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Not sure whether it is a production prioritization issue plus pent up demand, but the Bronco Sport may be cannibalizing Escape sales.
 

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Bottom of the sales charts is a bit like the poor ole Japanese soldier in WW2 on a remote island after after the war had finished, still carried fighting on, a bit like the old Lincoln town car it kept battling on years out of date still selling but neglected by Ford in favour J/LR that got all the R & D money, it still soldiered on right until the bitter end till when the Ford family took it out round the back and shot it like a clapped out trusty ole cart horse. Anybody that still wants a brand new Pontiac might still find a few in Japan today, the odd one or two were still getting sold years after the brand sadly died a death.

Dodge Dart US sales
2018 sales 389
2019 sales 15
2020 sales 7
2021 sales 1

Dodge Dart should hit 2 sales by the end of the year, it might need a good hoover out to remove all the dust, at least one member of the Dodge Dart sales team will eating turkey at Christmas this year BlackGTP, there could more sales to come yet?

Jeep Patriot 4 sales things move slowly on the Stellantis showrooms Fiat 500 sales 8 sales, Chrysler 200 sale 2, the Patriot might be coming back in Europe as new electric only Jeep more Suzuki Jimmy in size.
I'll take a 5 year old new Dart with $20k off! :D

It is interesting how long it can take to move the final few of an old model. I assume some dealers won't put much on the hood to get rid of one. Guess it's how we read stories about a 50 year old "new" car found in the back of a dealer that's never been sold.
 

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Based on the data Oldsmobile stopped shared in post #15, in Q2 2021 Chevy Malibu was outsold by:
  • All other midsize sedans, including Passat, Legacy, and Mazda6
  • All other Chevy models currently in production except Camaro
  • Porsche Macan
  • Chrysler 300
  • Hyundai Ioniq
  • Audi Q8
GM, just put a fork in it and discontinue Chevy Malibu after the current model year. sdotjeezy wasn't exaggerating when using the adjectives "sad" and "embarrassing" to describe Malibu.
But, you are assuming there was a lot of stock out there to sell. What if there was already minimal stock? Though I think unlikely, one could also make the assumption that this proves how popular the Malibu is that it sold out with not much remaining stock going into 2021/Q2.

My guess is GM has prioritized putting the ever so scarce chips into high profit trucks, etc. and none going to the Malibu, leaving dealers with no stock to sell. If you can see a lot of new Malibu's in dealers stock, unsold even in this environment, then you can say they are "sad" as no one wants them.
 

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"just over 100,000" BEVs out of 4.4 million units = 2.0% market share.

Still not seeing 100% share in 9 more years.
 

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While an article like this is fun to talk about, is there anyone who thinks that this years sales numbers on anything................... have any basis in reality??

To me, last year and this year are a write off on sales stats.................. and I don't care who is "winning." There are forces outside of the norm that make all of this fun to talk about, and that's about it. Our local Chevy / Dodge dealership finally got some stock in. Looks like a batch of "fleet" trucks. All white bottom barrel CC's and extra cabs. I'm sure they will be gone quickly. It's like people are going to dealerships and picking a number, and whenever ANYTHING comes in, their number is called and they are given the vehicle that matches that number. Chevy folks are buying Ram / Dodge, Ford folks are buying both, etc. Basically, they are buying what is available.

It is truly odd, but fascinating to watch.
 

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While an article like this is fun to talk about, is there anyone who thinks that this years sales numbers on anything................... have any basis in reality??

To me, last year and this year are a write off on sales stats.................. and I don't care who is "winning." There are forces outside of the norm that make all of this fun to talk about, and that's about it. Our local Chevy / Dodge dealership finally got some stock in. Looks like a batch of "fleet" trucks. All white bottom barrel CC's and extra cabs. I'm sure they will be gone quickly. It's like people are going to dealerships and picking a number, and whenever ANYTHING comes in, their number is called and they are given the vehicle that matches that number. Chevy folks are buying Ram / Dodge, Ford folks are buying both, etc. Basically, they are buying what is available.

It is truly odd, but fascinating to watch.
I've noticed that here as well with new inventory coming in. But..... they have tons of lightly used stuff they keep bringing in, trying to peddle because there is no real new inventory to be had. And all of that at inflated prices as well, very weird indeed.
 

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While an article like this is fun to talk about, is there anyone who thinks that this years sales numbers on anything................... have any basis in reality??

To me, last year and this year are a write off on sales stats.................. and I don't care who is "winning." There are forces outside of the norm that make all of this fun to talk about, and that's about it. Our local Chevy / Dodge dealership finally got some stock in. Looks like a batch of "fleet" trucks. All white bottom barrel CC's and extra cabs. I'm sure they will be gone quickly. It's like people are going to dealerships and picking a number, and whenever ANYTHING comes in, their number is called and they are given the vehicle that matches that number. Chevy folks are buying Ram / Dodge, Ford folks are buying both, etc. Basically, they are buying what is available.

It is truly odd, but fascinating to watch.
the F 150 being the LOWEST selling US branded pick up "proves" that we are in "unusual" market conditions
I would assume a LOT of the sedan uptick is people that leased there car and HAD TO GET a replacement and finding prices way up and inventory way down on CUVS so they go sedan as it was the "ONLY" choice OR better then the SUV they would have to settle for IE equinox intender having to take a TRAX OR a Malibu
 

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the F 150 being the LOWEST selling US branded pick up "proves" that we are in "unusual" market conditions
I would assume a LOT of the sedan uptick is people that leased there car and HAD TO GET a replacement and finding prices way up and inventory way down on CUVS so they go sedan as it was the "ONLY" choice OR better then the SUV they would have to settle for IE equinox intender having to take a TRAX OR a Malibu
That wouldn't surprise me.
 

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I see these numbers drastically changing for the 3rd quarter! I don't know about you, but around here just about ALL new car dealers, volume dealers, are bare! Maybe a few new cars and trucks. I've never seen anything like it, even during a strike! You won't be able to say who's the sales leader in any category cause there are no vehicles to be had!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
While an article like this is fun to talk about, is there anyone who thinks that this years sales numbers on anything................... have any basis in reality??

To me, last year and this year are a write off on sales stats.................. and I don't care who is "winning." There are forces outside of the norm that make all of this fun to talk about, and that's about it. Our local Chevy / Dodge dealership finally got some stock in. Looks like a batch of "fleet" trucks. All white bottom barrel CC's and extra cabs. I'm sure they will be gone quickly. It's like people are going to dealerships and picking a number, and whenever ANYTHING comes in, their number is called and they are given the vehicle that matches that number. Chevy folks are buying Ram / Dodge, Ford folks are buying both, etc. Basically, they are buying what is available.

It is truly odd, but fascinating to watch.
Fleet is true, however. You cannot define Fleet Deals as toss away/Number Grabbing deal. I have sold a Major Fleet one at Full MSRP this year. I had the vehicle, they needed the vehicle. Ford has cut their Fleet support $$$$'s by 75%, Dealers have cut their $$$$'s off. Rental Companies have even been purchasing Used Vehicles to try to get by.
 

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the F 150 being the LOWEST selling US branded pick up "proves" that we are in "unusual" market conditions
I would assume a LOT of the sedan uptick is people that leased there car and HAD TO GET a replacement and finding prices way up and inventory way down on CUVS so they go sedan as it was the "ONLY" choice OR better then the SUV they would have to settle for IE equinox intender having to take a TRAX OR a Malibu
I’m not convinced of that theory. Nobody HAS to turn in the car, it would be smarter to buy the car at the end of a lease if you can’t find/negotiate a fair price on a new vehicle. Why give up a vehicle you know the history of and settle for a different vehicle? Especially when the buyout price is already in the contract. Even if u don’t want the car anymore, in these times, u could just turn around and resell your car for cost or above. The dealers must be pressing hard for customers to turn in leases as they can resell those cars for more than they could have otherwise.
 

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Oil fuel prices dropped massively during the pandemic, that has driven the rising SUV boom to new heights, oil prices have started creeping back up over $70 a barrel, rising oil prices could be the black swan that might change things as the black liquid gold stuff gets harder to find more costly to extract with time. Sadly it looks like the Japanese & Korean's will be only ones to benefit as they have not abandoned the sedan market yet. It surprises me to see the Korean car makers slowly climbing up the US brand sales charts in Q2, with cars like the Elantra driving that .
H/K sales have benefited as much from a full supply of Palisade/Telluride sales as they have from the new Tucson, Elantra, Sorento, Carnival and K5 (including hybrids for the Tucson, Elantra and Sorento; also a hybrid for the Carnival is in the works).
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Going forward, will benefit from increased sales the forthcoming new Sportage (including hybrid), Santa Cruz (Hyundai needs to stick the Tucson hybrid powertrain in the SC) and electrics like the Ioniq 5 and EV6.

For the past 7-8 months, H/K has outsold Honda and with the forthcoming models, including for Genesis - won't be too long before we see HMG outsell Honda/Acura.

So, it hasn't just been an increase in sedan sales that has pushed H/K above Honda, as Honda has also been seeing strong sales for the Civic and Accord.

Don't think rising gas prices have hurt CUV/SUV (even minivan) sales much, if at all.

Most buyers who switch from sedans to CUVs go down a segment size - i.e. from an Accord to the CR-V and not the Pilot (sales are up significantly for the Pilot) where the fuel economy is pretty even.

And there are plenty of hybrid options when it comes to CUVs - RAV4, Tucson, CR-V, Escape, Santa Fe, Sorento, Highlander, etc.

And as mentioned above - sales of 3-row CUVS (even those without a hybrid option) like the Telluride, Palisade, Pilot, etc. are booming.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I’m not convinced of that theory. Nobody HAS to turn in the car, it would be smarter to buy the car at the end of a lease if you can’t find/negotiate a fair price on a new vehicle. Why give up a vehicle you know the history of and settle for a different vehicle? Especially when the buyout price is already in the contract. Even if u don’t want the car anymore, in these times, u could just turn around and resell your car for cost or above. The dealers must be pressing hard for customers to turn in leases as they can resell those cars for more than they could have otherwise.
Which all works fine, if the Customer wants to Walk until this shortage blows over. Most don't want to.

Here is the issue. Lease End Buyouts are under Market Values right now. By a lot. But New Vehicle Discounts are Nonexistent. End results are the same.

Before a $50,000 vehicle had $7000 Cash on the Hood. Making it $42,000. A 5 year old trade was worth $15,000. That equals $28,000 for 5 years of driving.

Today a $50,000 vehicle has $0 Cash on the Hood. Making it $50,000. A 5 year old trade was worth $21,000. That equals $29,000 for 5 years of driving. Leased or not, the trade values are up.
 

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Which all works fine, if the Customer wants to Walk until this shortage blows over. Most don't want to.

Here is the issue. Lease End Buyouts are under Market Values right now. By a lot. But New Vehicle Discounts are Nonexistent. End results are the same.

Before a $50,000 vehicle had $7000 Cash on the Hood. Making it $42,000. A 5 year old trade was worth $15,000. That equals $28,000 for 5 years of driving.

Today a $50,000 vehicle has $0 Cash on the Hood. Making it $50,000. A 5 year old trade was worth $21,000. That equals $29,000 for 5 years of driving. Leased or not, the trade values are up.
the "smart" money would get a loan and buy out the LEASE but most "CONSUMERS" want a NEW one and with higher prices and LOWER inventory I can see sedans getting a "boost"
EX with hire car companies cancelling orders early on and NOW resorting to USED to get ANY stock could also be a LATE term bump for sedans as they NEED TO GET product to rent out
 
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