be said about drive-ability.

That said, you could put a lawnmower engine in a half ton pickup and people would buy it if it hit 30 mpg in the EPA testing.
 

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I know that the 2.8 makes less power and torque than the ram 3.0 but with the lighter weight Chevy and possibly lighter weight engine,I don't tink it would make that much difference.
 

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I'm all for the 2.8 in a half ton to fulfill cafe requirements. That being said, I won't buy one. Now the 4.5 on the other hand, now that would be the engine to have. I feel like the 4.5 is a goo happy medium between the cummins 5.0 and vm motori 3.0
 

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Is it powerful enough? It's all relative to what "powerful" is. Powerful enough as a premium base engine? Yes. Powerful enough for an LTZ 4x4 Crew Cab towing a 9k lb trailer? No. It all depends on what people want it for and what the manufacturer is designing it for. Ask Ram what they designed the EcoDiesel 1500 for? Pickuptrucks.com tested one with a payload of 490lbs!!! You can't even load it with 4 passengers before maxing out the GVWR. It would be interesting to see what kind of payload and max tow capacity a Silverado with a 2.8 would have. That info could limit that engine to the regular and double cabs only.
 

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5.0L V8 diesel would be sufficient. Go big or go home. The ecodiesel is a slug, and so would this engine. This engine is even a slug in the small trucks.
 

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The inline four cylinder 2.8 TD has Hp/Tq figures that are 180/324 and would leave the Silverado hugely underpowered. If GM was to make a 5 cylinder version of that engineit would have Hp/Tq figures of 225/405. GM made both 4 and 5 cylinder versions of the 4.2 Atlas engines so they have experience with making different varrients of inline engines. Time to produce would be short and it could be done on the current production line
 

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I'm in agreement with the consensus here. The 2.8 wouldn't provide enough power in a full-size CC truck. The 4.5 is definitely the way to go for the full-size segment. The 2.8 should be solid in the mid-size trucks though, assuming you don't want a fast truck.

While the 2.8 does seem to produce numbers similar to the old Vortech 350 V8, engine power has progressed too much for people to be willing to step back down that far. That would be like releasing the new C7 Vette with the old LT1/4. People are use to power, and won't settle for a big drop in power unless it yields ridiculous MPGs or something equally as rewarding. The 2.8 won't be enough motor for the full-size trucks for that reason alone (20 years ago it would have been just fine).
 

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Terrible idea. People don't like $40K++ dog slow trucks. I feel that the full size Ram w/ the 3.0 is really pushing it, but at least being a V6 it has considerably more power density then the I4 2.8D.

The half ton needs about a 4.0-4.5L.

It's a mistake to believe that just continually making the engines smaller and smaller is going to always result in improved real world mpg. In the real world, once a small engine has to work real hard mpg and dependability drops off noticably.

My dream truck would be a half ton GMC, 4.5L diesel, 8-10 speed transmission, lightweight body thru the use of CF/ hi strength steel/ Al.
 

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I realize it's too late now, but why a 4.5L V-8 diesel? Why not a 5.0L V-6, essentially 3/4ths of the existing 6.7L Duramax? There could be a fair amount of commonality of parts between the two.

What am I missing?
 

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200 horsepower isn't enough? Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you buy a 200 horsepower 2013 Chevy Silverado a few months ago? Did the world change and nobody told me? Not to mention the 2.8 diesel would have an extra hundred foot pounds of low RPM torque over the older 4.3 liter gas V6.

Auto journalists that test a Corvette on Monday, an M3 on Tuesday, and a Ram Ecodiesel on Wednesday are going to whine about a 9.5 second 0-60 mph. I wouldn't care.
 

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I realize it's too late now, but why a 4.5L V-8 diesel? Why not a 5.0L V-6, essentially 3/4ths of the existing 6.7L Duramax? There could be a fair amount of commonality of parts between the two.

What am I missing?
The Duramax is 6.6L but I don't feel that a 5.0L would give enough differentiation in mpg, capability, and cost to warrant it's design. A modern 5.0 diesel would be considerably more capable than my old 7.3 PowerStroke. Just excessive for this application.

It's different for Nissan and their 5.0 Cummins because that will be their top tier truck w/ the most capability, and some mpg advantages.
 

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200 horsepower isn't enough? Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't you buy a 200 horsepower 2013 Chevy Silverado a few months ago? Did the world change and nobody told me? Not to mention the 2.8 diesel would have an extra hundred foot pounds of low RPM torque over the older 4.3 liter gas V6.

Auto journalists that test a Corvette on Monday, an M3 on Tuesday, and a Ram Ecodiesel on Wednesday are going to whine about a 9.5 second 0-60 mph. I wouldn't care.
um, ya there was a 200hp engine for sale, but if I remember correctly, they didn't cost an extra 3-5 grand over the base engine. Also, despite being the cheapest engine choice no one bought them, so you think someone will pay a premium for an engine with no power?
 

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Having owned the VM Motori 2.8L crd in a new 06 Liberty,I can say that it was excellent.All diesels are somewhat slower then it's gas counterpart when launching off the line.....bfd.I am waiting for the Colorado diesel already knowing what an excellent powerplant it already is.Would it be good in the 1500 silvey? No.Would the 3.0L VM be good in the silvey? Hell yeah it would,but not for those who are looking for 'car performance'.It seem you 'car guys' are only impressed with HP numbers and most diesels are about torque,and lots of it at very low rpms.Towing/hauling/high mpg's etc.That is why any diesel offering in a 1/2 ton will be an OPTION,not mandatory.
 

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Having owned the VM Motori 2.8L crd in a new 06 Liberty,I can say that it was excellent.All diesels are somewhat slower then it's gas counterpart when launching off the line.....bfd.I am waiting for the Colorado diesel already knowing what an excellent powerplant it already is.Would it be good in the 1500 silvey? No.Would the 3.0L VM be good in the silvey? Hell yeah it would,but not for those who are looking for 'car performance'.It seem you 'car guys' are only impressed with HP numbers and most diesels are about torque,and lots of it at very low rpms.Towing/hauling/high mpg's etc.That is why any diesel offering in a 1/2 ton will be an OPTION,not mandatory.
How can you say the 3.0 is about towing when it's rated to tow less than the hemi? Better MPGs or not, I'm not paying more for a slower engine that can't tow. That and now they're saying that with the diesel the payload is down, so much to a pout that with 4 passengers you only have a few hundred lbs left.
 

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Its an inline 4. In a half ton truck. Have fun being a man with no balls.
 
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What is up with the absolutes in this tread? "NO" power. "CAN'T" tow. Because one engine can't tow or have as much hp as another engine doesn't mean it has NO power or CAN'T tow. And we are talking about an 2.8 with power that we can only guess won't have less power than it's current oversea numbers and a hypothetical 8-speed transmission that could possibly back up this engine. So we can guess, lower (higher numerical) 1st and 2nd gears for better acceleration.

Let's get back to the original question of the original post. More than like, yes, it has enough power to function as a truck in more than a regular cab/short bed stripped truck. Hell, MB Sprinter Vans come with a smaller diesel with 7 speeds now. Not to long ago they came with a diesel with roughly the same power the current 2.8 moving over 6K lbs empty. The problem that you are seeing now is enthusiast want their vehicles made to order and anything less is crap or worthless to them.
 

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Its an inline 4. In a half ton truck. Have fun being a man with no balls.
Really, what does this mean? Are be talking truck nuts?

I have an 87 Dodge D100 and I'm sure this setup would have more "balls" than my truck now. Are we to compare this hypothetical truck and powertrain with an 87 Dodge? No. Are we to compare this hypothetical truck and powertrain to your HD truck? No. How about others 1/2 tons with larger engines? Why? Just because it doesn't have enough "balls" for you doesn't mean it doesn't for others.
 

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Alright, maybe saying it can't tow is an exaggeration. Saying it has no power is an exaggeration.

My main point is, that I would not pay extra for less! This isn't the base engine we're talking about here. It's a 2-3 grand option if not more. Not to mention, in an article on here a few weeks ago it's been proven that vehicle reliability suffers with these underpowered 4 cylinder engines. A diesel may or may not be immune to this, but it said that just because these 4 cyl engines produce the same power as bigger engine of years ago, they're still under more stress. Bottom line, gimme a 5.3v8 over the 2.8td and gimme a hemi over the 3.0td. More power, less $$$.
 
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